HT Lead set up...VERY embarrasing!
Discussion
Hi All,
Firstly it may be news to you all that i still exist and i spent some more time on the wedge trying to diagnose my random ignition fault...
Since changing all sensors, swapping ECU and flapper, im going back to basics for its annual service and do the plugs, leads and dizzy cap (all unipart original quality and NGK plugs).
Anyway, i managed to put the cap the wrong way round so needed 180 degrees of turning. As i was moving the plugs around i have managed to get mixed up and now have no idea what way they go! s
tE!!!
I found a manual for the V8 and that the firing order is 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2
Cylinders 1, 3, 5, 7 - LH side of engine (is that the side of the plenim in take/afm etc??)
Cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8 - RH side of engine
Question is, where does it start on the dizzy? HELP!!
Cheers (and yes i am feeling very stupid having to post this!)
PS - this helps but not sure where to start on the cap...
Firstly it may be news to you all that i still exist and i spent some more time on the wedge trying to diagnose my random ignition fault...
Since changing all sensors, swapping ECU and flapper, im going back to basics for its annual service and do the plugs, leads and dizzy cap (all unipart original quality and NGK plugs).
Anyway, i managed to put the cap the wrong way round so needed 180 degrees of turning. As i was moving the plugs around i have managed to get mixed up and now have no idea what way they go! s
tE!!!I found a manual for the V8 and that the firing order is 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2
Cylinders 1, 3, 5, 7 - LH side of engine (is that the side of the plenim in take/afm etc??)
Cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8 - RH side of engine
Question is, where does it start on the dizzy? HELP!!
Cheers (and yes i am feeling very stupid having to post this!)
PS - this helps but not sure where to start on the cap...
Edited by matt-man on Tuesday 20th October 21:00
GV said:
No1 on the dizzy cap is the nearest connector to the No1 cylinder and is the shortest lead...
You can't assume that, because the #1 position depends where the rotor arm was pointing when the dizzy was fitted. Give it a try by all means, but prepare for it to be wrong. If it is wrong, your options are turn the engine over with your thumb over #1 plug hole until you find TDC compression and then fit the #1 lead on the tower that the rotor arm points to (the others then follow in order) or simply try moving them round one position at a time until you get some signs of life. There are only 8 options, after all. (Best to disconnect the pump 50% of the time to reduce the risk of flooding while you do this.)Cheers guys...
OK - so I have only got a couple i am unsure of so i think that i should be able to make this work...
If i can work out where 1 should be, i guess i can work from there...
Can i assume that it will only run when the right combination?
What a stupid thing to do - ive changed thousands of these before!
OK - so I have only got a couple i am unsure of so i think that i should be able to make this work...
If i can work out where 1 should be, i guess i can work from there...
Can i assume that it will only run when the right combination?
What a stupid thing to do - ive changed thousands of these before!
Ignition timing
The crank pulley has a TDC mark and several 4 degree marks either side of it, plus either a raised arrow or a pointer at the top on the timing cover to help you. The engine and dizzy both normally turn clockwise, so the 8BTDC mark will be two divisions to the right of the TDC mark.
Turn the crank to about 8 BTDC. Turn the dizzy so that the vac. unit is at 9 o'clock and terminal 1 (cylinder1) at 6 o'clock. Turn the rotor arm so it's at about 4 o'clock. Insert dizzy in hole noting that it probably won't go completely in cos it hasn't engaged with the oil pump. Check that the rotor arm is nearly pointing at 6 o'clock. Fit securing plate and tighten till you can still just turn the dizzy without force. Spin engine. Dizzy will engage oil pump and drop down. Check rotor arm is at 6 o'clock or 12 o'clock when engine is at 8 BTDC. Tighten retaining bolt. Start engine. If nothing happens then timing is 180 out so turn engine to 8 BTDC, check position of rotor arm, if at 12 o'clock, remove dizzy and repeat operation above so that it's at 6 o'clock, otherwise turn crank 360 degrees, remove dizzy and repeat operation.
Clear as mud? Easy when you actually get hands on. It's not as bad as it reads but you have to think about what's going on a bit cos there are two engine rotations for every dizzy rotation and the firing stroke for cylinder 1 and 6 are 1 rotation apart so it's possible to time it up for the wrong cylinder. Try it and see what happens.
