5.0L conversion
Discussion
A friend of mine is converting from the V6 to 5L V8 in his early Tasmin.
I thought you guys could help with some advice for selecting the best radiator setup. I am thinking he may have cooling issues using the standard rad (not in nose cone). Is there a off-the-shelf rad that fits in the standard location, or would it be better to move it to the nose? There are pretty reasonably priced aluminum radiators for some of the more popular cars, I wonder if there's one that is easily fitted?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
I thought you guys could help with some advice for selecting the best radiator setup. I am thinking he may have cooling issues using the standard rad (not in nose cone). Is there a off-the-shelf rad that fits in the standard location, or would it be better to move it to the nose? There are pretty reasonably priced aluminum radiators for some of the more popular cars, I wonder if there's one that is easily fitted?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
A 5ltr Rv8 is going to need a lot more cooling than the v6, most Griff's and Chim's run the clasic ladrover or Ali type rad with 2 fans.
Also the Rv8 is going to be longer than the 6, so putting the rad in the nose like the 350 and 400's is you best option.
Ali rad for nose is going to cost about £500(inc otter) plus £200 for fans (£100 each) or then stadard nose rad's are about £180. but your need to get it mod-ed to take a otter or use an exteral hose fitting otter switch. or a kenlow adjustable one etc.
has the car got the later chassis with the mountings. and are you going to take the body of to fit.
Also you need to upgrade the gearbox, brakes, and rear drive shafts and UJ's you may want to put a LSD diff in the car also.
Up us updated on here of your progress
Leigh
Currently fitting a Rv8 4.0 in a old style 280FHC chassis. (well will be as soon as I get the engine.)
Also the Rv8 is going to be longer than the 6, so putting the rad in the nose like the 350 and 400's is you best option.
Ali rad for nose is going to cost about £500(inc otter) plus £200 for fans (£100 each) or then stadard nose rad's are about £180. but your need to get it mod-ed to take a otter or use an exteral hose fitting otter switch. or a kenlow adjustable one etc.
has the car got the later chassis with the mountings. and are you going to take the body of to fit.
Also you need to upgrade the gearbox, brakes, and rear drive shafts and UJ's you may want to put a LSD diff in the car also.
Up us updated on here of your progress
Leigh
Currently fitting a Rv8 4.0 in a old style 280FHC chassis. (well will be as soon as I get the engine.)
The 5ltr ford is a fairly straight forward conversion from what i've seen, it may be heavier but its a bit narrower isnt it.
Its fairly common in the usa, and there are a couple of wedge articles on the web. but i cant find them on a quick google...
a ford 302 is one of the options i've been looking at for my 280i.
it may be heavy but i believe its lighter than the v6 boat anchor that you take out
G
edited to say s1.5 1985 tasmin... thats exactly the same spec as the racer, including the LHD bit, although now converted to rhd....
Its fairly common in the usa, and there are a couple of wedge articles on the web. but i cant find them on a quick google...
a ford 302 is one of the options i've been looking at for my 280i.
it may be heavy but i believe its lighter than the v6 boat anchor that you take out
G
edited to say s1.5 1985 tasmin... thats exactly the same spec as the racer, including the LHD bit, although now converted to rhd....
Edited by Graham on Thursday 15th November 09:31
In the USA the Ford 5.0 are very cheap compared to the Rover V8. Typically the ford V8's are lighter than the GM V8's I have not seen a direct comparison to the Rover V8 but my guess is that the Ford is lighter. And has more stock bhp than any Rover engine in the USA. When it is all said and done I am expecting the car to be 100 lbs lighter than with the V6. Also in the USA performance parts for a ford 5.0 are very cheap and easy to come by. The conversion is very easy. I have found a good radiator option; I am going to use one from Summit Racing and use some spacers and mount it in front of the existing location. With a 17" electric fan mounted to the front. Once I get everything sorted out I will make it into a conversion manual for anyone that wants it.
You may want to take the body off for a few reasons.
1. to make it easier.
2. give it a good clean, repair and paint
3. Replace out riggers is they are suspect.
4. change the mounting points to take coil over shocks and springs, as you will need new springs anyway due the the lighter front end.
Opps scrap part 4, it's in the USA, and they don't go round corners
Be interesting to see the results.
