Changing to a tuneable ECU - difference ?
Discussion
As per the "anyone megasquirted a flapper wedge" thread I have no choice but to change mine and I thought it may be interesting to start and update this thread with a before and after.
Bit of background.
After the engine died in Jan 08 the car sat forlornly in the garage, personal circumstances not allowing funding for what I thought might be a relatively cheap repair. The symptoms were a loud rattling sound and engine stalling just as I straigtened up in the garage after a short run. Didn't try and start it again as didn't want to do any further damage. In Aug 08 stripped the engine to the limit of my technical ability, could find nothing wrong with valves but in turning over manually there was a hard point.
In Feb 09 trailered the car to a race prep workshop who look after my Evo and asked them to delve further than I had. Apparently a valve seat seal (locking key) had fallen out and damaged a piston but their opinion of the rest of the internals was that it was in poor nick, even though it produced good power previously. Unwilling to go the cheap route but unable to fund the expensive route a tarp was placed over the car and it was rolled to the back of the workshops with the other flotsam that collects in those kind of places.
Peter Wheeler's death was probably the deciding factor. Life was too short and this wedge was more than just a car, it was a part of my life and family in the same way that my pets were and I had inherited it's legacy, it being the only 450 in Australia. It deserved better so I set about arranging for a heart transplant.
A brand new 4.6 short engine was sourced (thanks RPI), the original heads reworked, most ancilliaries refurbished or replaced, new clutch, re-wired engine bay and etc etc. On the dyno it produced 233bhp at the wheels, I don't have the torque figure but will ask - this was running in and they didn't bother with print out's. However this was with fuelling set correctly for high engine loads, on cruise it misfired badly as it was so rich and it wouldn't hold any kind of idle, foulling the plugs within seconds. With only the AFM spring tension to play with fuelling set for cruise left it way too weak for any loading.
I picked it up this morning after they had set fuelling at a "driveable" level, first time I had even heard it since the transplant. It was awesome before, now it sounded like nothing else I have ever heard that was road legal. At rest it growls, pulling away even at 2000 rpm it barks and whilst I had to take it easy anything above it really started to howl. Unable to resist the temptation I gave it full throttle in 2nd for maybe a second and lifted off at which point a small war erupted with several grenades going off behind the car and what sounded like return machine gun fire from someone sitting in the boot. The astonished look from my son in the passenger seat made the previously inevitable finger pointing and tongue wagging about costs from the better half worth putting up with.
So tonight there she sits, a bit dusty and with the battery charger connected looking like a recovering patient on a drip, waiting for the pacemaker to really allow the new heart to flow. I am hoping that ExtraEFI will be able to provide the pacemaker as a straight install i.e. plug and play, as an MS2 in a Lucas 4CU box. A PnP is already available for the hotwire injection systems but not for the flappers, however it could be available off the shelf if enough interest. If all goes to plan I'll be able to provide some before and after figures so a GBP per BHP ratio can be given. The workshop reckon they could get 267 ATW with a $4k Motec or Autronic set up, interesting to see how the ratio will compare but I reckon favourably.
Even if you haven't got a fault that dictates a change it has to be a relatively cheap tuning option, opening up fuelling adjustability to any dyno operator, providing upgradeability to distributorless spark and timing and even self tune on the go if used with a decent wide band lambda sensor.
I'll let you know how I go, anyone else interested then the contact is easy to find and in the meantime anyone got a spare Lucas 4CU surplus to requirements they would be willing to sell ?
Bit of background.
After the engine died in Jan 08 the car sat forlornly in the garage, personal circumstances not allowing funding for what I thought might be a relatively cheap repair. The symptoms were a loud rattling sound and engine stalling just as I straigtened up in the garage after a short run. Didn't try and start it again as didn't want to do any further damage. In Aug 08 stripped the engine to the limit of my technical ability, could find nothing wrong with valves but in turning over manually there was a hard point.
In Feb 09 trailered the car to a race prep workshop who look after my Evo and asked them to delve further than I had. Apparently a valve seat seal (locking key) had fallen out and damaged a piston but their opinion of the rest of the internals was that it was in poor nick, even though it produced good power previously. Unwilling to go the cheap route but unable to fund the expensive route a tarp was placed over the car and it was rolled to the back of the workshops with the other flotsam that collects in those kind of places.
Peter Wheeler's death was probably the deciding factor. Life was too short and this wedge was more than just a car, it was a part of my life and family in the same way that my pets were and I had inherited it's legacy, it being the only 450 in Australia. It deserved better so I set about arranging for a heart transplant.
A brand new 4.6 short engine was sourced (thanks RPI), the original heads reworked, most ancilliaries refurbished or replaced, new clutch, re-wired engine bay and etc etc. On the dyno it produced 233bhp at the wheels, I don't have the torque figure but will ask - this was running in and they didn't bother with print out's. However this was with fuelling set correctly for high engine loads, on cruise it misfired badly as it was so rich and it wouldn't hold any kind of idle, foulling the plugs within seconds. With only the AFM spring tension to play with fuelling set for cruise left it way too weak for any loading.