The crank pulley has a TDC mark and several 4 degree marks either side of it, plus either a raised arrow or a pointer at the top on the timing cover to help you. The engine and dizzy both normally turn clockwise, so the 8BTDC mark will be two divisions to the right of the TDC mark.
Turn the crank to about 8 BTDC. Turn the dizzy so that the vac. unit is at 9 o'clock and terminal 1 (cylinder1) at 6 o'clock. Turn the rotor arm so it's at about 4 o'clock. Insert dizzy in hole noting that it probably won't go completely in cos it hasn't engaged with the oil pump. Check that the rotor arm is nearly pointing at 6 o'clock. Fit securing plate and tighten till you can still just turn the dizzy without force. Spin engine. Dizzy will engage oil pump and drop down. Check rotor arm is at 6 o'clock or 12 o'clock when engine is at 8 BTDC. Tighten retaining bolt. Start engine. If nothing happens then timing is 180 out so turn engine to 8 BTDC, check position of rotor arm, if at 12 o'clock, remove dizzy and repeat operation above so that it's at 6 o'clock, otherwise turn crank 360 degrees, remove dizzy and repeat operation.
Clear as mud? Easy when you actually get hands on. It's not as bad as it reads but you have to think about what's going on a bit cos there are two engine rotations for every dizzy rotation and the firing stroke for cylinder 1 and 6 are 1 rotation apart so it's possible to time it up for the wrong cylinder. Try it and see what happens.
matt-man said:
Cheers guys...
OK - so I have only got a couple i am unsure of so i think that i should be able to make this work...
If i can work out where 1 should be, i guess i can work from there...
Can i assume that it will only run when the right combination?
What a stupid thing to do - ive changed thousands of these before!
You probably already know this but ..OK - so I have only got a couple i am unsure of so i think that i should be able to make this work...
If i can work out where 1 should be, i guess i can work from there...
Can i assume that it will only run when the right combination?
What a stupid thing to do - ive changed thousands of these before!
Your over confidence is your weakness - young padawan.
Edited by rev-erend on Wednesday 21st October 09:56
honestjohntoo said:
This is extracted from the upcoming RV8 ignition manual and shows my set-up mostly favoured to gain easy access to ignition module and vacuum advance fixings, and the retaining clips.
The firing order starting with No.1 is clockwise.
OK - that looks like what i need. I am hoping that ll i will need to do is just re plug and not reset anything. The firing order starting with No.1 is clockwise.
Just to confirm - on this photo, it is taken from the front of the car with the bonnet off? I.E right had side is passenger side?
I ask as the coil lead goes to the right but as standard its off to the left...?!
Cheers for all your helps guys
This may not work for you but this is Top Dead Centre Cylinder 1 on my car, handily line up the ignition module with the metalwork of the front cover and get the rotor arm lined up with the screw on the dizzy.
You may need to remove & replace the dizzy a few times with the drive cog rotated slightly each time to finally get it right.
Edited to add - if you've got a bloody great big bracket on the front of the nearside cylinder head like the pic earlier in the thread then it won't work.
You may need to remove & replace the dizzy a few times with the drive cog rotated slightly each time to finally get it right.
Edited to add - if you've got a bloody great big bracket on the front of the nearside cylinder head like the pic earlier in the thread then it won't work.
Edited by Barkychoc on Wednesday 21st October 19:29
Barkychoc said:
if you've got a bloody great big bracket on the front of the nearside cylinder head like the pic earlier in the thread then it won't work.
Yes, that does compromise any positional freedom, the bracket on my RV8 is for the Aircon compressor.Essentially the dissy can be in any physically possible radial position you wish - the key issue being that when the No 1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke then the business end of rotor arm must be under the No 1 plug lead of the cap and the clockwise sequence must still be as shown starting with No 1.
don't worry matt, i done exactly the same as you, had to turn the dissy cap around to the right postion but thought i would be ok when putting the leads back on because i had a manual, how wrong was i 
the manual showed that no.1 should be at 5 o'clock, me and my neighbour spent a good hour checking and rechecking but still wouldn't start, it was only fortunate that the old dissy and leads were still in the bin and no.1 lead was at 7 o'clock.
the manual showed that no.1 should be at 5 o'clock, me and my neighbour spent a good hour checking and rechecking but still wouldn't start, it was only fortunate that the old dissy and leads were still in the bin and no.1 lead was at 7 o'clock. I think this has all been covered with you previously, but time to try again, if you are ready?