What BHP you hoping to get out of the V8.
1. to make it easier.
2. give it a good clean, repair and paint
3. Replace out riggers is they are suspect.
4. change the mounting points to take coil over shocks and springs, as you will need new springs anyway due the the lighter front end.
Opps scrap part 4, it's in the USA, and they don't go round corners
Be interesting to see the results.
What BHP you hoping to get out of the V8.
I don't know about the V6 being a boat anchor. The narrow valley saves a bit of weight. The popular engine weight compare chart on the web (Dave Williams) shows the Rover @ 318, 2.8L V6 @ 305 and a newer 5.0L Ford V8 @ 411 lbs. I know there are a few more variables, but at first pass the 2.8L isn't all that heavy.
I will not argue the fact that in a power to power compare I would refer to it as an anchor, however. Now that 4.0L version of the Cologne I am putting into mine will hopefully be a considerable step up from the 2.8. We'll see. The current dilemma I am wrestling with now is how to get the OHV heads and intake to breath. The heads alone (and a slight compression boost) give the SOHC 4.0L another 50HP! But it is one expensive engine to rebuild and even more of a POS than the OHV... Sorry to see the Cologne go this year, but its time was over.
I will not argue the fact that in a power to power compare I would refer to it as an anchor, however. Now that 4.0L version of the Cologne I am putting into mine will hopefully be a considerable step up from the 2.8. We'll see. The current dilemma I am wrestling with now is how to get the OHV heads and intake to breath. The heads alone (and a slight compression boost) give the SOHC 4.0L another 50HP! But it is one expensive engine to rebuild and even more of a POS than the OHV... Sorry to see the Cologne go this year, but its time was over.
Thats not right the Rover v8 is all ally ( heads and block) and much lighter than the 3.0 essex and cologne 2.8/2.9 v6 with its cast Iron head and Block....
I have both sitting in my garage..
The Rv8 weighs the same as the ford pinto 2ltr 4pot
The v6 is def a boat anchor only less useful im sure the ford 302 v8 is lighter than the v6
I have both sitting in my garage..
The Rv8 weighs the same as the ford pinto 2ltr 4pot
The v6 is def a boat anchor only less useful im sure the ford 302 v8 is lighter than the v6
I used some livestock scales when I took out the old V6 and put in the new V8. I did not write down the exact numbers but the difference was 75 lbs. This is engine and transmission vs. engine and transmission. The car is also loosing the k-jet FI stuff and anything that looks like emission controls, also the V8 will have a ebilbrock intake and a holly 650 cfm carb not all that heavy FI stuff. My AC has never worked so that is gone also. You would be amazed how heavy the 4 speed bellhousing is! That’s why I am guessing the overall weight difference will be around 125-150lbs.
This is not me but this guy has been a go by. (302wedge)
http://rides.webshots.com/album/268133579VVxEmz
This is not me but this guy has been a go by. (302wedge)
http://rides.webshots.com/album/268133579VVxEmz
As for the engine weights I quoted, they are numbers that have been available for years on the web and the file has been updated regularly. I'd be surprised if they are that far off. I will start my diet just in case - dang, the holidays are coming up. Good thing I got those up rated springs!
That's a good idea to use a livestock scale! I will ask my neighbor if he has one. I have a number of these engines sitting around (Rover, 4.0 V6 OHC & SOHC, will borrow a 302) and will hoist a few with the fork lift.
I recently took my AC off too. Who needs it with a rag top? Now if I get rid of that gigantic bullet-proof alternator/AC pump bracket the car will be sitting nose high. Good thing I also picked up the rear adjustable ride height shocks to compensate!
That's a good idea to use a livestock scale! I will ask my neighbor if he has one. I have a number of these engines sitting around (Rover, 4.0 V6 OHC & SOHC, will borrow a 302) and will hoist a few with the fork lift.
I recently took my AC off too. Who needs it with a rag top? Now if I get rid of that gigantic bullet-proof alternator/AC pump bracket the car will be sitting nose high. Good thing I also picked up the rear adjustable ride height shocks to compensate!
