Power Steering Upgrade Problem - clearance on pump pulley

[adam quantrill]

Hi,

our good friend Jim (jchase) is trying to fit a PAS rack and pump to his 350i.

He tried the pump on yesterday and it seemed to fit OK, belt on and was able to tension it.

So today he's taken off the manual rack and now finds that the pump pulley fouls the PAS rack - cos it's thicker.

I seem to remember on my old white wedge that the PAS pulley sometimes touched the rack and wore a couple of grooves in it. I used to jack up the engine and then tighten the engine mounts to get the maximum clearance but it was still quite tight.

Does anyone know if:

a) the bracket for the pump is different to an SDi one?
b) the pump pulley is smaller? (so giving more clearance)

at the moment the interference is about 10mm so it's quite a lot.

[wedg1e]

Where's he put the pump? On my car it's high up on the left; I know some are low down, maybe that's the problem?
IIRC the 'high' version uses a TVR-modified PAS bracket bolted (wonkily) to the front of the LH cylinder head.

I'd have thought a different diameter pulley would alter the system flow/ pressure...?

[adam quantrill]

I've never seen a high-up version. Both my old white wedge and my 400SX had them low-down, and I think Jim's is as well.

I suppose you could say that is the problem, but other wedges seem to have solved it.

[pistolar]

I know ... i know ...

One of my 400s has the low mounted Sdi pressed steel type brackets. The fixing holes have been double drilled ( looking like the number 8 ). This then raises the pump. Its still bloody close, i looked at it for a long time thinking it was wrong, just cos it looks wrong doesnt mean that TVR didnt do it that way.

[adam quantrill]

Cheers Neil, yes there does look as though there is enough meat to drill another set of holes lower down on the bracket and raise it up, probably by 10 to 15mm. Might be enough if you jack up the engine as well.

[jchase]

Hi all,

Thanks Adam, I've been deprived of internet access this week. The story so far:

Measured manual rack, and PAS rack - the PAS rack is 35mm higher! this means my interference fit would be 35mm, since the pump pulley just touches the manual rack.

Now I have obtained a PAS bracket from an SD1 - not enough clearance, and got a PAS bracket from a TR8, but same story. I found some pictures of a 'naked' 350 and the PAS pump is higher up, and pushed forward in front of the Left Hand head. The pump is then driven by a double pulley off the water pump, whereas the lower version runs off the crank pulley. Now, TVR cannot supply the high up bracket, and I have no idea where to get the wierd water pump double pulley. Tried douglas valley, and TVRcarparts, but no Joy.

Anyone got a bracket and pulley for sale?? (Help - parking at the new place is really tight, and is getting quite frustrating. Any ideas would be good.

-Jim

[SEvans]

Jim, what about making your own bracket? This is what I am having to do to mount the P/S pump on the 2.0L Cosworth block. Using the original wasn't an option as the pulley was hitting the chassis.

[number 7]

Jim, not sure how much help this is likely to be, but my 400 has the high mounted pas pump, driven from the water pump pulley. It's not a double pulley, it's two very similar pulleys (I'd say identical but I can't measure that easily) with their protruding mounting faces together, and just bolted through to the water pump spindle flange.

7.

[wedg1e]

jchase said:

Hi all, Thanks Adam, I've been deprived of internet access this week. The story so far: Measured manual rack, and PAS rack - the PAS rack is 35mm higher! this means my interference fit would be 35mm, since the pump pulley just touches the manual rack. Now I have obtained a PAS bracket from an SD1 - not enough clearance, and got a PAS bracket from a TR8, but same story. I found some pictures of a 'naked' 350 and the PAS pump is higher up, and pushed forward in front of the Left Hand head. The pump is then driven by a double pulley off the water pump, whereas the lower version runs off the crank pulley. Now, TVR cannot supply the high up bracket, and I have no idea where to get the wierd water pump double pulley. Tried douglas valley, and TVRcarparts, but no Joy. Anyone got a bracket and pulley for sale?? (Help - parking at the new place is really tight, and is getting quite frustrating. Any ideas would be good. -Jim

My spare V8 has a PAS bracket on it, but it'd probably need cutting and rewelding to suit... IIRC that's how TVR did it.