A general approach to intermittant ignition problems is to creep up on the fault before it occurs, so you can pounce immediately it appears and its a lot easier with a system that runs.
First, your circuit will be something like this.
Guaranteed Foolproof Intermittent Ignition Fault Finder. Please notify of errors/omissions.
Rig up two 4/5 watt 12 volt bulbs (or better still, 2V, 15mA LED's + 680 ohm resistors) on test leads into the cabin and connect one between coil +ve and earth and the other to coil -ve and earth. Mark the bulbs POS and NEG. Beware cables dont foul hot/moving parts.
Start the engine and observe:
POS sensing the ignition input voltage is permanantly on,
AND
NEG sensing the pulsed voltage across the Ignition Amplifier flickers in sympathy with engine rpm, or is dimly lit (LED's flicker better).
Now drive the car and have a helper note what happens when the engine misbehaves.
If POS and NEG go out together there is an open circuit interruption of the 12 v feed such as a faulty wire/ignition switch,
OR
A short on the same circuit due to burned insulation.
If NEG comes full on the Ignition Amplifier (due to excess internal heat) or its associated wiring/earth has failed in open circuit mode,
OR
The pulsed input (ie Hall Effect or Reluctor) to the amplifier from the dizzy has failed or the associated wiring is faulty/shorting to earth,
OR
The Coil has failed in a short circuit mode (unlikely cos it would surely kill the amplifier methinks?)
If NEG goes out the Ignition Amplifier has temporarily failed in short circuit mode due to excess internal heat,
OR
the local wiring is shorting to earth,
OR
The coil has failed in open circuit mode due to insulation breakdown or internal heat
If POS stays lit and NEG show signs of flickering instability not sympathetic with engine rpm, then the Ignition Amplifier or its connections are on the blink.
It may be impractical for you to deal with the above in which case, no choice:
Back to Basics
The above circuit represents BOTH the system where the amplifier is mounted behind the coil AND where it is mounted on the side of the dizzy. The effective electrics are the same, just the physical locations of components differ.
You need to be sure your car wiring from the ignition switch, through to the coil, dizzy and amplifier module is pretty much the same.
o Remove the king lead from the distributor, connect it to a spark plug and lay the plug on the engine somewhere.
o Switch on the ignition and use your multimeter to verify there are 12 volts at coil positive.
o If No - find out why by checking further back in the circuit between coil positive and the ignition switch and beyond to the battery.
o If Yes - crank the engine.
o Is there a spark at the spark plug.
o If Yes - then the problems are downstream at the dizzy cap, rotor arm, plug leads or plugs, so that is where to look - choose your suspects and fix.
o If No - change the king lead and - If still No - then the problems are upstream at the coil, amplifier, distributor or its innards.
o Next, with ignition on, take a jump lead and briefly touch coil negative to earth. Watch for a spark at the spark plug.
o If No - Then the coil is faulty. Change it for a known good 12 volt unit.
o If Yes - Then the problem is with the amplifier, dizzy or its innards.
o See below for coil and amplifier tests. Courtesy of TVR owners Wedg1e and others hereabouts -
o If that does not solve the problem then the Dizzy Reluctor/Pick-up Coil or its other innards are not working and they have to be changed for a known good dizzy or innards.
You can check out the coil this way:
o Disconnect the amp.
o Strike coil neg to earth with a flying lead and see how good is the king lead spark.
o If spark is bad the input voltage and coil are candidates for inspection/replacement.
o If sparks are good look for amp/pickup probs.
Here is an amp/pickup test.
o Take distributor cap off.
o Disconnect ECU trigger wire so no spurious signal go thataway.
o Disconnect coil neg wire from amp.
o Wire a 12v 21W bulb from amp to coil pos (12 volt supply).
o The 21W bulb acts as a substitute load.
o Turn ignition on.
o Rotate distributor rotor back and forward against the vac advance springs.
o As the rotor triggers the pickup, the amp should flash the light.
o If the lamp flashing is positive and consistent one can be pretty sure the amp/pickup are working correctly.
If after all the above nothing is faulty:
o Another possible component failure could be the suppressing capacitor which is breaking down under the back-EMF from the coil.
