Petrol pirates got you down in the dumps?
Discussion
I'm copying this here from my forum since I know how badly priced petrol is at the pump.
I hope it benefits someone. I did this to my rx-7...the wedge, altho not as thirsty is next.
I saw an link on infowars.com that took me to a webpage about running your car boosted by HHO gas, aka Hydroxy.
Owning two very thirsty tweaked out cars combined with Kanuckistan's new carbon tax and artificially inflated gas prices,
I decided to look into the matter further. Claims of 30-60% increase in gas milage seemed a bit outrageous, but I decided to
build me one of these HHO generators anyway. I began studying designs on youtube by various experimentors and eventually
copied a design I liked.
My rx-7 is the biggest gas guzzler I own. It's little 1.3L engine sucks back far more gas than my 4L TVR ever could.
I decided to test it out on the 7, since it was my daily driver and it had the highest operating cost.
I built a 9 plate design out of stainless steel. The plates are 3x6 inches, and spaced at 1/8th of an inch.
The plate array is: (n= neutral....connected to nothing) + n - n + n - n +
I encased the plate array in 4" i/d PVC pipe and made a separate "bubbler" from the same material.
After a few days of messing around and trying different things, I installed it last night and took my car out for a test drive.
WOW!
Not only is the gas milage improved, but I had more power as well!... and from nothing but a little 12VDC from my alternator and
WATER!!!
The test drive I gave the car was substanially long, (200km) but not quite scientific compared to past trips. About a month ago I had to drive to Regina
and it's quite a long way (750km) so I took it easy on the gas pedal to get the best gas milage I could. By the time I got to Medicine Hat,
some 275km away, I'd already used a needle indicated 3/4 of a tank. I had topped the tank off to spilling over point prior to leaving.
On that trip I obeyed the speed limit religiously...110km/h.
Last night, I also topped off the tank, so that much is a fair comparison. However, unlike the 110km speed limit I adhered to on my trip
to Regina, last night I was having fun with the increase in power, gas milage be damned. I likely averaged about 140km/h, and had several
spurts of 200km/h+ on long straight-aways, jack-rabbit starts, etc etc... anything I could do to feel the power.
When I got back into the city, I was a needle below half a tank.
Given that the distances were different, the speeds were different, and the only "control" factor was the amount of gas I filled it with, I can't say this
was a scientifically accurate experiment. OTOH, I know the car very well and know how damned thirsty it is. For the balls to the wall driving I did,
I should have used more than 1/2 a tank.... easily.
As it stands, my milage has improved as has power... both were free to me except for $40 or so in supplies, and better yet, I can increase the benefit
futher once I get my timing adjusted to reflect the faster burning rate of hydrogen. I will be able to adjust my timing with at least 80% less ignintion
BTDC, (before top dead center) thus more gas is burned on the power stroke and less on the compression stroke with actually creates less of a back-preasure
on your piston, or in my case, rotor, for a more efficient engine.
I would strongly advise anyone who is pissed off at the gas pump to view this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hFifFR-4C28 and begin looking into this.
The same applies to people who have to emissions test their cars to get a licence plate renewal.
HHO? I'm convinced!
While nobody would argue that water is made out of hydrogen and oxygen, a lot of people I have talked to do argue the point that it takes more energy to separate H2 from O than you get back from burning hydrogen in your engine.
The BIG LIE seems to be you cannot possibly get more energy out of something than is put into it.
Such a notion is true sometimes, but not always. A very good example of more energy OUT than IN is the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The bomb was really two explosions... one by the detonator, the other by Uranium.
So don't let anyone tell you it cannot be done, the above example destroys such a notion.
Anyone done this to their wedge yet?
I hope it benefits someone. I did this to my rx-7...the wedge, altho not as thirsty is next.
I saw an link on infowars.com that took me to a webpage about running your car boosted by HHO gas, aka Hydroxy.
Owning two very thirsty tweaked out cars combined with Kanuckistan's new carbon tax and artificially inflated gas prices,
I decided to look into the matter further. Claims of 30-60% increase in gas milage seemed a bit outrageous, but I decided to
build me one of these HHO generators anyway. I began studying designs on youtube by various experimentors and eventually
copied a design I liked.
My rx-7 is the biggest gas guzzler I own. It's little 1.3L engine sucks back far more gas than my 4L TVR ever could.
I decided to test it out on the 7, since it was my daily driver and it had the highest operating cost.
I built a 9 plate design out of stainless steel. The plates are 3x6 inches, and spaced at 1/8th of an inch.
The plate array is: (n= neutral....connected to nothing) + n - n + n - n +
I encased the plate array in 4" i/d PVC pipe and made a separate "bubbler" from the same material.
After a few days of messing around and trying different things, I installed it last night and took my car out for a test drive.
WOW!
Not only is the gas milage improved, but I had more power as well!... and from nothing but a little 12VDC from my alternator and
WATER!!!
The test drive I gave the car was substanially long, (200km) but not quite scientific compared to past trips. About a month ago I had to drive to Regina
and it's quite a long way (750km) so I took it easy on the gas pedal to get the best gas milage I could. By the time I got to Medicine Hat,
some 275km away, I'd already used a needle indicated 3/4 of a tank. I had topped the tank off to spilling over point prior to leaving.
On that trip I obeyed the speed limit religiously...110km/h.
Last night, I also topped off the tank, so that much is a fair comparison. However, unlike the 110km speed limit I adhered to on my trip
to Regina, last night I was having fun with the increase in power, gas milage be damned. I likely averaged about 140km/h, and had several
spurts of 200km/h+ on long straight-aways, jack-rabbit starts, etc etc... anything I could do to feel the power.
When I got back into the city, I was a needle below half a tank.
Given that the distances were different, the speeds were different, and the only "control" factor was the amount of gas I filled it with, I can't say this
was a scientifically accurate experiment. OTOH, I know the car very well and know how damned thirsty it is. For the balls to the wall driving I did,
I should have used more than 1/2 a tank.... easily.
As it stands, my milage has improved as has power... both were free to me except for $40 or so in supplies, and better yet, I can increase the benefit
futher once I get my timing adjusted to reflect the faster burning rate of hydrogen. I will be able to adjust my timing with at least 80% less ignintion
BTDC, (before top dead center) thus more gas is burned on the power stroke and less on the compression stroke with actually creates less of a back-preasure
on your piston, or in my case, rotor, for a more efficient engine.
I would strongly advise anyone who is pissed off at the gas pump to view this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hFifFR-4C28 and begin looking into this.
The same applies to people who have to emissions test their cars to get a licence plate renewal.
HHO? I'm convinced!
While nobody would argue that water is made out of hydrogen and oxygen, a lot of people I have talked to do argue the point that it takes more energy to separate H2 from O than you get back from burning hydrogen in your engine.
The BIG LIE seems to be you cannot possibly get more energy out of something than is put into it.
Such a notion is true sometimes, but not always. A very good example of more energy OUT than IN is the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The bomb was really two explosions... one by the detonator, the other by Uranium.
So don't let anyone tell you it cannot be done, the above example destroys such a notion.
Anyone done this to their wedge yet?
Edited by Brap_Brap on Thursday 3rd July 22:01
Edited by Brap_Brap on Thursday 3rd July 22:02
There have been lots of these posts all over the place. but 1st one I've seen for a known poster.
would not thought you could generate that much hydrogen to make much differance. due to the amount of air used every minute.
be interesting to some more sicentific infomation, on how much is generated. also how do you control the flow. as ideally you would need more as the rev's rise.
Also is it does give more power why don't any race teams use it.
would not thought you could generate that much hydrogen to make much differance. due to the amount of air used every minute.
be interesting to some more sicentific infomation, on how much is generated. also how do you control the flow. as ideally you would need more as the rev's rise.
Also is it does give more power why don't any race teams use it.
If you watch the videos he explains it all, they were running an engine on hydrogen, where basically you set an idle with a valve and then have another valve to let more gas in as the accelarator.
Obviously with petrol being fed as well you would need the same sort of progressive setup to squirt more gas to get faster speed.
Most of the stuff available at the moment sems to be using HH0 which is not as pure as H and you add that to your petrol / diesel in the manifold mix to make the petrol burn at the higher temp, thus burning more efficently.
Anyhows enough of my hours reading early this morning, thinking of ordering the books from water4gas.com to glean more info on the home made kits and try on the 2.5 vectra as I know what mpg that does. If I fit it and it improves I'll let you know, and then start selling you all my kits for a massive profit
If it does not improve then only me that's lost out.
I suppose not many are using for racing as probably not a reconised fuel source for most series racing, but I'm sure I remeber a drag racer trying the stuff out in a pro drag racer.
I think one of the interesting things about using the hydrogen is that in theory you could produce this yourself ? Run the engine on it with improved efficency - therefore power and as a by product push out clean air to the enviroment (not that we are as interested in that bit as we are in the more power )
Obviously with petrol being fed as well you would need the same sort of progressive setup to squirt more gas to get faster speed.
Most of the stuff available at the moment sems to be using HH0 which is not as pure as H and you add that to your petrol / diesel in the manifold mix to make the petrol burn at the higher temp, thus burning more efficently.
Anyhows enough of my hours reading early this morning, thinking of ordering the books from water4gas.com to glean more info on the home made kits and try on the 2.5 vectra as I know what mpg that does. If I fit it and it improves I'll let you know, and then start selling you all my kits for a massive profit
If it does not improve then only me that's lost out.I suppose not many are using for racing as probably not a reconised fuel source for most series racing, but I'm sure I remeber a drag racer trying the stuff out in a pro drag racer.
I think one of the interesting things about using the hydrogen is that in theory you could produce this yourself ? Run the engine on it with improved efficency - therefore power and as a by product push out clean air to the enviroment (not that we are as interested in that bit as we are in the more power
)gsx600 said:
I think one of the interesting things about using the hydrogen is that in theory you could produce this yourself ? Run the engine on it with improved efficency - therefore power and as a by product push out clean air to the enviroment (not that we are as interested in that bit as we are in the more power )
That's what I'm doing. I have no illusions about ever being able to generate enough to feed the engine soley off of it, but on the other hand if it helps ignites the portion of the gas that goes out the tail pipe unburned, it's worth it. )My wankel engine is notorious for wasting gas out the tail pipe. Now I finally get to burn it all, so I've definately noticed an improvement. It's still a bit weak in the low end torque, but the high end torque, which they're known for, is now astonishing.
