Trailing Arm & Poly bushes
Trailing Arm & Poly bushes
Author
Discussion

zcar

Original Poster:

106 posts

298 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
Does anyone supply an uprated trailing arm bush in polyeurathane or can you only get standard trailing arm bushes? The ones on the 390 need replacing.

Also, Ive done a search on poly bushes and no-ones appears to supply a full kit, although superflex supply a lot. Where are people getting their poly bushes from?

Nick

What started out as a simple refurb has now turned into a full body off restoration!!!!

TVRleigh_BBWR

6,553 posts

243 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
Not got any on mine it's fully rose jointed.

zcar

Original Poster:

106 posts

298 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
Strewth that must have cost a packet!!
Your 400 will be A frame though, not trailing arm wont it?? Mine is an early 390 so still has the ludicrous trailing arm set up?
Is the racer trailing arm?
Nick

heightswitch

6,322 posts

280 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
zcar said:
Does anyone supply an uprated trailing arm bush in polyeurathane or can you only get standard trailing arm bushes? The ones on the 390 need replacing.

Also, Ive done a search on poly bushes and no-ones appears to supply a full kit, although superflex supply a lot. Where are people getting their poly bushes from?

Nick

What started out as a simple refurb has now turned into a full body off restoration!!!!
How big is the bush?

You can look at the universal range in the demon tweeks catalogues which give you a number of dimensions to play with. What OD tube does it fit into?
N.

jagdpanther

19,633 posts

249 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
Not got any on mine it's fully rose jointed.
Whats the mechanics of rose jointed suspension and what are the benefits Leigh?

Drop me an email if you dont want to hijack the thread wink


Id be interested to know about the full poly kit as it is definitely something I will be getting for mine at some point

shpub

8,507 posts

302 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
Right where to start?......

Front suspension. Don't use poly, use the original wishbone rubber bushes because the suspension needs some movement to work correctly. Poly versions of the tie rod bush are worth it though.

The rear A frame is not an problem.
Trailing arm is more difficult and I would talk to someone like RT Racing who may have done some poly bushes.

Rose jointing is simple in practice: replace each bush with a rose joint by replacing the bush holder with a threaded bush. It removes compliance and stiffens up the suspension at the expense of making the ride harder and noisier. However, rose joints offer more movement than bushes which means that care has to be taken to ensure that the rose joint doesn't start to cause issues elsewhere. For example... on the front suspension, the SEACs have a big rose joint on the bottom chassis point which attaches to the wishbone through a big metal plate that is welded to a cutoff wishbone. The small design flaw with this setup is that the wishbone actually twists more than with a rubber bush and while it provides an advantage of adjustable camber it is at the expense of poor dynamic geometry. I had terrible problems with my setup which is why it got changed to my own design.

jagdpanther

19,633 posts

249 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
shpub said:
Right where to start?......

Front suspension. Don't use poly, use the original wishbone rubber bushes because the suspension needs some movement to work correctly. Poly versions of the tie rod bush are worth it though.

The rear A frame is not an problem.
Trailing arm is more difficult and I would talk to someone like RT Racing who may have done some poly bushes.

Rose jointing is simple in practice: replace each bush with a rose joint by replacing the bush holder with a threaded bush. It removes compliance and stiffens up the suspension at the expense of making the ride harder and noisier. However, rose joints offer more movement than bushes which means that care has to be taken to ensure that the rose joint doesn't start to cause issues elsewhere. For example... on the front suspension, the SEACs have a big rose joint on the bottom chassis point which attaches to the wishbone through a big metal plate that is welded to a cutoff wishbone. The small design flaw with this setup is that the wishbone actually twists more than with a rubber bush and while it provides an advantage of adjustable camber it is at the expense of poor dynamic geometry. I had terrible problems with my setup which is why it got changed to my own design.
Ahhhh thanks for the info Steve, its always nice to learn a little something from time to time!

TVRleigh_BBWR

6,553 posts

243 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
zcar said:
Strewth that must have cost a packet!!
Your 400 will be A frame though, not trailing arm wont it?? Mine is an early 390 so still has the ludicrous trailing arm set up?
Is the racer trailing arm?
Nick
No that's on my trailing arm race car. as said the 400SE is A frame.

zcar

Original Poster:

106 posts

298 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
RT Racing appear to do a kit for all occasions. Looks like a phone call to them is required.
Thanks for the help, advise and pointers, appreciated as always!
Nick

MJG280

723 posts

289 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
My concern is the trailing arm front bush bolt. I got my 5 speed gearbox from a Tasmin wrecked by the bolt snapping so have been investigating the rose joint. Doesn’t seem that difficult to do. Just choosing the right joint from the large number that seems to be out there, find a competent welder (I’m only at ugly weld grade) and separate the body from the chassis.

