Wedge v Griff ?.
Discussion
Of course Griefs had the tuscan race car suspension set up , tried and tested on track , they also are a very different shape if you like curvy which I don't , the wedge is a much more raw sports car , and it looks very mean and nasty in my view , the engines are about the same , except for the cats in the post 94 griefs ie dulls the thrills . IMHO I really like the wedge shape and with some mods the chassis/ suspension can be improved to handle quite well ie stiffened up .
To the untrained eye unfortunately (much as I love them), both Griffs and Chims
appear to be pumped up MX5s, and are too quiet, strangled as they are by those cats.
I much prefer their interiors, but not enough to lust after one.
I could not live with the 'hole' in the door...styling-wise it just looks plain crap.
A big Wedge is simply an unpretentious thug of a car, designed to thrill, and probably better-built than some later models.
appear to be pumped up MX5s, and are too quiet, strangled as they are by those cats.
I much prefer their interiors, but not enough to lust after one.
I could not live with the 'hole' in the door...styling-wise it just looks plain crap.
A big Wedge is simply an unpretentious thug of a car, designed to thrill, and probably better-built than some later models.
The Grief I got does everything fine, but thats it. Wots missing is the fun factor of burbling through little Welsh villages in numbers and then heading out into mid wales to scare some bikers in convoy. Tried it in the Grief and it wasn't the same.
It rides better than the wedge, goes around corners better, the fittings are better, the thing is screwed together better (except maybe the chassis treatment!) and is generally a better car.
Wedges and Griefs are different, the Grief is a modern classic but the Wedge will always be the odd one out in the crowd, which is part of the attraction IMHO.
MikeyB
It rides better than the wedge, goes around corners better, the fittings are better, the thing is screwed together better (except maybe the chassis treatment!) and is generally a better car.
Wedges and Griefs are different, the Grief is a modern classic but the Wedge will always be the odd one out in the crowd, which is part of the attraction IMHO.
MikeyB
As some have already mentioned, Wedges are different, they have that indescribable 'X factor' ... character if you will.
I speak from experience having owned a '99 Chimarea 450. Lovely car, built better, drove better but it lacked that...something.
I guess it also depends on what your 1st TVR was, and what influenced you when you first discovered TVR's.
Having lived in the 80's opposite the TVR dealership in Fernhurst, i remember them brand new. Like sweets in a jar. I would just stare at them through the showroom window.
I also love the 'brutal - what you looking at' looks, which i think the more rounded Tiv's lack..imo.
And there you have it... no definitive reason. You like what you like.
For me...Big Bad Wedges, everytime.
I speak from experience having owned a '99 Chimarea 450. Lovely car, built better, drove better but it lacked that...something.
I guess it also depends on what your 1st TVR was, and what influenced you when you first discovered TVR's.
Having lived in the 80's opposite the TVR dealership in Fernhurst, i remember them brand new. Like sweets in a jar. I would just stare at them through the showroom window.
I also love the 'brutal - what you looking at' looks, which i think the more rounded Tiv's lack..imo.
And there you have it... no definitive reason. You like what you like.
For me...Big Bad Wedges, everytime.
Edited by Waynester on Sunday 10th August 02:33
Waynester said:
As some have already mentioned, Wedges are different, they have that indescribable 'X factor' ... character if you will.
I speak from experience having owned a '99 Chimarea 450. Lovely car, built better, drove better but it lacked that...something.
I guess it also depends on what your 1st TVR was, and what influenced you when you first discovered TVR's.
Having lived in the 80's opposite the TVR dealership in Fernhurst, i remember them brand new. Like sweets in a jar. I would just stare at them through the showroom window.
I also love the 'brutal - what you looking at' looks, which i think the more rounded Tiv's lack..imo.
And there you have it... no definitive reason. You like what you like.
For me...Big Bad Wedges, everytime.
I speak from experience having owned a '99 Chimarea 450. Lovely car, built better, drove better but it lacked that...something.
I guess it also depends on what your 1st TVR was, and what influenced you when you first discovered TVR's.
Having lived in the 80's opposite the TVR dealership in Fernhurst, i remember them brand new. Like sweets in a jar. I would just stare at them through the showroom window.
I also love the 'brutal - what you looking at' looks, which i think the more rounded Tiv's lack..imo.
And there you have it... no definitive reason. You like what you like.
For me...Big Bad Wedges, everytime.
Edited by Waynester on Sunday 10th August 02:33
Yep !Edited by combine on Sunday 10th August 07:27
If it helps, I went from a 400se to a Chim 500 (very simular to a Griff mechanically). As PWD400 has already said, the Griff is the more modern and better car and does everything better than the wedge.
HOWEVER, the Wedge is a lot more fun. You won't get the same grin factor with a Griff as you do from a Wedge. The Wedge gets right under your skin and has the "sence of occaision" that you'll not get from a Griff.