[leorest]

Just had a look an mine(350 series 2 with PAS) There is just enough room to fit my pinkie between the pulley and the rack. I would guess this equates to about 10mm. If there is any measurement or photo that would help then let me know.









Sits back and waits for pinkie measurement jokes.....

[350zwelgje]

As conversions from manual to PAS on wedges seem difficult, perhaps someone tried fitting an electrical pump to drive the PAS. Could perhaps be a last resort type of solution.
Don't know myself as I am happy with my manual non-PAS. Steering is only impossible while standing still, just on the move it is ok and very light (like you have PAS) over 20-25 miles an hour. But tyre size, pressure and alignment are the parameters. As when I got the wedge parking was impossible, and now it is ok for me.

Rob

[jchase]

Hi all,

Many thanks, indeed It looks like two pulleys bolted back to back. I've made measurements from the photo I have, but any more would be much appreciated. I have a MAGs welder so I am going to make the bracket myself, by cutting up an SD1 bracket. Anyone know the size of belt for the High up PS pump - this would help quite a bit.

-Jim

[number 7]

jchase said:

Hi all, Many thanks, indeed It looks like two pulleys bolted back to back. I've made measurements from the photo I have, but any more would be much appreciated. I have a MAGs welder so I am going to make the bracket myself, by cutting up an SD1 bracket. Anyone know the size of belt for the High up PS pump - this would help quite a bit. -Jim

On mine its a Unipart 10863, 9.5mm wide. Let me know if you need the length of the belt, and I'll try to measure - not easy in situ.

7.

[adam quantrill]

I think we should just use a piece of string to get the length, once the pump is in place. Then the problem becomes just "how long is a piece of string?".

[jchase]

What would be really helpful is a picture of the bracket used on the high-up PAS system. I just found some old pictures, and they all have the two pulleys back to back, which is really annoying as I just spent ages getting mine spaced with many washers in the same direction - d'oh. I think that an 850mm belt should work, at lest it did on the low down position, and getting any other belts is a bit tricky.

-Jim

[number 7]

jchase said:

What would be really helpful is a picture of the bracket used on the high-up PAS system. I just found some old pictures, and they all have the two pulleys back to back, which is really annoying as I just spent ages getting mine spaced with many washers in the same direction - d'oh. I think that an 850mm belt should work, at lest it did on the low down position, and getting any other belts is a bit tricky. -Jim

Jim, can't help you with the pic. of my bracket, but to be honest, I think you'd be better of actually looking at one on a car. I don't know if you realise, but two of the bracket mounting bolts pass through the water pump and the timing cover, so dimensions of the bracket are fairly critical to avoid twisting it or not pulling up the water pump/timing cover tightly enough. You're welcome to look at my set up, but as I'm in Kent it's not exactly close. Maybe there's someone closer to you with the high mount.

7.

[adam quantrill]

Jim, look at page H9 of the parts catalogue - shows the official high-up bracket. Note that there is only the square steel beam holding the pump in place - welded to that 3-hole plate on the front of the engine. No sign of any water pump/front cover bolt - I'd leave that alone if I were you.

So I reckon it would be fairly reasy to weld up something with the bracket you have.

[number 7]

adam quantrill said:

Jim, look at page H9 of the parts catalogue - shows the official high-up bracket. Note that there is only the square steel beam holding the pump in place - welded to that 3-hole plate on the front of the engine. No sign of any water pump/front cover bolt - I'd leave that alone if I were you. So I reckon it would be fairly reasy to weld up something with the bracket you have.

Mmmmm...H9 is nothing like my high bracket - and it does say for LHD models. Still, if you can avoid using the long bolts through the water pump and tming cover, so much the better.

7.

[wedg1e]

I took a pic earlier of the PAS bracket on mine, but with the bonnet in the way I couldn't get a good angle I'll post it a bit later.

[jchase]

Wedg1e ! thats fantastic you are a star! Pictures are the way forward. I'm having trouble drilling the three holes on the support plate at the moment, as my drill press doesn't have a bench to clamp it to. -Jim