clutch problems now !
Discussion
I've just tried the clutch pedal on my 400se only to find it's very light, with next to no force required to push it to the floor (the car's been stood for 3 months). I checked the master cylinder resovoir which was empty, so i filled it up and set about bleeding via the slave cylinder. To start with the fluid did come through with someone pushing the pedal, however sometimes no fluid was being pushed through, needless to say the pedal is still as bad. How do i know if it's the master or slave cylinder? There isn't any fluid in the footwell (the carpets have been out for a couple of months)or under the car?
rev-erend said:
Really it can be either .. best way to tell is to remove the rubber seal and have a look to see if there is fluid seaping by .. it's possible the clutch is stuck to the flywheel .. this can happen over 1 winter never mind 3 years.
Probably seals and I suggest the Master Cylinder if you are getting nothing from the bleed screw, start at that end, remove the pipe from the outlet of the Master Clyinder and pump, left my wedge sitting for a few weeks and similar happened with the brakes, fine one day a few weeks nothing.hi John
Never had any clutch fluid leaking when i had the car.
I had to replaced the fluid in the first month of ownership, typical problem off very dirty fluid that froze so couldn't engage the clutch which was about a year ago.
Just had to take apart the master and slave on the 350i and was supprised how little there is in side, if it is a rubber should be easy to repair.
p.s. please be carefully when taking out the slave (just about to patch up the hole i had to cut in the bellhousing so i could re-fit the arm i dislodged)
Stephen
Never had any clutch fluid leaking when i had the car.
I had to replaced the fluid in the first month of ownership, typical problem off very dirty fluid that froze so couldn't engage the clutch which was about a year ago.
Just had to take apart the master and slave on the 350i and was supprised how little there is in side, if it is a rubber should be easy to repair.
p.s. please be carefully when taking out the slave (just about to patch up the hole i had to cut in the bellhousing so i could re-fit the arm i dislodged)
Stephen
Put car in gear, engine off, clutch to floor, get big mate to shove car HARD. Orrrr, it is a bit ugly, but put car in 5th, clutch down, ecu out to stop it trying to start, and flick the key and release immediately. Like I say, ugly, but the clutch plate will just want a jolt to free it off.
Hi
i have tried bleeding the system again today, but there seems very little force behind the fluid when it comes out of the bleed pipe?
I decided to remove the slave cylinder and wondered about the rod that the slave moves - is it normal to have about 1cm visable when it's pushed in and around 6cm when pulled out and if the clutch was stuck would the rod still be movable by hand?
i have tried bleeding the system again today, but there seems very little force behind the fluid when it comes out of the bleed pipe?
I decided to remove the slave cylinder and wondered about the rod that the slave moves - is it normal to have about 1cm visable when it's pushed in and around 6cm when pulled out and if the clutch was stuck would the rod still be movable by hand?
Be very careful - if you pull that rod out it may pull the release leaver off the spigot and then you'll be cutting a hole in the bellhousing to put it back!
It's quite normal for it to be poking out of the bellhousing between 1/2" and 1" when you remove the slave. It should resist being pushed in by hand very strongly.
When bleeding the slave it's fairly normal to have "not much force" behind the bled-out fluid. As you tighten up the bleed nipple the pedal should get progressively harder.
Make sure you don't let air get in to the bleed nipple until it's fully tightened, or else it'll be sucked back in and you'll be back to square one.
I had all my fluid disappear a few weeks back but after topping up and bleeding it's been OK.
It's quite normal for it to be poking out of the bellhousing between 1/2" and 1" when you remove the slave. It should resist being pushed in by hand very strongly.
When bleeding the slave it's fairly normal to have "not much force" behind the bled-out fluid. As you tighten up the bleed nipple the pedal should get progressively harder.
Make sure you don't let air get in to the bleed nipple until it's fully tightened, or else it'll be sucked back in and you'll be back to square one.
I had all my fluid disappear a few weeks back but after topping up and bleeding it's been OK.
Hi John
Well you have tried to blead the system, was that done by pumping the brake pedal, if so did you have any on e helping you, you have to tighten the blead nip on a press to stop air getting back in.
You could try gravity blead, just open the nip and let it drip out with the top cap off, slow but works.
Have you taken off the rubber cover from the slave, is there a lot of rod out of the slave, if so the clutch could be in, if not and there is not weight on the clutch pedal then i think it would be the master, the seals could be shot and folded over if it was out of fluid and you tried pumping it throug this can kill the seals.
Last check to see if you have a stuck clutch, jack one wheel up, put car into N and turn the wheel, if it truns free clutch not stuck, if tries to turn engine stuck... bugger.
My thought is the master cylinder, im sure a seal kit isnt a lot of cash.
Let us know how you get on.
Well you have tried to blead the system, was that done by pumping the brake pedal, if so did you have any on e helping you, you have to tighten the blead nip on a press to stop air getting back in.
You could try gravity blead, just open the nip and let it drip out with the top cap off, slow but works.
Have you taken off the rubber cover from the slave, is there a lot of rod out of the slave, if so the clutch could be in, if not and there is not weight on the clutch pedal then i think it would be the master, the seals could be shot and folded over if it was out of fluid and you tried pumping it throug this can kill the seals.
Last check to see if you have a stuck clutch, jack one wheel up, put car into N and turn the wheel, if it truns free clutch not stuck, if tries to turn engine stuck... bugger.
My thought is the master cylinder, im sure a seal kit isnt a lot of cash.
