Discussion
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1197040.htm
Hmmmm....
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1152851.htm
Hmmmm....
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1152851.htm
Edited by grahamw48 on Monday 17th August 22:15
One of the cousins on this side of the pond (TR7&TVR) went to put in a 302 in his 280 and...
"For some reason I could not make any power. It felt like my 302 was a 4 cyl. I started unplugging plug wires and found that I had 4 dead cylinders. So I revisited the firing order of a 302, and I was hooked up right. Just for the fun of it I looked up the firing order on a 351. Then redid my wires. WOW, I HAVE A 351! The head sits a little higher in a 351 and that explains why my exhaust was sooooo hard to fit. But now it is in and everything is looking better. So now I guess instead of a 280i I have a 580?"
"For some reason I could not make any power. It felt like my 302 was a 4 cyl. I started unplugging plug wires and found that I had 4 dead cylinders. So I revisited the firing order of a 302, and I was hooked up right. Just for the fun of it I looked up the firing order on a 351. Then redid my wires. WOW, I HAVE A 351! The head sits a little higher in a 351 and that explains why my exhaust was sooooo hard to fit. But now it is in and everything is looking better. So now I guess instead of a 280i I have a 580?"
I believe it's the same block...same basic engine. Maybe one of our cousins from across the pond can advise, (where they've already done this conversion) but I can't see that engine hanging around for long anyway.
Perhaps Wedg1e can give you some tips if you're fancying an Esprit.
I've always fancied using the old school Mustang engine in 'something' lightweight, and may as well start with re-build job.
Oops...beat me to it Grady.
Perhaps Wedg1e can give you some tips if you're fancying an Esprit.
I've always fancied using the old school Mustang engine in 'something' lightweight, and may as well start with re-build job.
Oops...beat me to it Grady.
Edited by grahamw48 on Monday 17th August 23:09
grahamw48 said:
Don't you realise thats a V6 FHC........Just waiting for
Regards,
Chris.
grahamw48 said:
Perhaps Wedg1e can give you some tips if you're fancying an Esprit.
Of course! That one on Ebay: leave it as a shed, strip it out and use it as a track car. The Esprit is very good at what it does but is just not as much of an occasion to drive as a TVR wedge. The interiors look tired very quickly and there's far more of the 'rough' side of the GRP exposed.Galvanised chassis is a must; they rot like TVRs otherwise.
ed_crouch said:
351 - anyone got a small yacht they want sinking?
Those engines are dangerous - if you collocate more than 3 the immense weight of the engines creates a black hole and the whole universe will be destroyed.
Get some aluminium in your life - Chev LS motor. Muuuuuch lighter.
Just doing a few calculations...here's me list so far...Those engines are dangerous - if you collocate more than 3 the immense weight of the engines creates a black hole and the whole universe will be destroyed.
Get some aluminium in your life - Chev LS motor. Muuuuuch lighter.
http://www.geocities.com/fordcustom1958/FordEngine...
Also estimating how much concrete to put in the spare wheel, to balance things up.
ed_crouch said:
351 - anyone got a small yacht they want sinking?
Those engines are dangerous - if you collocate more than 3 the immense weight of the engines creates a black hole and the whole universe will be destroyed.
Get some aluminium in your life - Chev LS motor. Muuuuuch lighter.
No wonder no light ever escaped out of Detroit..Those engines are dangerous - if you collocate more than 3 the immense weight of the engines creates a black hole and the whole universe will be destroyed.
Get some aluminium in your life - Chev LS motor. Muuuuuch lighter.
Now, now chaps....
Firstly, the original engine for a Pantera should be a 351 Cleveland, not a Windsor, although the Windsor can be made to fit.
The 351C (4v) was always an engine that made great bhp at high revs due to it's (huge) cyl head port design. The Windsor - well, more easily tuned with argueably better, and less expensive parts availability.
But, with alloy cylinder heads and alloy inlet manifold, the weight of a 351C can be controlled (a little!).
And, they can easily produce over 550bhp and accept efi with no problem.
How do I know this? 'Cos I'm building a 351C for my early Pantera....except it'll be a 393ci when I'm done.
But will it fit a TVR - who knows...?
Firstly, the original engine for a Pantera should be a 351 Cleveland, not a Windsor, although the Windsor can be made to fit.
The 351C (4v) was always an engine that made great bhp at high revs due to it's (huge) cyl head port design. The Windsor - well, more easily tuned with argueably better, and less expensive parts availability.
But, with alloy cylinder heads and alloy inlet manifold, the weight of a 351C can be controlled (a little!).
And, they can easily produce over 550bhp and accept efi with no problem.
How do I know this? 'Cos I'm building a 351C for my early Pantera....except it'll be a 393ci when I'm done.
But will it fit a TVR - who knows...?
I'm sure it can be made to fit a Moggy, as it has been done before. It's all the rest that needs doing that makes it a MAJOR project(ile), and a RV8 would make more sense in that situation.
However, the Wedge comes with most of the basics in place, as regards drivetrain and ease of upgrading of some components...ie brakes.
The daft thing is that you can probably pick up a half decent Wedge cheaper than you can a Moggy thou' or similar cute little dinosaur.
