Fuel problem...
Discussion
Unfortunatly, by 400 let me down today....the RAC didnt seem to surprised when i said i was driving a TVR...ANYHOW.....!!!
Bottom line is that i was driving along, going down hill using the engine braking (to hear all the Snap Crackle and POP!) and put my foot down and nothing happened...engine had no power ad died instantly.
There is spark and tries to fire but no fuel...the pump is only about 6 months old so i doubt it is that which has gone wrong. Anyhow, the pump isnt working but the bible is a little vague, as it tends to be in places, on fuel pumps!
It says there is a 'Engine Run Sensor' or 'Safety control relay' which cuts power to the pump, so does anyone know where this is??
Also, any ideas what else it could be?
Thanks all!!!
Bottom line is that i was driving along, going down hill using the engine braking (to hear all the Snap Crackle and POP!) and put my foot down and nothing happened...engine had no power ad died instantly.
There is spark and tries to fire but no fuel...the pump is only about 6 months old so i doubt it is that which has gone wrong. Anyhow, the pump isnt working but the bible is a little vague, as it tends to be in places, on fuel pumps!
It says there is a 'Engine Run Sensor' or 'Safety control relay' which cuts power to the pump, so does anyone know where this is??
Also, any ideas what else it could be?
Thanks all!!!
Probably a fuel pump relay, or one of the fuses.
To diagnose the problem take a fused wire from the battery direct to the fuel pump (on mine you need a bigger-than-standard spade connector; your AA bloke should have one). If the engine then runs, you know you have a simple power supply problem, this will also get you home. If not, you have a more general engine management problem.
To diagnose the problem take a fused wire from the battery direct to the fuel pump (on mine you need a bigger-than-standard spade connector; your AA bloke should have one). If the engine then runs, you know you have a simple power supply problem, this will also get you home. If not, you have a more general engine management problem.
Similar thing happened to mine a couple of years back. Turned out to be debris from the (newly resealed) fuel tanks getting into the fuel pump. Got through three pumps that way before having a secondary filter put inline just ahead of it.
And it always stopped without warning in the most unbelievable of places!
And it always stopped without warning in the most unbelievable of places!
Matt
Theres a small black box houses the inertia switch on the bulkhead next to the brake servo. Also its got a plunger with a little black knob. This is the manual switch - pull out to shut fuel off and in for usual position. (useful when you want to turn engine over without fuel delivery)
Just added - I think maybe this device only fitted to late hot wire models though
>> Edited by The Colonel on Sunday 5th March 20:10
Theres a small black box houses the inertia switch on the bulkhead next to the brake servo. Also its got a plunger with a little black knob. This is the manual switch - pull out to shut fuel off and in for usual position. (useful when you want to turn engine over without fuel delivery)
Just added - I think maybe this device only fitted to late hot wire models though
>> Edited by The Colonel on Sunday 5th March 20:10
cheers guys..some ideas for me to try there!
Mines a flapper 400, so i dont know if there will be this 'magic' switch by the servo but ill have a look!
It could be crud from the fueltank...i did run quite low the on fuel on saturday but i wouldnt have thought that would be it...never know though.
its so annoying that something so simple can stop the whole show!!
Mines a flapper 400, so i dont know if there will be this 'magic' switch by the servo but ill have a look!
It could be crud from the fueltank...i did run quite low the on fuel on saturday but i wouldnt have thought that would be it...never know though.
its so annoying that something so simple can stop the whole show!!
If it comes to it then ill try checking the AFM...i think its no power, im working at home today and being very restrained and staying inside as opposed to being outside tinkering with the wedge....
Ill get on it later though!!
I'm sure its going t just be a power issue..just a case of finding it!
Ill get on it later though!!
I'm sure its going t just be a power issue..just a case of finding it!
The entire injection system only has two relays and one diode pack (looks like a relay but it's red).
One relay is fed from the ignition switch and powers the whole system, the other relay feeds the fuel pump... but only when the kill switch in the AFM tells it to*.
If you can identify the pump relay you can link terminals 30 and 87 and the pump should run when you turn the ignition.
If it doesn't, you have a pump fault or the supply or earth to it are missing.
If it does, it's probably the fuel pump relay itself (swap it for any other relay on the board) or, VERY rarely, the diode pack. AFM kill switch is still a possibility.
It could even be that the heat caused by the pump drawing current through the relay has melted the plastic relay base and the terminals have dropped out...
*Edit: or when cranking...
>> Edited by wedg1e on Monday 6th March 15:12
One relay is fed from the ignition switch and powers the whole system, the other relay feeds the fuel pump... but only when the kill switch in the AFM tells it to*.
If you can identify the pump relay you can link terminals 30 and 87 and the pump should run when you turn the ignition.
If it doesn't, you have a pump fault or the supply or earth to it are missing.
If it does, it's probably the fuel pump relay itself (swap it for any other relay on the board) or, VERY rarely, the diode pack. AFM kill switch is still a possibility.
It could even be that the heat caused by the pump drawing current through the relay has melted the plastic relay base and the terminals have dropped out...
*Edit: or when cranking...