Let us know how you get on.
Campbell said:
Hi John
Well you have tried to blead the system, was that done by pumping the brake pedal, if so did you have any on e helping you, you have to tighten the blead nip on a press to stop air getting back in.
You could try gravity blead, just open the nip and let it drip out with the top cap off, slow but works.
Have you taken off the rubber cover from the slave, is there a lot of rod out of the slave, if so the clutch could be in, if not and there is not weight on the clutch pedal then i think it would be the master, the seals could be shot and folded over if it was out of fluid and you tried pumping it throug this can kill the seals.
Last check to see if you have a stuck clutch, jack one wheel up, put car into N and turn the wheel, if it truns free clutch not stuck, if tries to turn engine stuck... bugger.
My thought is the master cylinder, im sure a seal kit isnt a lot of cash.
Let us know how you get on.
Campbell - have you been on the super unleaded again .. Well you have tried to blead the system, was that done by pumping the brake pedal, if so did you have any on e helping you, you have to tighten the blead nip on a press to stop air getting back in.
You could try gravity blead, just open the nip and let it drip out with the top cap off, slow but works.
Have you taken off the rubber cover from the slave, is there a lot of rod out of the slave, if so the clutch could be in, if not and there is not weight on the clutch pedal then i think it would be the master, the seals could be shot and folded over if it was out of fluid and you tried pumping it throug this can kill the seals.
Last check to see if you have a stuck clutch, jack one wheel up, put car into N and turn the wheel, if it truns free clutch not stuck, if tries to turn engine stuck... bugger.
My thought is the master cylinder, im sure a seal kit isnt a lot of cash.
Let us know how you get on.
johntom said:
Hi thanks for the replies
I have ordered a master seal kit along with a new slave cylinder (might as well do the lot).
Are the seal kits easy to fit? Do you need compressed air to remove the piston etc?
I am sure the car will freewheel, but I will check.
Master cylinder is easy to overhaul, nothing special and is done manually without any problems. Removing it from the wedge could be another thing, it took me more time to do this then completely overhaul, reinstall and bleed the full hydraulic clutch system!I have ordered a master seal kit along with a new slave cylinder (might as well do the lot).
Are the seal kits easy to fit? Do you need compressed air to remove the piston etc?
I am sure the car will freewheel, but I will check.
Be carefull to reinstall as the operating rod needs to be aligned to the center of the master cylinder, if not it will cause the bore to wear out quickly and you will have the same problem in the end and have to replace the master...
Rob
Hi
i fitted the new master seal kit and a new slave cylinder earlier in the week. Today i bled the system and got a working clutch, however the resistance in the pedal stroke just seems to be at the bottom, not sure if it's me or if there's still something not quite right (haven't driven it for 3 months). You have to get the pedal right to the bottom to change gear, is this normal?
i fitted the new master seal kit and a new slave cylinder earlier in the week. Today i bled the system and got a working clutch, however the resistance in the pedal stroke just seems to be at the bottom, not sure if it's me or if there's still something not quite right (haven't driven it for 3 months). You have to get the pedal right to the bottom to change gear, is this normal?
Hi
the biting point is at the bottom, there doesn't seem to be much resistance until the pedal is 3/4 way down?. I
did take it for a quick run (see post inlet manifold differences) it doesn't seem to have much grunt somehow, as though it's not revving freely? Committed the Cardinal sin of changing too many things at once! When I got back the new distributor cap wasn't fully secure, one of the clips was loose, maybe that was to blame but I haven't tried it again yet.
the biting point is at the bottom, there doesn't seem to be much resistance until the pedal is 3/4 way down?. I
did take it for a quick run (see post inlet manifold differences) it doesn't seem to have much grunt somehow, as though it's not revving freely? Committed the Cardinal sin of changing too many things at once! When I got back the new distributor cap wasn't fully secure, one of the clips was loose, maybe that was to blame but I haven't tried it again yet.
Maybe give it another bleed - the master cylinder walls can get worn oddly and a seal kit might not be enough to fix it. If you notice air in there again then it's time for a new master. I like to finish the bleeding by nipping up the bleed nipple while the pedal is pressed down, easiest done with the help of an assistant.
How to bleed your clutch.....
Get a length of rubber hose that fits over the end of the bleed nipple snugly then get a clean clear jar and put a little brake fluid in the bottom of the jar. Now put one end on the hose on the bleed nipple and the other end in the jar making sure the end of the hose is below the level of the brake fluid then open nipple and pump clutch peddle making sure the reservoir stays full. You can start pressing the peddle up and down and continue until the fluid flows into the jar without any bubbles. Once you have done this tighten the bleed nipple and that's the system bled. If you use this method, no air can be drawn back into the system. I have used this method lots of times and always get good results even when bleeding brakes and clutches myself without having to find a helper to press the peddle.
Get a length of rubber hose that fits over the end of the bleed nipple snugly then get a clean clear jar and put a little brake fluid in the bottom of the jar. Now put one end on the hose on the bleed nipple and the other end in the jar making sure the end of the hose is below the level of the brake fluid then open nipple and pump clutch peddle making sure the reservoir stays full. You can start pressing the peddle up and down and continue until the fluid flows into the jar without any bubbles. Once you have done this tighten the bleed nipple and that's the system bled. If you use this method, no air can be drawn back into the system. I have used this method lots of times and always get good results even when bleeding brakes and clutches myself without having to find a helper to press the peddle.
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