Sorry, i've been busy for some time now and haven't been keeping track of the Wedge pages. We can debate the pro's and con's of the late model Ford 302, but the bottom line is that it is cheap, will make lots of power and will run forever. The racing world has recorded these facts for over 40 years. Like the Rover engine, it keeps getting better with age. I've had a 5.0 Ford and a T-5 transmission in my 1983 280i for 2 years now (in the USA )and it is a rocket. When I did the conversion I accuately weighted EVERYTHING and I too dumped the airconditioning. The engine weights that were mentioned sound about right but the biggest differance appeared when you start weighing the whole package. The T-5 weighted 75 pounds less then the V6 4 speed and when you add up bellhousings and the CIS injection junk the castiron Ford 5.0 weighted less then the V6. I used a Griffith aluminum radiator and mounted it about 2" forward of the V6 location (the V8 sits 3" aft of the original V6 position). I have another set of photos and a pretty good "how to" directions at the previous mentioned site and at,
http://community.webshots.com/user/lkeeeler
I have looked on all your beautiful V8 cars with GREAT envy, but i think you would be impressed with the day in and day out performance of this conversion. It runs side by side with a friends 2007 Porsche Turbo. Not bad for an investment of about $900. I spent a lot of time, and enjoyed doing this swap and would be glad to pass on any lessions learned.
http://community.webshots.com/user/lkeeeler
I have looked on all your beautiful V8 cars with GREAT envy, but i think you would be impressed with the day in and day out performance of this conversion. It runs side by side with a friends 2007 Porsche Turbo. Not bad for an investment of about $900. I spent a lot of time, and enjoyed doing this swap and would be glad to pass on any lessions learned.
Simplier hook-up and mounting. My car is the older style and there isn't the same kind of support forward of the steering rack that the later cars have ( my sway bar is to the rear). Also, the radiator that I used allowed me to connect off the shelf hoses with the radiator mounted just forward of the factory position, instead of making custom plumbing to run way up front. The radiator sits vertically in a craddle and I used aluminum brackets over the top that allow for expansion. I wasn't sure how I would support the radiator if I mounted it in a semi reclined position up front.
the original rad in my 280i s1.5 usa spec car was vertically mounted in the nose, on brackets bolted to the body the grp covered wooded sections at the side of the headlight pods, not mounted to the chassis at all.
It was ( I say was as chassis33 managed to re-arrange it into the Mallory tyre wall) a ranger rover rad.
It was ( I say was as chassis33 managed to re-arrange it into the Mallory tyre wall) a ranger rover rad.
Adam, thanks for bring that point up. I was pretty sure of the clearance but had never actaully measured it. The headers, that don't appear in the photos, have 3 1/2 inches and the pan is 4 inches of clearance.
The 280i's are not very common in the States and I know of two other 5.0 Ford conversions, one has an automatic transmission. Mine was the subject of several topics on this sight 2 years ago. tr7andtvr is in the middle of doing the third such swap. I know that it dosn't make much sence to do this conversion in the UK, especially to a Rover car, but it's ideal for the V6 cars (and that's all we have over here). Less weight and more than double the HP, but I guess the insurance companies and the MOT in the UK wouldn't allow such a thing. To bad.
The 280i's are not very common in the States and I know of two other 5.0 Ford conversions, one has an automatic transmission. Mine was the subject of several topics on this sight 2 years ago. tr7andtvr is in the middle of doing the third such swap. I know that it dosn't make much sence to do this conversion in the UK, especially to a Rover car, but it's ideal for the V6 cars (and that's all we have over here). Less weight and more than double the HP, but I guess the insurance companies and the MOT in the UK wouldn't allow such a thing. To bad.
302wedge said:
I guess the insurance companies and the MOT in the UK wouldn't allow such a thing. To bad.
Mot no problem, and insurance not too much of an issue depending on your driving history !!!The biggest problem is sourcing a 302 at the right money. they are not very common over here.
I've been in a quandry for some time about what engine to fit in my taz racer... I've just about had my fill of 2.8 v6's they are not very power full, heavy and crap.. (IMHO) I do have a 24v v6 which is one option ( needs a refresh) and also a fairly fresh 4ltr rv8 race motor ( 2 races) If i could find a 302 cheap enough I'd be tempted as its a bit heavier than the rover but narrower across the heads
G
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