My advice? get a Wedge.
HOWEVER, the Wedge is a lot more fun. You won't get the same grin factor with a Griff as you do from a Wedge. The Wedge gets right under your skin and has the "sence of occaision" that you'll not get from a Griff.
My advice? get a Wedge.
From somebody very new to the wedge and to TVR in general but having spent a little time at both the BBWF and GG this time around I can say without a doubt the wedge has more presence. No offense to all the Griff owners out there but the cars all look the same - they don't have the character of the wedge.
Walk down a line of 10 wedges and you'll be saying "oh like that - want to do that" or "they did what to it?" walk down a line of 10 Griffs and it'll be "seen it, seen it ,seen it, where's the bar?"
My opinion and ready to be flamed
Walk down a line of 10 wedges and you'll be saying "oh like that - want to do that" or "they did what to it?" walk down a line of 10 Griffs and it'll be "seen it, seen it ,seen it, where's the bar?"
My opinion and ready to be flamed
grahamw48 said:
too quiet, strangled as they are by those cats.
There are a good few pre cats around which sound good and many 500's that have been heavily modified and maybe too loud - I think there will be a DB thread in the Griff forum soon.I love the sound of some of the Wedges but some do sound a bit "normal".
Personally I love them both and now have both, ideally liked a big Wedge but funds don't permit.
I do think Griff and Wedge owners are the best and are pretty similar, or most are anyway. Enthusiastic, like playing around and trying different things - not so with some other V8 owners out there.
I think you either lovce Wedges or hate them. As you're looking at them I guess you like the styling so I'm sure whichever you chose you'll be happy.
Cadster - There aren't as many Griff models so the Wedges will always be more varied. If the weather had been better then maybe you'd have seen some more mods and changes from original. There are minimal changes between the first pre cats and the last 100. May see you Wednesday.
FFG
Edited by FlipFlopGriff on Monday 11th August 13:07
I love my Wedge (aka Wedgeinald) I don't know about the Chim/Griff etc as not owned one.
I like the look of the Chim and not so keen on the look of the Griff.....
But the Wedge is definately "essence of driving" and gives good "silly grin" factor.
I've only had it just under 1 month at this stage but can't think of any previous car I've had any where near as much fun in.
I LOVE the sound on MY wedge (a little louder than other 280's I've heard)
Just my 10p worth
Norman
I like the look of the Chim and not so keen on the look of the Griff.....
But the Wedge is definately "essence of driving" and gives good "silly grin" factor.
I've only had it just under 1 month at this stage but can't think of any previous car I've had any where near as much fun in.
I LOVE the sound on MY wedge (a little louder than other 280's I've heard)
Just my 10p worth
Norman
I'm lucky enough to have owned 4 wedges a Griff and most recently a Sag. In general TVR's have got better and better over the years in terms of reliability and living with the cars on a daily basis - for instance all wedges mist up badly in the wet and some metal parts on early cars weren't painted so just rusted away! It's also advisable to buy the latest you can afford as all TVR's were 'honed' by the owners of early examples.
My thoughts on the models I've owned:
280i 2+2: Bought second-hand, lots of problems, basically under developed. Awkward styling, especially from the front wheels forward. Only kept a few months and wouldn't recommend.
350i Series 2: Bought second-hand, a good solid car, kept for around 18 months no major issues. Only changed for more power as car always looked faster than it really was.
390SE: Bought new, another good solid car. Better sounding than 350 and significantly faster and better handling. Probably the most underrated wedge. Recently saw this for sale again on here with 98K miles and still looked good.
450SE: Bought new, one of only 35 made and loved it to death. A sound to die for! Engine rebuild around 25K miles but otherwise totally solid. Probably had more track days in this car than any other I've owned and was well suited to smooth surfaces. Saw many a Ferrari and early Griff's disappear in the rear-view mirror. About the same track performance as a 4.3 Griff. Reluctantly sold after 5 years and 60K miles, one I probably should have kept forever. Hope she is still around (Arctic White, Full Nimbus & Grey Leather)
Griffith 500: A significant advance over any wedge. Easier to live with, faster, better handling. Finally bought a secondhand one when I was consistently being overtaken on track days. Kept for 4 years and only major issue was 5th gear disintegrating for no good reason. Again found this car very very hard to part with and should probably have kept this one too!
So, its down to what is most important to you. If you like the look of a wedge and can live with the limitations of an older design both practically and esthetically then go for a 390/400/450. The 450 also makes the best sound of any standard TVR ever made IMHO. If you want something you can use every day and is faster and better handling than any wedge go for a Griff 500. I personally wouldn't buy an earlier one as customers were still developing them.
My thoughts on the models I've owned:
280i 2+2: Bought second-hand, lots of problems, basically under developed. Awkward styling, especially from the front wheels forward. Only kept a few months and wouldn't recommend.
350i Series 2: Bought second-hand, a good solid car, kept for around 18 months no major issues. Only changed for more power as car always looked faster than it really was.
390SE: Bought new, another good solid car. Better sounding than 350 and significantly faster and better handling. Probably the most underrated wedge. Recently saw this for sale again on here with 98K miles and still looked good.
450SE: Bought new, one of only 35 made and loved it to death. A sound to die for! Engine rebuild around 25K miles but otherwise totally solid. Probably had more track days in this car than any other I've owned and was well suited to smooth surfaces. Saw many a Ferrari and early Griff's disappear in the rear-view mirror. About the same track performance as a 4.3 Griff. Reluctantly sold after 5 years and 60K miles, one I probably should have kept forever. Hope she is still around (Arctic White, Full Nimbus & Grey Leather)
Griffith 500: A significant advance over any wedge. Easier to live with, faster, better handling. Finally bought a secondhand one when I was consistently being overtaken on track days. Kept for 4 years and only major issue was 5th gear disintegrating for no good reason. Again found this car very very hard to part with and should probably have kept this one too!
So, its down to what is most important to you. If you like the look of a wedge and can live with the limitations of an older design both practically and esthetically then go for a 390/400/450. The 450 also makes the best sound of any standard TVR ever made IMHO. If you want something you can use every day and is faster and better handling than any wedge go for a Griff 500. I personally wouldn't buy an earlier one as customers were still developing them.
Englishman said:
I'm lucky enough to have owned 4 wedges a Griff and most recently a Sag. In general TVR's have got better and better over the years in terms of reliability and living with the cars on a daily basis - for instance all wedges mist up badly in the wet and some metal parts on early cars weren't painted so just rusted away! It's also advisable to buy the latest you can afford as all TVR's were 'honed' by the owners of early examples.
My thoughts on the models I've owned:
280i 2+2: Bought second-hand, lots of problems, basically under developed. Awkward styling, especially from the front wheels forward. Only kept a few months and wouldn't recommend.
350i Series 2: Bought second-hand, a good solid car, kept for around 18 months no major issues. Only changed for more power as car always looked faster than it really was.
390SE: Bought new, another good solid car. Better sounding than 350 and significantly faster and better handling. Probably the most underrated wedge. Recently saw this for sale again on here with 98K miles and still looked good.
450SE: Bought new, one of only 35 made and loved it to death. A sound to die for! Engine rebuild around 25K miles but otherwise totally solid. Probably had more track days in this car than any other I've owned and was well suited to smooth surfaces. Saw many a Ferrari and early Griff's disappear in the rear-view mirror. About the same track performance as a 4.3 Griff. Reluctantly sold after 5 years and 60K miles, one I probably should have kept forever. Hope she is still around (Arctic White, Full Nimbus & Grey Leather)
Griffith 500: A significant advance over any wedge. Easier to live with, faster, better handling. Finally bought a secondhand one when I was consistently being overtaken on track days. Kept for 4 years and only major issue was 5th gear disintegrating for no good reason. Again found this car very very hard to part with and should probably have kept this one too!
So, its down to what is most important to you. If you like the look of a wedge and can live with the limitations of an older design both practically and esthetically then go for a 390/400/450. The 450 also makes the best sound of any standard TVR ever made IMHO. If you want something you can use every day and is faster and better handling than any wedge go for a Griff 500. I personally wouldn't buy an earlier one as customers were still developing them.
I think that's probably spot on. My thoughts on the models I've owned:
280i 2+2: Bought second-hand, lots of problems, basically under developed. Awkward styling, especially from the front wheels forward. Only kept a few months and wouldn't recommend.
350i Series 2: Bought second-hand, a good solid car, kept for around 18 months no major issues. Only changed for more power as car always looked faster than it really was.
390SE: Bought new, another good solid car. Better sounding than 350 and significantly faster and better handling. Probably the most underrated wedge. Recently saw this for sale again on here with 98K miles and still looked good.
450SE: Bought new, one of only 35 made and loved it to death. A sound to die for! Engine rebuild around 25K miles but otherwise totally solid. Probably had more track days in this car than any other I've owned and was well suited to smooth surfaces. Saw many a Ferrari and early Griff's disappear in the rear-view mirror. About the same track performance as a 4.3 Griff. Reluctantly sold after 5 years and 60K miles, one I probably should have kept forever. Hope she is still around (Arctic White, Full Nimbus & Grey Leather)
Griffith 500: A significant advance over any wedge. Easier to live with, faster, better handling. Finally bought a secondhand one when I was consistently being overtaken on track days. Kept for 4 years and only major issue was 5th gear disintegrating for no good reason. Again found this car very very hard to part with and should probably have kept this one too!
