Possible UJ issue... Grrrrr.
Discussion
I put 4 new Hardy Spicer HS179 UJs in the 390 last october, 2000 miles ago.
Even after I put them in, I did notice a very small amount of up-down play in the rear wheels when on axle stands. Ho hum. I was advised by you kind chaps on here that its normal to have a small amount of play. MoT bloke was still a bit grumpy though.
Tonight, I noticed that the amount of play has increased a little, to the point that I can hear a small audible clonk when wobbling the wheel. If I wedge a finger in the joints, I can feel that both outer joints do in fact close up a little when the wheel is lifted. The inner joints seem better.
I have greased them about 1000 miles ago.
Im aware that bearings do need a litte clearance to run, but how much is too much?? I guess the wheel rim at the top moves about 2mm.
Should I be worried about this?? The car has the later 400SE style shafts with HS179 UJs. I believe this to be the larger of two sizes fitted to the wedges??
Help and experience much appreciated!
Ed.
Even after I put them in, I did notice a very small amount of up-down play in the rear wheels when on axle stands. Ho hum. I was advised by you kind chaps on here that its normal to have a small amount of play. MoT bloke was still a bit grumpy though.
Tonight, I noticed that the amount of play has increased a little, to the point that I can hear a small audible clonk when wobbling the wheel. If I wedge a finger in the joints, I can feel that both outer joints do in fact close up a little when the wheel is lifted. The inner joints seem better.
I have greased them about 1000 miles ago.
Im aware that bearings do need a litte clearance to run, but how much is too much?? I guess the wheel rim at the top moves about 2mm.
Should I be worried about this?? The car has the later 400SE style shafts with HS179 UJs. I believe this to be the larger of two sizes fitted to the wedges??
Help and experience much appreciated!
Ed.
Glad to hear I'm not on my own Ed.
Mine do and have done exactly the same for as far back as I can remember. All new bearings, bushes, shocks and springs. Just a couple of mill movement up and down only. Sevans, Wedg1e and Badred all had a look at BBWF and UJ's seemed the consensus of opinion. But they make no noise or cause trouble in any other way.
So I am sucking it and seing?
It will be interesting to see what anyone else has to say.
Wee man.
PS.
Thanks for the jump start on Sunday BBWF. I have a new battery now.
Mine do and have done exactly the same for as far back as I can remember. All new bearings, bushes, shocks and springs. Just a couple of mill movement up and down only. Sevans, Wedg1e and Badred all had a look at BBWF and UJ's seemed the consensus of opinion. But they make no noise or cause trouble in any other way.
So I am sucking it and seing?
It will be interesting to see what anyone else has to say.
Wee man.
PS.
Thanks for the jump start on Sunday BBWF. I have a new battery now.
Cool.
They dont move torsionally, which is promising, and cause no problems. Ive seen a Wedge snap a shaft on an off-the-line shoot-out against a griff, and it looked painful! I have little clue as to what their failure mode is: as long as they make a god-awful noise for a few hundred miles before breaking I can do something about it. If they just go bang like a cambelt - that concerns me!
Problem is that the MoT man thinks hes cleverer than me and hes not. Might take it somewhere else next time. He told me that HS joints had NO play in them WHATSOEVER. How does the grease do its job then? What happens when they get cold?!? I wonder if hes ever seen the bearing limits and fits page on the ubiquitous Zeus tables?!?
Ed.
They dont move torsionally, which is promising, and cause no problems. Ive seen a Wedge snap a shaft on an off-the-line shoot-out against a griff, and it looked painful! I have little clue as to what their failure mode is: as long as they make a god-awful noise for a few hundred miles before breaking I can do something about it. If they just go bang like a cambelt - that concerns me!
Problem is that the MoT man thinks hes cleverer than me and hes not. Might take it somewhere else next time. He told me that HS joints had NO play in them WHATSOEVER. How does the grease do its job then? What happens when they get cold?!? I wonder if hes ever seen the bearing limits and fits page on the ubiquitous Zeus tables?!?
Ed.
When you last changed the UJs were the bearing caps overly easy to fit? As in did they slide in with finger pressure and no need of a vice, G clamp, press or your preferred method of persuasion.
I had a driveshaft fail catastrophically which I think was due to the bearing hole in the yoke being worn and not supporting the bearing cap. This was no more than a couple of thousand miles since the last replacement!
I'm in danger of sounding like a broken record so search for "proptech" and you will find many plugs.... by me!
I had a driveshaft fail catastrophically which I think was due to the bearing hole in the yoke being worn and not supporting the bearing cap. This was no more than a couple of thousand miles since the last replacement!
I'm in danger of sounding like a broken record so search for "proptech" and you will find many plugs.... by me!
ed_crouch said:
...Ive seen a Wedge snap a shaft on an off-the-line shoot-out against a griff, and it looked painful! I have little clue as to what their failure mode is: as long as they make a god-awful noise for a few hundred miles before breaking I can do something about it. If they just go bang like a cambelt - that concerns me!
Problem is that the MoT man thinks hes cleverer than me and hes not. Might take it somewhere else next time. He told me that HS joints had NO play in them WHATSOEVER. How does the grease do its job then? What happens when they get cold?!? I wonder if hes ever seen the bearing limits and fits page on the ubiquitous Zeus tables?!?
Ed.
AFAIK the failure mode under normal driving (*)is progressively increasing vibrations and/or clonks getting worse over maybe hundreds of miles before finally sounding unbelievably bad and then letting go two miles away from home on the A360.Problem is that the MoT man thinks hes cleverer than me and hes not. Might take it somewhere else next time. He told me that HS joints had NO play in them WHATSOEVER. How does the grease do its job then? What happens when they get cold?!? I wonder if hes ever seen the bearing limits and fits page on the ubiquitous Zeus tables?!?
Ed.
(*)As opposed to drag strip style starts.
Find yourself an MOT man who is old school and knows how a UJ and a bearing work! Easier said than done I know.
Ed,
FYI The car had the movement up and down on the rear wheels when I bought it (something else the find a sports car 'expert' didn't spot. Neither did his golden retriever). Everything on the rear has been changed since except the UJ's. I have done nine thousand miles over three years without any problems.
Also been told to expect clunking and banging etc before the UJ's go.
So playing the waiting game.
Wee man.
FYI The car had the movement up and down on the rear wheels when I bought it (something else the find a sports car 'expert' didn't spot. Neither did his golden retriever). Everything on the rear has been changed since except the UJ's. I have done nine thousand miles over three years without any problems.
Also been told to expect clunking and banging etc before the UJ's go.
So playing the waiting game.
Wee man.
Quick UJ diagnostics (requires a brave mate)...
Run the wheels of one side up onto kerb. Apply handbrake like you've never applied it before.
Have brave mate lie under rear of car.
Engage 1st gear, now find clutch biting point, add some revs and 'bounce' the pedal around that point. As the slack comes out of the drive any movement between parts of drivetrain will be evident to brave mate.
For second opinion swap places with brave mate
First time I tried this (Tasmin) I was convinced my diff was falling out; turned out to be a UJ clonking.
Returning the favour to the same mate on his Lotus Elite... he suspected a UJ, I found a crack in his chassis that meant his diff was leaping around
Run the wheels of one side up onto kerb. Apply handbrake like you've never applied it before.
Have brave mate lie under rear of car.
Engage 1st gear, now find clutch biting point, add some revs and 'bounce' the pedal around that point. As the slack comes out of the drive any movement between parts of drivetrain will be evident to brave mate.
For second opinion swap places with brave mate
First time I tried this (Tasmin) I was convinced my diff was falling out; turned out to be a UJ clonking.
Returning the favour to the same mate on his Lotus Elite... he suspected a UJ, I found a crack in his chassis that meant his diff was leaping around
I can honestly say that the bearing caps were the biggest wrestling match I have ever had: no risk of them coming out in a hurry unless the drive shaft is doing about a billion RPM!!
So no problems there. I did have to dress the outer ends of the bores with a die grinder, but that was only VERY slight and well above the snapring groove, as the top of one or two bores was a touch burred.
I cant hear any clonking, so I think Im ok...
Ed.
So no problems there. I did have to dress the outer ends of the bores with a die grinder, but that was only VERY slight and well above the snapring groove, as the top of one or two bores was a touch burred.
I cant hear any clonking, so I think Im ok...
Ed.
Mot man informed me I had "slight plasy in rear wheel bearings". on investgation decided this was uj's not wheel bearings. took the opportunity last week to replace them all. result, a negligable amount of play in bearing & much less than before (these were also re-packed with grease). so all appears well if thats the norm.
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