However, the Wedge comes with most of the basics in place, as regards drivetrain and ease of upgrading of some components...ie brakes.
The daft thing is that you can probably pick up a half decent Wedge cheaper than you can a Moggy thou' or similar cute little dinosaur.
Richard,
You're right re the Panteras using the Cleveland and not the Windsor.
It was sometime I believe in the late 80's when the 351C supply finally ran dry and the 351W 's were fitted into the last Pantera's and the short lived Pantera Si.
BTW the Windsor does not produce the same power as the Cleveland which is arguably Fords best ever small block.
If you want to cut through the pub BS just look what the vast majority of the anual engine masters competition engines have been based around, yes, Fords 351 Cleveland. Chevy's rarely get a lookin. A naurally aspirated 1,000 bhp from a single 4-barrel carb's engine ain't bad!
The very last RHD Pantera, circa 1989/90 belongs to an aquaintence of mine and is factory fitted with a Windsor:
or if you'd prefer it how it should be driven:
and the later Si also as stated above fitted with the Windsor and not as quick as earlier cars:
Phil
420 SEAC
De Tomaso Longchamp GTS with 408ci Cleveland, CHI heads yadda yadda yadda 500+ BHP.
You're right re the Panteras using the Cleveland and not the Windsor.
It was sometime I believe in the late 80's when the 351C supply finally ran dry and the 351W 's were fitted into the last Pantera's and the short lived Pantera Si.
BTW the Windsor does not produce the same power as the Cleveland which is arguably Fords best ever small block.
If you want to cut through the pub BS just look what the vast majority of the anual engine masters competition engines have been based around, yes, Fords 351 Cleveland. Chevy's rarely get a lookin. A naurally aspirated 1,000 bhp from a single 4-barrel carb's engine ain't bad!
The very last RHD Pantera, circa 1989/90 belongs to an aquaintence of mine and is factory fitted with a Windsor:
or if you'd prefer it how it should be driven:
and the later Si also as stated above fitted with the Windsor and not as quick as earlier cars:
Phil
420 SEAC
De Tomaso Longchamp GTS with 408ci Cleveland, CHI heads yadda yadda yadda 500+ BHP.
grahamw48 said:
I believe it's the same block...same basic engine. Maybe one of our cousins from across the pond can advise, (where they've already done this conversion) but I can't see that engine hanging around for long anyway.
Perhaps Wedg1e can give you some tips if you're fancying an Esprit.
I've always fancied using the old school Mustang engine in 'something' lightweight, and may as well start with re-build job.
Oops...beat me to it Grady.
A 351 is both wider and taller than a 302 small block so be careful.Perhaps Wedg1e can give you some tips if you're fancying an Esprit.
I've always fancied using the old school Mustang engine in 'something' lightweight, and may as well start with re-build job.
Oops...beat me to it Grady.
Edited by grahamw48 on Monday 17th August 23:09
And don't believe any pub talk about the cleveland being any more or less powerfull than a windsor. In std smog form all american V8's are hopeless its only when you have de-smogged and built them properly with better heads, compression, screw in studs intake and ignition etc etc that they get better.
a windsor based engine will make just as much power as a cleveland in your general hotted up car. Cleveland was built for Nascar and in std form was not as good as a windsor (less torque) It was primarily a homologation engine to be built upon for racing. Clevelands are very rare and for general hot rodding are far less interchangeable regards parts than the windsor. They have a different pushrod and valve arrangement and different firing order than the windsor. all fordsare very good as a good tourqey engine the Cleveland though is very much the tempremental thoroughbred to the Old shire windsor
as for weight well the "I only recognise an LS" brigade mustn't have any real experience with iron engines. The Small block when fitted with aluminium heads and intake doesn't really weigh that much more than an LS. it is also a lot more compact, a lot cheaper to buy and tune and in reality a lot more open for abuse. these were the first engines to use high nodular iron and thin wall casting techniques. They were very advanced for their day and give bullet proof reliability some 40 years later
Give me a ford or Chevy boat anchor any day of the week. I keep seeing a lot of very complex engine conversions being carried out on very simple up ended tower cranes these days??
Now if you really want a rare engine look for a 4V 4 bolt Boss 302
N.
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 24th August 21:38
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 24th August 22:03
Thanks for the input heightswitch.
I was thinking more of a 302, as this is what some of the North American Wedgers have used in their cars.
As a keen fan of dragracing I do know what Yank V8s are capable of, but even in standard form, it's the well-proven reliability and longevity of these engines which is so impressive, but if you think of how much practice the Americans have had at producing V8s, then that should hardly be a surprise.
Of course I'd have the tape measure out and do some research before spending any cash.
I was thinking more of a 302, as this is what some of the North American Wedgers have used in their cars.
As a keen fan of dragracing I do know what Yank V8s are capable of, but even in standard form, it's the well-proven reliability and longevity of these engines which is so impressive, but if you think of how much practice the Americans have had at producing V8s, then that should hardly be a surprise.
Of course I'd have the tape measure out and do some research before spending any cash.
....Nurse...wipe me...
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