Discussion
l33 said:
I use Valvoline Racing 20W 50 - after checking many previous posts on this site, this came the most recommended.
L33.
Me too, seems to do tyhe job, and change it every 4 or 5k miles - which is probably about once a year now.
don't seem to be many suppliers of it but get mine from the race shop at Castle Coombe
sorry guys,just some advice 15/50 or 20/50 have peaked there development even though that oil was recommended for the RV8 in its hey day,you need to use something more upto date & viscous that gets moving quicker,premature cam failure springs to mind using dated old engine oils,they cant control sludge to well either poor detergents,etc.causing rocker shaft prem failure.worth considering, theres much better oils,im not saying using the latest super douper synthetics,just a more upto date 10/40 or similar.,.semi syn.much more temp stable too.
>> Edited by that daddy on Monday 29th May 16:49
>> Edited by that daddy on Monday 29th May 16:49
l33 said:
I use Valvoline Racing 20W 50 - after checking many previous posts on this site, this came the most recommended.
L33.
I use this as well. Far better than Mobil 1 that i was using. Doesn't seem to use as much between changes and the engine sounds sweeter. I tend to change mine every 3k anyway.
>> Edited by FrenchTVR on Monday 29th May 16:55
Another nod for the Valvoline VR1 20w50 racing stuff, £11 from my local Autofactors, or £19+vat from Demon Tweeks...guess where I get it from!!!
I can't offer any real advice on how long to keep it in there, cos I change the oil and filter just before loading it onto the trailer before every race weekend, as such it probably is run for 50miles tops before being replaced. I could easily get away with longer but my superstitious mind prevents me
They guy who built my engine for me reccommended it as do several other RV8 people. The other real alternative is the Silkolene stuff which is said to the be absolute mutts nuts, but it is that bit more expensive. I think the "Pro R 15W-50" is the grade.
Regards
Iain
I can't offer any real advice on how long to keep it in there, cos I change the oil and filter just before loading it onto the trailer before every race weekend, as such it probably is run for 50miles tops before being replaced. I could easily get away with longer but my superstitious mind prevents me
They guy who built my engine for me reccommended it as do several other RV8 people. The other real alternative is the Silkolene stuff which is said to the be absolute mutts nuts, but it is that bit more expensive. I think the "Pro R 15W-50" is the grade.
Regards
Iain
that daddy said:
sorry guys,just some advice 15/50 or 20/50 have peaked there development even though that oil was recommended for the RV8 in its hey day,you need to use something more upto date & viscous that gets moving quicker,premature cam failure springs to mind using dated old engine oils,they cant control sludge to well either poor detergents,etc.causing rocker shaft prem failure.worth considering, theres much better oils,im not saying using the latest super douper synthetics,just a more upto date 10/40 or similar.,.semi syn.much more temp stable too.
>> Edited by that daddy on Monday 29th May 16:49
This is basically what the guy in the shop told me (i.e. that this is the latest oil for the V8, improved lubrication etc). Just trying to guage opinion from the experienced chaps here before putting the oil in my engine.
thanks frenchTVR fairly new to TVR ownership.tunbridge wells area.back to subject old engines need old oil is a bit of an old wifes tale,thing is the RV8 is made to pretty good engine tolerances so oil burning due to ring seal problems that sometimes occurs with old engine designs,aint there,just like some early ford engines XFLOW,ESSEX V6 all get the benefit of a modern 10/40 semi syn without the downsides.beleive me theres a world of differance between the like of castrol GTX & duckhams HYPER GRADE kind of oils.cant comment on VALVOLINE because thats a performance oil,but those old 15/50& 20/50 are old hat,might consider putting it in a lawn mower.honestly though a modern oil works a treat in certain older designs,RV8 etc keeps em clean internally to essential for long engine life.phew hope that helps.Had heard a lot of good things about SILKOLENE & MOTUL,ive always liked MOBIL 1 but its viscosity dosent work well in some older engine designs,although i used in a screaming FORD XLOW but that was a built engine proper parts etc & loved it.great for jap performance stuff to.
>> Edited by that daddy on Monday 29th May 21:10
>> Edited by that daddy on Monday 29th May 21:10
I've been thinking about this for some time, having read many of the posts. The problem is we're trying to run an '80s engine with '80s design technology on '00s oils. The engine was built to run with a 50 grade oil and using any lower viscosity will reduce the clearances giving more boundary lubrication and higher wear. If you add the wear that may have taken place during the life of the engine, resulting in lower oil pressures, maybe a 60 grade would be an advantage. The problem is that the majority of current 20W50 oils are also to the '80s specifications (eg API SG). What we really want is a 50 or 60 grade oil with up to date specifications - API SM. Unfortunately the oil companies can't approve these oils as they are frowned upon in the USA by the carmakers who want to hit the CAFE requirements. This conundrum is also faced by other classic car owners.