OR
o Some LT wiring is corroded or otherwise failing.
If all the above check out then the downstream components must be reviewed, again to see if they are intermittently dragging down the energy.
o Rotor arm
o Dizzy cap
o Leads,
o Plugs
Moving on
1 check ignition timing.
2 Check the engine running signal from coil negative goes to pin 1 of the ECU via the 6800 ohm resistor.
3 Check components such as coolant temp sensor, AFM, etc.
4 Check for rogue air leaks and connector corrosion prob.
Get everything you need from the archive index found here:
http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Rover_Te...
matt-man said:
I have fixed the problem .....Problem is still there though so i am totally lost... 
And the original problem wasmatt-man said:
i spent some more time on the wedge trying to diagnose my random ignition fault...
Since changing all sensors, swapping ECU and flapper,
Observation: If you had/have a random ignition problem, concentrate all efforts thereabouts, not on the Efi system.Since changing all sensors, swapping ECU and flapper,
A general approach to intermittant ignition problems is to creep up on the fault before it occurs, so you can pounce immediately it appears and its a lot easier with a system that runs.
First, your circuit will be something like this.
Guaranteed Foolproof Intermittent Ignition Fault Finder. Please notify of errors/omissions.
Rig up two 4/5 watt 12 volt bulbs (or better still, 2V, 15mA LED's + 680 ohm resistors) on test leads into the cabin and connect one between coil +ve and earth and the other to coil -ve and earth. Mark the bulbs POS and NEG. Beware cables dont foul hot/moving parts.
Start the engine and observe:
POS sensing the ignition input voltage is permanantly on,
AND
NEG sensing the pulsed voltage across the Ignition Amplifier flickers in sympathy with engine rpm, or is dimly lit (LED's flicker better).
Now drive the car and have a helper note what happens when the engine misbehaves.
If POS and NEG go out together there is an open circuit interruption of the 12 v feed such as a faulty wire/ignition switch,
OR
A short on the same circuit due to burned insulation.
If NEG comes full on the Ignition Amplifier (due to excess internal heat) or its associated wiring/earth has failed in open circuit mode,
OR
The pulsed input (ie Hall Effect or Reluctor) to the amplifier from the dizzy has failed or the associated wiring is faulty/shorting to earth,
OR
The Coil has failed in a short circuit mode (unlikely cos it would surely kill the amplifier methinks?)
If NEG goes out the Ignition Amplifier has temporarily failed in short circuit mode due to excess internal heat,
OR
the local wiring is shorting to earth,
OR
The coil has failed in open circuit mode due to insulation breakdown or internal heat
If POS stays lit and NEG show signs of flickering instability not sympathetic with engine rpm, then the Ignition Amplifier or its connections are on the blink.
It may be impractical for you to deal with the above in which case, no choice:
Back to Basics
The above circuit represents BOTH the system where the amplifier is mounted behind the coil AND where it is mounted on the side of the dizzy. The effective electrics are the same, just the physical locations of components differ.
You need to be sure your car wiring from the ignition switch, through to the coil, dizzy and amplifier module is pretty much the same.
o Remove the king lead from the distributor, connect it to a spark plug and lay the plug on the engine somewhere.
o Switch on the ignition and use your multimeter to verify there are 12 volts at coil positive.
o If No - find out why by checking further back in the circuit between coil positive and the ignition switch and beyond to the battery.
o If Yes - crank the engine.
o Is there a spark at the spark plug.
o If Yes - then the problems are downstream at the dizzy cap, rotor arm, plug leads or plugs, so that is where to look - choose your suspects and fix.
o If No - change the king lead and - If still No - then the problems are upstream at the coil, amplifier, distributor or its innards.
o Next, with ignition on, take a jump lead and briefly touch coil negative to earth. Watch for a spark at the spark plug.
o If No - Then the coil is faulty. Change it for a known good 12 volt unit.
o If Yes - Then the problem is with the amplifier, dizzy or its innards.
o See below for coil and amplifier tests. Courtesy of TVR owners Wedg1e and others hereabouts -
o If that does not solve the problem then the Dizzy Reluctor/Pick-up Coil or its other innards are not working and they have to be changed for a known good dizzy or innards.