I picked it up this morning after they had set fuelling at a "driveable" level, first time I had even heard it since the transplant. It was awesome before, now it sounded like nothing else I have ever heard that was road legal. At rest it growls, pulling away even at 2000 rpm it barks and whilst I had to take it easy anything above it really started to howl. Unable to resist the temptation I gave it full throttle in 2nd for maybe a second and lifted off at which point a small war erupted with several grenades going off behind the car and what sounded like return machine gun fire from someone sitting in the boot. The astonished look from my son in the passenger seat made the previously inevitable finger pointing and tongue wagging about costs from the better half worth putting up with.
So tonight there she sits, a bit dusty and with the battery charger connected looking like a recovering patient on a drip, waiting for the pacemaker to really allow the new heart to flow. I am hoping that ExtraEFI will be able to provide the pacemaker as a straight install i.e. plug and play, as an MS2 in a Lucas 4CU box. A PnP is already available for the hotwire injection systems but not for the flappers, however it could be available off the shelf if enough interest. If all goes to plan I'll be able to provide some before and after figures so a GBP per BHP ratio can be given. The workshop reckon they could get 267 ATW with a $4k Motec or Autronic set up, interesting to see how the ratio will compare but I reckon favourably.
Even if you haven't got a fault that dictates a change it has to be a relatively cheap tuning option, opening up fuelling adjustability to any dyno operator, providing upgradeability to distributorless spark and timing and even self tune on the go if used with a decent wide band lambda sensor.
I'll let you know how I go, anyone else interested then the contact is easy to find and in the meantime anyone got a spare Lucas 4CU surplus to requirements they would be willing to sell ?
Good luck with it all
I'm getting a little further on mine now, having soldered most of the old loom to the new MS loom
Just waiting for some more wire to re do some earths and sheilded wire for trigger wheel
On my 4.5 BV engine, I'm hoping to knock on the door of 300HP with similar torque once its all mapped correctly
I'm getting a little further on mine now, having soldered most of the old loom to the new MS loom
Just waiting for some more wire to re do some earths and sheilded wire for trigger wheel
On my 4.5 BV engine, I'm hoping to knock on the door of 300HP with similar torque once its all mapped correctly
Sounds good; with the number of RV8s around the world I'm surprised someone hasn't already done a PnP closed-loop mappable system in the 4CU's box.
You can find 4CUs on Ebay cheaply enough, think the most I've ever paid for an ECU by itself is £17 - and that was the Sprintex modified one
You can find 4CUs on Ebay cheaply enough, think the most I've ever paid for an ECU by itself is £17 - and that was the Sprintex modified one
gsx600 said:
They seem to be going for a lot more han that on ebay now Ian 
Saw a new (apparantly) one on there last week for £400 I think
Well yes, you do get the odd joker Saw a new (apparantly) one on there last week for £400 I think
Picked one up in Sleaford last week for a tenner
The seller runs an old Dodge pickup with Jag running gear, gas conversion... and a 4.6 RV8!I was doing a service tour of RAF bases lat week; on the way back from Marham I dropped into Nottingham to pick up a 3-phase chain hoist to dangle from me RSJ; I commented to the seller that despite its age it's in good clean condition compared to some of the stuff in factories I get to.
"Oh, it wasn't in a factory son", came the reply, "We used it for hoisting cows in our slaughterhouse!"
Still, can't complain, half-tonne hoist for £11.50
Wedg1e said:
gsx600 said:
They seem to be going for a lot more han that on ebay now Ian
Saw a new (apparantly) one on there last week for £400 I think
Well yes, you do get the odd joker Saw a new (apparantly) one on there last week for £400 I think
Picked one up in Sleaford last week for a tenner
The seller runs an old Dodge pickup with Jag running gear, gas conversion... and a 4.6 RV8!I was doing a service tour of RAF bases lat week; on the way back from Marham I dropped into Nottingham to pick up a 3-phase chain hoist to dangle from me RSJ; I commented to the seller that despite its age it's in good clean condition compared to some of the stuff in factories I get to.
"Oh, it wasn't in a factory son", came the reply, "We used it for hoisting cows in our slaughterhouse!"
Still, can't complain, half-tonne hoist for £11.50
Ill get
grahamw48 said:
£11.50 for that piece of stunning equipment ?
Pull the udder one mate...unless you're bulls
tting of course.
I sh!t you not... Pull the udder one mate...unless you're bulls
tting of course. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
ETA: and here's the ECU...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Edited by Wedg1e on Thursday 8th April 00:27
Wedg1e said:
Sounds good; with the number of RV8s around the world I'm surprised someone hasn't already done a PnP closed-loop mappable system in the 4CU's box.
You can find 4CUs on Ebay cheaply enough, think the most I've ever paid for an ECU by itself is £17 - and that was the Sprintex modified one
Ive done a PnP for the flapper before, but no one wanted to buy it, as apparently most people go over to hotwire or they rip the whole lot out and fit one of my ECUs with the loom I supply. I can still do them, but there is a lot of labour involved with getting it all in the same box. So probably the best method is have the ECU become an adaptor between the MS ECU and the Lucas Loom. This means you have 2 boxes, (the Lucas and the MS) but it does allow for future upgrades a lot easier, if you ever choose to rip the old wiring out, You can find 4CUs on Ebay cheaply enough, think the most I've ever paid for an ECU by itself is £17 - and that was the Sprintex modified one
Phil
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