As for milage, I'm still on my first tank. I usually would get about 280-300km's (in city) off of a tank driving the car like a normal human. Right now, still on the first tank, but only a little above the empty mark, I've got over 330km's, and as I wrote in my first post, the first 200km's were pure high speed thrashing....hardly miserly.
I'll know for sure next fill up, but I'm guessing I'll get roughly 400km's now, driving in city, off of a 55L tank.
That's a 33% increase over what I'd normally get, and nothing to laugh at.
Hi Mike - I'd like to see a double blind study. Can you isolate the 12V supply to your generator to stop it working? If so, install a switch that you can't see and get a friend to switch it one way or the other without telling you.
Then go on some drives and note the gas mileage.
Get your friend to switch the switch every so often but still not tell you whether it's on or off.
At the end of the experiment compare the mpg with the switch setting to see if the effect is real.
Then go on some drives and note the gas mileage.
Get your friend to switch the switch every so often but still not tell you whether it's on or off.
At the end of the experiment compare the mpg with the switch setting to see if the effect is real.
Adam, I think the true math would better be reflected in a dyno test.
There's only one that I can find on the net in town, and they charge you $179 an hour if I recall,
but it would be worth it just to find out. I do intent to try it "on" and "off"... I'll post the graph.
I know damned well it works on a wankel. Anyone who has ever researched why such a basic engine gets
such piss poor milage learns very quickly that the very design of a wankel prevents a GOOD portion of the
gas from being burned. That's also why a wankel is known for lousy emmisions output. In my case, I now get to
burn ALL the gas, or damned near to it. While my 7 doesn't have anywhere near the snap, crackle and pop the wedge
does, it does on thing FAR better.... to wit: shoot fire out the exhaust with a loud bang. That bang is now gone,
so I have to be burning the excess gas that was wasted beforehand.
@gsx600 I don't know if I will. Half my joy in the wedge is not stepping on the gas, but rather letting off of it and hearing that glorious pop pop pop pop out the tail pipe. If I efectively burn that gas, my snap, crackle and pop is gone.... and that's no fun.
There's only one that I can find on the net in town, and they charge you $179 an hour if I recall,
but it would be worth it just to find out. I do intent to try it "on" and "off"... I'll post the graph.
I know damned well it works on a wankel. Anyone who has ever researched why such a basic engine gets
such piss poor milage learns very quickly that the very design of a wankel prevents a GOOD portion of the
gas from being burned. That's also why a wankel is known for lousy emmisions output. In my case, I now get to
burn ALL the gas, or damned near to it. While my 7 doesn't have anywhere near the snap, crackle and pop the wedge
does, it does on thing FAR better.... to wit: shoot fire out the exhaust with a loud bang. That bang is now gone,
so I have to be burning the excess gas that was wasted beforehand.
@gsx600 I don't know if I will. Half my joy in the wedge is not stepping on the gas, but rather letting off of it and hearing that glorious pop pop pop pop out the tail pipe. If I efectively burn that gas, my snap, crackle and pop is gone.... and that's no fun.
Brap_Brap said:
@gsx600 I don't know if I will. Half my joy in the wedge is not stepping on the gas, but rather letting off of it and hearing that glorious pop pop pop pop out the tail pipe. If I efectively burn that gas, my snap, crackle and pop is gone.... and that's no fun.
Yeah know what you mean, but I think I will try it on the 2.5v6 in the daily Vauxhall and also the V8 ambulance and see if that improves beyond 8mpg 
Sti;; get the loud pops in the 450 then Would love to see your plans, but the deal I saw also had a lot of info that I would like to learn about
I'll send you the plans, or give a link to them. I'd post it here with a link, but
don't want to piss off Petrol Ted over copyright issues. Send me a pm with your email and fire it off.
I never used plans per se myself, even having bought them. I'm a stubborn guy that likes to try his own stuff.
I more or less copied this guy's design... http://youtube.com/watch?v=L4DiT56sffU
[edit] P.S., the pdf includes more than just plans... also has FAQ's and theory dealt with.
don't want to piss off Petrol Ted over copyright issues. Send me a pm with your email and fire it off.
I never used plans per se myself, even having bought them. I'm a stubborn guy that likes to try his own stuff.
I more or less copied this guy's design... http://youtube.com/watch?v=L4DiT56sffU
[edit] P.S., the pdf includes more than just plans... also has FAQ's and theory dealt with.
Edited by Brap_Brap on Friday 4th July 23:06
Hey gsx, I stumbled across this today... http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf It's the plans for an apparently low amps, low temp hho generator. The author also has some insteresting stuff to say in this series of videos... http://youtube.com/watch?v=CxPQdrfSySI Definately worth a look.
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