You can check out the coil this way:
o Disconnect the amp.
o Strike coil neg to earth with a flying lead and see how good is the king lead spark.
o If spark is bad the input voltage and coil are candidates for inspection/replacement.
o If sparks are good look for amp/pickup probs.
Here is an amp/pickup test.
o Take distributor cap off.
o Disconnect ECU trigger wire so no spurious signal go thataway.
o Disconnect coil neg wire from amp.
o Wire a 12v 21W bulb from amp to coil pos (12 volt supply).
o The 21W bulb acts as a substitute load.
o Turn ignition on.
o Rotate distributor rotor back and forward against the vac advance springs.
o As the rotor triggers the pickup, the amp should flash the light.
o If the lamp flashing is positive and consistent one can be pretty sure the amp/pickup are working correctly.
If after all the above nothing is faulty:
o Another possible component failure could be the suppressing capacitor which is breaking down under the back-EMF from the coil.
OR
o Some LT wiring is corroded or otherwise failing.
If all the above check out then the downstream components must be reviewed, again to see if they are intermittently dragging down the energy.
o Rotor arm
o Dizzy cap
o Leads,
o Plugs
Moving on
1 check ignition timing.
2 Check the engine running signal from coil negative goes to pin 1 of the ECU via the 6800 ohm resistor.
3 Check components such as coolant temp sensor, AFM, etc.
4 Check for rogue air leaks and connector corrosion prob.
Get everything you need from the archive index found here:
http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Rover_Te...
honestjohntoo said:
I think this has all been covered with you previously, but time to try again, if you are ready?
A general approach to intermittant ignition problems is to creep up on the fault before it occurs, so you can pounce immediately it appears and its a lot easier with a system that runs.
First, your circuit will be something like this.
Guaranteed Foolproof Intermittent Ignition Fault Finder. Please notify of errors/omissions.
Rig up two 4/5 watt 12 volt bulbs (or better still, 2V, 15mA LED's + 680 ohm resistors) on test leads into the cabin and connect one between coil +ve and earth and the other to coil -ve and earth. Mark the bulbs POS and NEG. Beware cables dont foul hot/moving parts.
Start the engine and observe:
POS sensing the ignition input voltage is permanantly on,
AND
NEG sensing the pulsed voltage across the Ignition Amplifier flickers in sympathy with engine rpm, or is dimly lit (LED's flicker better).
Now drive the car and have a helper note what happens when the engine misbehaves.
If POS and NEG go out together there is an open circuit interruption of the 12 v feed such as a faulty wire/ignition switch,
OR
A short on the same circuit due to burned insulation.
If NEG comes full on the Ignition Amplifier (due to excess internal heat) or its associated wiring/earth has failed in open circuit mode,
OR
The pulsed input (ie Hall Effect or Reluctor) to the amplifier from the dizzy has failed or the associated wiring is faulty/shorting to earth,
OR
The Coil has failed in a short circuit mode (unlikely cos it would surely kill the amplifier methinks?)
If NEG goes out the Ignition Amplifier has temporarily failed in short circuit mode due to excess internal heat,
OR
the local wiring is shorting to earth,
OR
The coil has failed in open circuit mode due to insulation breakdown or internal heat
If POS stays lit and NEG show signs of flickering instability not sympathetic with engine rpm, then the Ignition Amplifier or its connections are on the blink.
It may be impractical for you to deal with the above in which case, no choice:
Back to Basics
The above circuit represents BOTH the system where the amplifier is mounted behind the coil AND where it is mounted on the side of the dizzy. The effective electrics are the same, just the physical locations of components differ.
You need to be sure your car wiring from the ignition switch, through to the coil, dizzy and amplifier module is pretty much the same.
o Remove the king lead from the distributor, connect it to a spark plug and lay the plug on the engine somewhere.
o Switch on the ignition and use your multimeter to verify there are 12 volts at coil positive.
o If No - find out why by checking further back in the circuit between coil positive and the ignition switch and beyond to the battery.
o If Yes - crank the engine.
o Is there a spark at the spark plug.
o If Yes - then the problems are downstream at the dizzy cap, rotor arm, plug leads or plugs, so that is where to look - choose your suspects and fix.
o If No - change the king lead and - If still No - then the problems are upstream at the coil, amplifier, distributor or its innards.
o Next, with ignition on, take a jump lead and briefly touch coil negative to earth. Watch for a spark at the spark plug.
o If No - Then the coil is faulty. Change it for a known good 12 volt unit.
o If Yes - Then the problem is with the amplifier, dizzy or its innards.
o See below for coil and amplifier tests. Courtesy of TVR owners Wedg1e and others hereabouts -
o If that does not solve the problem then the Dizzy Reluctor/Pick-up Coil or its other innards are not working and they have to be changed for a known good dizzy or innards.