So, its down to what is most important to you. If you like the look of a wedge and can live with the limitations of an older design both practically and esthetically then go for a 390/400/450. The 450 also makes the best sound of any standard TVR ever made IMHO. If you want something you can use every day and is faster and better handling than any wedge go for a Griff 500. I personally wouldn't buy an earlier one as customers were still developing them.
The bigger Wedges really are proper beasts & really do take some handling & sound absolutely glorious.
Edited by pwd95 on Tuesday 12th August 16:12
Just my tuppence worth, having owned (in order) 350i (4 years) Griff 500 (18 months) 390SE (3.5 years) & Griff precat 400 (18 Months):
In performance terms the Griff 500 is undeniably far quicker than anything else I've driven, the 350i made the best noise, closely followed by Griff 400. The 390Se and Griff 400 were very similar in performance. Note complete absence of Chimaera
In terms of looks I actually liked the 390SE (mk2) best, it was so different to everything else on the road and the Mk2 had a few more rounded bits than a 350i but...... 90% of non-wedge owners seem to prefer the shape of the Griff.
In terms of driving experience I'd say the Griffs I had felt more "modern" and had better handling/brakes - but thats a very personal opinion and not backed up by any technical (or driving) ability !
What spoilt the Griffs for me was the massive amount of heat that soaked into the cockpit... in the 500 (an early one) it was really quite uncomfortable on hot sunny days even with roof down.
It is interesting that early Griffs and late Wedges are now very similarly priced (depending on model/condition) whereas only 3 or so years ago there was a massive gulf... will be interesting to see if Wedges are worth more than Griffs soon ...
For me the decider is that when I return to the fold in a couple of years after my foray into Datsun GTR territory I'll be looking for a Wedge not a Griff
In performance terms the Griff 500 is undeniably far quicker than anything else I've driven, the 350i made the best noise, closely followed by Griff 400. The 390Se and Griff 400 were very similar in performance. Note complete absence of Chimaera
In terms of looks I actually liked the 390SE (mk2) best, it was so different to everything else on the road and the Mk2 had a few more rounded bits than a 350i but...... 90% of non-wedge owners seem to prefer the shape of the Griff.
In terms of driving experience I'd say the Griffs I had felt more "modern" and had better handling/brakes - but thats a very personal opinion and not backed up by any technical (or driving) ability !
What spoilt the Griffs for me was the massive amount of heat that soaked into the cockpit... in the 500 (an early one) it was really quite uncomfortable on hot sunny days even with roof down.
It is interesting that early Griffs and late Wedges are now very similarly priced (depending on model/condition) whereas only 3 or so years ago there was a massive gulf... will be interesting to see if Wedges are worth more than Griffs soon ...
For me the decider is that when I return to the fold in a couple of years after my foray into Datsun GTR territory I'll be looking for a Wedge not a Griff
To add some more to the Griff side, although I am a little biased but not much, I have 2 Griffs a 97 500 and a 92 4.3BV (an original one not an upgrade) and they drive very differently. The 500 is quicker overall but not by that much but the BV sounds better and obviously doesn't have/need cats to pass an MoT legitimately. They are both good to drive but the BV seems roar in comparison.
The 4.3 is considered the best engine variant and also the one to go for as most likely to be the classic in the future.
The early 500's are the least popular and that is reflected in prices.
Now got a 280FHC, and had the Taimar since 1990 so been around TVR circles for a long time now.
The Griff is the only TVR to win a design award but at the end of the day TVR production is very low (2,500 Griffs ever built compared with 93,000 E type Jags) so rare on todays roads that they are all great (except Chimps). I'd love a Vixen but Mrs FFG would kill me if I bought one.
FFG
The 4.3 is considered the best engine variant and also the one to go for as most likely to be the classic in the future.
The early 500's are the least popular and that is reflected in prices.
Now got a 280FHC, and had the Taimar since 1990 so been around TVR circles for a long time now.
The Griff is the only TVR to win a design award but at the end of the day TVR production is very low (2,500 Griffs ever built compared with 93,000 E type Jags) so rare on todays roads that they are all great (except Chimps). I'd love a Vixen but Mrs FFG would kill me if I bought one.
FFG
gsx600 said:
Wedge everytime. Mine is driving superb now, having just come back from Griff Growl looked at few Griffs but none seemed to have folding roofs 
Mind you did like the look of the LS1 5.7 l engines in a couple of Griffs . I wonder
Paul,Mind you did like the look of the LS1 5.7 l engines in a couple of Griffs . I wonder
It was raining a bit and I know you all took the roof's off at the White Horse (seen it being done a few years back when it was raining)!!
The Norwegian Griff has a stock LS2 (I think) and it pulled 408bhp and 440 torque before it hit the rev limiter (straight out of the box with no mods).
Good to see all the Wedges on Saturday (and Chris on Sunday).
FFG
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