I have 2 spare bushes but they have no markings but RT used to advertise the bushes.

Don’t forget to buy new bolts as well.


tempus

674 posts

231 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
The trailing arm was designed for a europa and uses the same bush as the early ones,Lotus people have made many mods for them ,they did make it as far as the esprit and the mods for these might fit, some race cars run on solid brass bushes but they do not perform so well on potholes,the weakness is not just in the bush but also in the spindle which bends quite easily if pushed,but it adds character and gives the rear wheels the freedom to roam which is important for wedgers and erm free range chickens. Tempus smile

adam quantrill

11,679 posts

272 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
I'vev put poly bushes on the trailing arm 350i I have, excepting the front one which is the original big rubber thing.

When you go poly you can only reassemble one way because the bushes allow very little lateral movement. I think I have to install the bottom link inboard bolt last of all. After this, if you want to work on anything you have to remove this bolt first.

TVRleigh_BBWR

6,553 posts

243 months

Thursday 31st January 2008
quotequote all
MJG280 said:
My concern is the trailing arm front bush bolt. I got my 5 speed gearbox from a Tasmin wrecked by the bolt snapping so have been investigating the rose joint. Doesn’t seem that difficult to do. Just choosing the right joint from the large number that seems to be out there, find a competent welder (I’m only at ugly weld grade) and separate the body from the chassis.

I have 2 spare bushes but they have no markings but RT used to advertise the bushes.

Don’t forget to buy new bolts as well.
I've got the body off the RC, and will have for a few weeks, your welcome to come down and see how the rose joints fit.

zcar

Original Poster:

106 posts

298 months

Sunday 3rd February 2008
quotequote all
Leigh,
Wouldnt mind a few snaps of the rose joints whilst the body is off. Is that possible??
Thanks
Nick

MJG280

723 posts

289 months

Sunday 3rd February 2008
quotequote all
Thanks for the offer TVRleigh_BBWR but I've got a good idea of what to do It's choosing the rod ends that seems to be the difficult part. There's a lot of choice out there.

Do you know what make and part number you used?

TVRleigh_BBWR

6,553 posts

243 months

Monday 4th February 2008
quotequote all
zcar said:
Leigh,
Wouldnt mind a few snaps of the rose joints whilst the body is off. Is that possible??
Thanks
Nick
I'll take a lot of pic's this weekend, if you can wait that long.
as flash is fooked on camera so can only take pic's in the daylight.

zcar

Original Poster:

106 posts

298 months

Monday 4th February 2008
quotequote all
I'll let you know on Friday how we are getting on. No point you wasting your time if we've already designed it and made it by then!!
Thanks for the offer though, will be in touch.

zcar

Original Poster:

106 posts

298 months

Wednesday 6th February 2008
quotequote all
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
I'll take a lot of pic's this weekend, if you can wait that long.
as flash is fooked on camera so can only take pic's in the daylight.
Leigh,
If you are still OK to take some snaps of the rose jointed set up Id appreciate it.
Thanks
Nick

UKAuto

535 posts

307 months

Thursday 14th February 2008
quotequote all
tempus said:
...some race cars run on solid brass bushes but they do not perform so well on potholes,the weakness is not just in the bush but also in the spindle which bends quite easily if pushed,...
My 350i was eating rear trailing arm bushes pretty quickly so I made up a steel block that mounted to the frame using the same two mounting bolts, and had a large hole bored to hold a brass bush (stepped hole so bushing presses in from one side, but stays seated. Works very well. Did this a few years back and it has done well. One mod I did in the process is I moved away from the original stepped bolt design, to a single high grade bolt that has a larger diameter. The stepped bolts have failed on my twice - one time during a fairly quick corner (not recommended).

If of interest I will see if I can find photos.

zcar

Original Poster:

106 posts

298 months

Thursday 14th February 2008
quotequote all
We decided to junk the trailing arm and go for an a frame design, similar to what the later wedgies use, but not exactly the same, as we are trying to get the suspension loads back down the central spine chassis tubes rather than having them wafting about mid tube ala TVR design.
Nick