I was thinking of having a small volume of a 20W50 or perhaps a 20W60 oil formulated with synthetic or semisynthetic basestocks and reaching a specification of API SM. Is there anyone who'd like to buy into this idea?? If so let me know and I'll follow it up.
I was thinking of having a small volume of a 20W50 or perhaps a 20W60 oil formulated with synthetic or semisynthetic basestocks and reaching a specification of API SM. Is there anyone who'd like to buy into this idea?? If so let me know and I'll follow it up.
Over the years oils have got better in many ways. They give better anti-wear performance so the engines don't wear out so fast. They have better anti-rust performance, so the engines wont rust if they are used only for short journeys and don't get hot enough to boil off the water produced from combustion gases at low temperature. They have better anti-oxidancy so the oil doesn't cook and get thick as quick when you're driving it hard and it gets hot. There is better TBN retention which means that the oil retains it's alkaline state a lot longer and can cope with more acids coming from combustion gases that get down the bores. They have better anti-foaming characteristics so you won't get froth forming and being picked up in the oil pump and lowering the oil pressure. They have better anti-sludging performance so you won't get the white emulsion forming on short trips. They have better detergency capability to keep the engine clean, which helps prevent ring sticking.
The need for synthetic basestocks may not be necessary as we could use a Group 2 or Group 3 basestock which has a higher viscosity index, and so less viscosity improver is needed to get the same multigrade capability. With less viscosity improver, there is less chance that it will oxidise and cause ring sticking and leave deposits all over your engine.
If we wanted to go all the way we could get an ILSAC oil formulated, which is similar to the SM quality but has friction modifier added to improve fuel consumption.
The problem has been that while the engine manufacturers have been asking for all these improvements, they have also had to meet the more stringent emissions legislation. This has meant in general that engine running tolerances have got smaller, so less viscous oils are needed. Add to that the need to meet the fuel consumption regulations and they have opted for even lower viscosity oils. The oil companies have responded to this, by producing lower and lower viscosity oils. As the number of classic cars is only a vary small proportion of the market there is no incentive for them to spend money on developing and marketing a high performance high viscosity oil.
The need for synthetic basestocks may not be necessary as we could use a Group 2 or Group 3 basestock which has a higher viscosity index, and so less viscosity improver is needed to get the same multigrade capability. With less viscosity improver, there is less chance that it will oxidise and cause ring sticking and leave deposits all over your engine.
If we wanted to go all the way we could get an ILSAC oil formulated, which is similar to the SM quality but has friction modifier added to improve fuel consumption.
The problem has been that while the engine manufacturers have been asking for all these improvements, they have also had to meet the more stringent emissions legislation. This has meant in general that engine running tolerances have got smaller, so less viscous oils are needed. Add to that the need to meet the fuel consumption regulations and they have opted for even lower viscosity oils. The oil companies have responded to this, by producing lower and lower viscosity oils. As the number of classic cars is only a vary small proportion of the market there is no incentive for them to spend money on developing and marketing a high performance high viscosity oil.
Interesting - it seems to me that many of the advantages you list can be achieved simply by changing the oil more often and using low-sulphur fuels. Even at 1500 miles per change that puts my Unipart oil at the same price as many 24 quid a gallon oils. More frequent changes also reduce the problem of petrol getting in the oil when running on the rich side.
Your oil would probably be better for those who do short trips and/or use their cars infrequently, or who suffer from ring stickage and deposits (oooh err, missus!). But then - who takes their Tiv to the shops and then _doesn't_ go for a 20-mile blast?
Your oil would probably be better for those who do short trips and/or use their cars infrequently, or who suffer from ring stickage and deposits (oooh err, missus!). But then - who takes their Tiv to the shops and then _doesn't_ go for a 20-mile blast?
I agree with you to an extent. I do exactly the same as you do, use a 20W50 and change it frequently. I was looking at it from the point of view that "If there was a top quality 20W50 or 20W60, would I buy it?", and the answer is yes. I wondered if there were others that felt the same way.
Hi, just PM'd you re "special stock" oils however looking at the Valvoline website it infers that the VR1 20W-50 is a API SM rated oil see here www.valvoline.com/products/VR-1%20Racing%20Motor%20Oil.pdf
"Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV where API “SM” is recommended(see proper viscosity grade below)...
...Approvals/Performance Levels : Viscosity Grade/Other
API SM/SL/SJ : 20W-50"
Regards
Iain
"Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV where API “SM” is recommended(see proper viscosity grade below)...
...Approvals/Performance Levels : Viscosity Grade/Other
API SM/SL/SJ : 20W-50"
Regards
Iain
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