You can check out the coil this way:
o Disconnect the amp.
o Strike coil neg to earth with a flying lead and see how good is the king lead spark.
o If spark is bad the input voltage and coil are candidates for inspection/replacement.
o If sparks are good look for amp/pickup probs.
Here is an amp/pickup test.
o Take distributor cap off.
o Disconnect ECU trigger wire so no spurious signal go thataway.
o Disconnect coil neg wire from amp.
o Wire a 12v 21W bulb from amp to coil pos (12 volt supply).
o The 21W bulb acts as a substitute load.
o Turn ignition on.
o Rotate distributor rotor back and forward against the vac advance springs.
o As the rotor triggers the pickup, the amp should flash the light.
o If the lamp flashing is positive and consistent one can be pretty sure the amp/pickup are working correctly.
If after all the above nothing is faulty:
o Another possible component failure could be the suppressing capacitor which is breaking down under the back-EMF from the coil.
OR
o Some LT wiring is corroded or otherwise failing.
If all the above check out then the downstream components must be reviewed, again to see if they are intermittently dragging down the energy.
o Rotor arm
o Dizzy cap
o Leads,
o Plugs
Moving on
1 check ignition timing.
2 Check the engine running signal from coil negative goes to pin 1 of the ECU via the 6800 ohm resistor.
3 Check components such as coolant temp sensor, AFM, etc.
4 Check for rogue air leaks and connector corrosion prob.
Get everything you need from the archive index found here:
http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Rover_Te...
WOW - Thats an amazing reply - thanks for that matey, certainly going to give me stuff to be getting on with!!matt-man said:
I have fixed the problem .....Problem is still there though so i am totally lost...
And the original problem wasmatt-man said:
i spent some more time on the wedge trying to diagnose my random ignition fault...
Since changing all sensors, swapping ECU and flapper,
Observation: If you had/have a random ignition problem, concentrate all efforts thereabouts, not on the Efi system.Since changing all sensors, swapping ECU and flapper,
A general approach to intermittant ignition problems is to creep up on the fault before it occurs, so you can pounce immediately it appears and its a lot easier with a system that runs.
First, your circuit will be something like this.
Guaranteed Foolproof Intermittent Ignition Fault Finder. Please notify of errors/omissions.
Rig up two 4/5 watt 12 volt bulbs (or better still, 2V, 15mA LED's + 680 ohm resistors) on test leads into the cabin and connect one between coil +ve and earth and the other to coil -ve and earth. Mark the bulbs POS and NEG. Beware cables dont foul hot/moving parts.
Start the engine and observe:
POS sensing the ignition input voltage is permanantly on,
AND
NEG sensing the pulsed voltage across the Ignition Amplifier flickers in sympathy with engine rpm, or is dimly lit (LED's flicker better).
Now drive the car and have a helper note what happens when the engine misbehaves.
If POS and NEG go out together there is an open circuit interruption of the 12 v feed such as a faulty wire/ignition switch,
OR
A short on the same circuit due to burned insulation.
If NEG comes full on the Ignition Amplifier (due to excess internal heat) or its associated wiring/earth has failed in open circuit mode,
OR
The pulsed input (ie Hall Effect or Reluctor) to the amplifier from the dizzy has failed or the associated wiring is faulty/shorting to earth,
OR
The Coil has failed in a short circuit mode (unlikely cos it would surely kill the amplifier methinks?)
If NEG goes out the Ignition Amplifier has temporarily failed in short circuit mode due to excess internal heat,
OR
the local wiring is shorting to earth,
OR
The coil has failed in open circuit mode due to insulation breakdown or internal heat
If POS stays lit and NEG show signs of flickering instability not sympathetic with engine rpm, then the Ignition Amplifier or its connections are on the blink.
It may be impractical for you to deal with the above in which case, no choice:
Back to Basics
The above circuit represents BOTH the system where the amplifier is mounted behind the coil AND where it is mounted on the side of the dizzy. The effective electrics are the same, just the physical locations of components differ.
You need to be sure your car wiring from the ignition switch, through to the coil, dizzy and amplifier module is pretty much the same.
o Remove the king lead from the distributor, connect it to a spark plug and lay the plug on the engine somewhere.
o Switch on the ignition and use your multimeter to verify there are 12 volts at coil positive.
o If No - find out why by checking further back in the circuit between coil positive and the ignition switch and beyond to the battery.
o If Yes - crank the engine.
o Is there a spark at the spark plug.
o If Yes - then the problems are downstream at the dizzy cap, rotor arm, plug leads or plugs, so that is where to look - choose your suspects and fix.
o If No - change the king lead and - If still No - then the problems are upstream at the coil, amplifier, distributor or its innards.
o Next, with ignition on, take a jump lead and briefly touch coil negative to earth. Watch for a spark at the spark plug.
o If No - Then the coil is faulty. Change it for a known good 12 volt unit.
o If Yes - Then the problem is with the amplifier, dizzy or its innards.
o See below for coil and amplifier tests. Courtesy of TVR owners Wedg1e and others hereabouts -
o If that does not solve the problem then the Dizzy Reluctor/Pick-up Coil or its other innards are not working and they have to be changed for a known good dizzy or innards.
You can check out the coil this way:
o Disconnect the amp.
o Strike coil neg to earth with a flying lead and see how good is the king lead spark.
o If spark is bad the input voltage and coil are candidates for inspection/replacement.
o If sparks are good look for amp/pickup probs.
Here is an amp/pickup test.
o Take distributor cap off.
o Disconnect ECU trigger wire so no spurious signal go thataway.
o Disconnect coil neg wire from amp.
o Wire a 12v 21W bulb from amp to coil pos (12 volt supply).
o The 21W bulb acts as a substitute load.
o Turn ignition on.
o Rotate distributor rotor back and forward against the vac advance springs.
o As the rotor triggers the pickup, the amp should flash the light.
o If the lamp flashing is positive and consistent one can be pretty sure the amp/pickup are working correctly.
If after all the above nothing is faulty:
o Another possible component failure could be the suppressing capacitor which is breaking down under the back-EMF from the coil.
OR
o Some LT wiring is corroded or otherwise failing.
If all the above check out then the downstream components must be reviewed, again to see if they are intermittently dragging down the energy.
o Rotor arm
o Dizzy cap
o Leads,
o Plugs
Moving on
1 check ignition timing.
2 Check the engine running signal from coil negative goes to pin 1 of the ECU via the 6800 ohm resistor.
3 Check components such as coolant temp sensor, AFM, etc.
4 Check for rogue air leaks and connector corrosion prob.
Get everything you need from the archive index found here:
http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Rover_Te...
Just to confirm - the leads are all now back in the right place and the car starts and runs perfectly. The issue i am getting is only usually on 'kickdown' or low down torque driving where by the car suddenly starts running 'rough'. Its almost as if it misfires.
The weired thing is that after changing the ECU and flapper the other week, the problem 100% cleared for about 6-7 runs and then happened again. I think i am getting out of my depth now but just getting worried about the bill for ongoing diagnostic tests...
Think i might be getting to the stage of a professional.
Anyone know anyone in the south who is reasonable and patient?! I havent really 'used' the car now, soley by losing confidence in her. After respraying the front she looks fantastic but just sits in the garage.
Trying VERY hard not to go car shopping for a swap!!!!!!!!1
I've usually found that with 'intermittent' probs like this, it's often cheaper to get a professional with all the diagnostic equipment available to sort it for you, rather than haphazardly trying new bits...unless you've got plenty of time on your hands.
I had some similar running issues on my 400SE shortly after buying (timing, misfiring,etc) and took it to really excellent tuning specialist, who look after race/rally cars, etc.
My bill was 70 odd quid total, and the car ran perfectly ever after.
They also pointed out the parts that really could do with re-newing in the future...before they broke.
I had some similar running issues on my 400SE shortly after buying (timing, misfiring,etc) and took it to really excellent tuning specialist, who look after race/rally cars, etc.
My bill was 70 odd quid total, and the car ran perfectly ever after.
They also pointed out the parts that really could do with re-newing in the future...before they broke.
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