>> Edited by wedg1e on Monday 6th March 15:12
wedg1e said:
The entire injection system only has two relays and one diode pack (looks like a relay but it's red).
One relay is fed from the ignition switch and powers the whole system, the other relay feeds the fuel pump... but only when the kill switch in the AFM tells it to.
If you can identify the pump relay you can link terminals 30 and 87 and the pump should run when you turn the ignition.
If it doesn't, you have a pump fault or the supply or earth to it are missing.
If it does, it's probably the fuel pump relay itself (swap it for any other relay on the board) or, VERY rarely, the diode pack. AFM kill switch is still a possibility.
It could even be that the heat caused by the pump drawing current through the relay has melted the plastic relay base and the terminals have dropped out...
Last fault I had on the 350 was terminal loose on the back of the main relay which feeds the ecu. Spark but no injectors fireing. Which is why I told SilverBack to be careful replaceing the relay board.
im glad you explianed the difference between the relays and the 'Red one!'
I was curious as to what this was! I almost certain its the pump, its not buzzing so it must be. Just seems strange that it went so suddenly, hence why i recon it must be electrics...
My multimeter has run out of juice so getting a new battery tomorrow (nothing seems to have a single 9v nowadays!) then i can get testing...I miss my wedge already..!
I was curious as to what this was! I almost certain its the pump, its not buzzing so it must be. Just seems strange that it went so suddenly, hence why i recon it must be electrics...
My multimeter has run out of juice so getting a new battery tomorrow (nothing seems to have a single 9v nowadays!) then i can get testing...I miss my wedge already..!
Tried a few things and now lost!
Fuel pump is not getting any power. (tried pump with a spare car battery - worked fine)
Voltmeter shows about 0.1 volts with ignition on at the pump end terminals, and zero with ignition off.
Took out the pump relay (think I got the right one, one in from the far right, bottom line) connected 30 and 87. No change. Tested 30 and 87 - 12 volts all ok.
fiddled with the flapper (in case it was stuck) didnt seem to be, nor made any change.
So, problem is no power to pump. So its got to be a silly thing, loose wire etc somewhere?? Only thing not changed is the red diode pack. Will order one of those.
Any other ideas??
Fuel pump is not getting any power. (tried pump with a spare car battery - worked fine)
Voltmeter shows about 0.1 volts with ignition on at the pump end terminals, and zero with ignition off.
Took out the pump relay (think I got the right one, one in from the far right, bottom line) connected 30 and 87. No change. Tested 30 and 87 - 12 volts all ok.
fiddled with the flapper (in case it was stuck) didnt seem to be, nor made any change.
So, problem is no power to pump. So its got to be a silly thing, loose wire etc somewhere?? Only thing not changed is the red diode pack. Will order one of those.
Any other ideas??
matt-man said:
Tried a few things and now lost!
Fuel pump is not getting any power. (tried pump with a spare car battery - worked fine)
Voltmeter shows about 0.1 volts with ignition on at the pump end terminals, and zero with ignition off.
Took out the pump relay (think I got the right one, one in from the far right, bottom line) connected 30 and 87. No change. Tested 30 and 87 - 12 volts all ok.
fiddled with the flapper (in case it was stuck) didnt seem to be, nor made any change.
So, problem is no power to pump. So its got to be a silly thing, loose wire etc somewhere?? Only thing not changed is the red diode pack. Will order one of those.
Any other ideas??
You SURE the pump has a GOOD earth? If not it'll look like there's no 12v feed at the terminals because your meter gas no earth reference. Try it with the meter '-' probe on a bit of clean chassis.
How about the earth connections at the back of the lefthand cylinder head? The injection system is earthed here...
'Course it could be you had the wrong relay when you linked 30 and 87?
not to clear if youve know about this but on wiring diagrams ive seen there is a contact built into the afm that only passes power to the pump when the engine is running or cranking ie when the flapper is open. also dont burn your starter out like i did , it gets very hot after repeated attempts to start.
well me and my dad tried her last night, not for long as shes on my drive and its cold and wet! I cant even get her in the garage as she wont start and its up hill! POO!!!
Anyhow, tried putting new terminals on yesterday but one is a really odd size...my dad went to LOADS of places but could not find a terminal that size so im about to order one today.
Anyhow, the way it still stands is that with the connections (held on as firmly as possible) the pump still wont run. There is current when cranking only but im unsure how much as i dont want to turn her over for too long.
But no power at any other time...gonna try all connections when it stops raining..then i can get her in the garage, get her fixed and give her a big hug!
Bloody cars..
.seem like such a pain, but one drive and a simple press on the LOUD pedal and Roberts your Mothers Brother!
Anyhow, tried putting new terminals on yesterday but one is a really odd size...my dad went to LOADS of places but could not find a terminal that size so im about to order one today.
Anyhow, the way it still stands is that with the connections (held on as firmly as possible) the pump still wont run. There is current when cranking only but im unsure how much as i dont want to turn her over for too long.
But no power at any other time...gonna try all connections when it stops raining..then i can get her in the garage, get her fixed and give her a big hug!
Bloody cars..
.seem like such a pain, but one drive and a simple press on the LOUD pedal and Roberts your Mothers Brother! Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff