Disaster - Engine Seized??
Discussion
I'd really appreciate some input here.
Basically, this morning at low speed, low revs and part throttle, there was an incredibly loud metallic rattle from the engine very similar to an object passing through a fan. This noise lasted for no more than a second. The engine died immediately and when we towed it home I dropped the clutch and the rear wheels were stuck solid.
It just seemed odd that the oil on the dipstick is clear, there was no warning, the oil pressure has been consistent, there was no smoke, no misfire, nothing.
Anyone any thoughts?
BTW I've owned the car for a month and driven it five times - not a great start to TVR ownership!!
Basically, this morning at low speed, low revs and part throttle, there was an incredibly loud metallic rattle from the engine very similar to an object passing through a fan. This noise lasted for no more than a second. The engine died immediately and when we towed it home I dropped the clutch and the rear wheels were stuck solid.
It just seemed odd that the oil on the dipstick is clear, there was no warning, the oil pressure has been consistent, there was no smoke, no misfire, nothing.
Anyone any thoughts?
BTW I've owned the car for a month and driven it five times - not a great start to TVR ownership!!
from my very limited knowledge --> if the wheels are stuck solid when the clutch is down, does that not point more towards a gearbox issue or something? could it not be something catastrophic drivetrain-ish that simply caused the engine to stall? seems strange that rear wheels are unmovable...
pistolar said:
Can you turn the engine over by hand?
it would help if we new what engine you had but...before you do anything expensive. Take the starter motor off the car!! it is not unknown for the starter circuit to energise when the car is running ang give symptoms like you have stated.
after that
Take the plugs out and see if the car can be tuned over by hand.
N
I reckon the front end of your gearbox might have siezed up... If you can turn the engine over by hand with the clutch down (OK you'll need a friend!!), but it wont turn with the clutch up even in neutral, I'd think something has blown up in the front end of the cogbox.
As people abive have said, all you know is that something is stopping the transmission system running. It could be engine, could be gearbox.
Get the clutch down to isolate the two then get a mate to push car or jack rear up and turn wheels by hand with car in gear, clutch down. If they turn fine, its engine. If engine turns over (and even runs? Yikes...) with clutch down, but lifting the clutch kills it, then you have a rodgered gearbox.
The lack of foreboding symptoms from the mill suggests it might be gearbox. Exchange recon LT77 is normally about 500 notes plus fitting.
Good luck, and sorry to hear its gone pop. Chin up, everything is fixable!
As people abive have said, all you know is that something is stopping the transmission system running. It could be engine, could be gearbox.
Get the clutch down to isolate the two then get a mate to push car or jack rear up and turn wheels by hand with car in gear, clutch down. If they turn fine, its engine. If engine turns over (and even runs? Yikes...) with clutch down, but lifting the clutch kills it, then you have a rodgered gearbox.
The lack of foreboding symptoms from the mill suggests it might be gearbox. Exchange recon LT77 is normally about 500 notes plus fitting.
Good luck, and sorry to hear its gone pop. Chin up, everything is fixable!
I would have expected overheating before an engine seize.
I can tell you that a vehicle can be driven quite a way even with a snapped crankshaft, but lots of horrible noises.
(Transit van)
I can also tell you that a broken gearbox will mean an immobile vehicle.
(Bedford CF van)
Oh, and a seized diff sounds like a canon bouncing shells off the underside of your car. (Cortina MK3 Estate)
Best of luck with it.
I can tell you that a vehicle can be driven quite a way even with a snapped crankshaft, but lots of horrible noises.
(Transit van)I can also tell you that a broken gearbox will mean an immobile vehicle.
(Bedford CF van)
Oh, and a seized diff sounds like a canon bouncing shells off the underside of your car.
(Cortina MK3 Estate)Best of luck with it.
Edited by grahamw48 on Saturday 10th April 20:50
Thanks for the pointers gents, my chin is now raised slightly and I've wiped away enough tears to see to take the plugs out and starter motor off to have a poke around.
BTW I should have elaborated more - it's a 350i series 1, 84 on a B, 51,000 on the clock (obviously could be 151) and has had a lot of top end work done, new fast road cams etc, and a close ratio gearbox fitted. Up until now it's been fine, pops and bangs like a beauty, used very little oil, very stable oil pressure and engine temp. Hopefully it's something straight forward and I can be back on the road (and at the BBWF)!
I'll keep you posted,
John.
BTW I should have elaborated more - it's a 350i series 1, 84 on a B, 51,000 on the clock (obviously could be 151) and has had a lot of top end work done, new fast road cams etc, and a close ratio gearbox fitted. Up until now it's been fine, pops and bangs like a beauty, used very little oil, very stable oil pressure and engine temp. Hopefully it's something straight forward and I can be back on the road (and at the BBWF)!
I'll keep you posted,
John.
Hmm CR box would be more than 500 quid to replace, but the trick will be to isolate different bits of the driveline (engine, box, diff) and spin them idividually until you get to the bit that wont play.
It just doesnt sound like an engine sezie. They seize (normally...) either because a rod breaks and DESTROYS then engine, or because of lubrication failure which as said will cause a bad overheat ond swift but progressive loss of power. Sudden failure would be caused by rod breakage, but if it had stuck a leg out of bed you'd have a bloody great hole in the block.
It just doesnt sound like an engine sezie. They seize (normally...) either because a rod breaks and DESTROYS then engine, or because of lubrication failure which as said will cause a bad overheat ond swift but progressive loss of power. Sudden failure would be caused by rod breakage, but if it had stuck a leg out of bed you'd have a bloody great hole in the block.
Exactly Ed, everything appears normal with no loss of oil etc. Just to confuse me further, gear selection seems fine with the engine off, the gears feel exactly as they should. I have fingers crossed for the starter motor, because thinking about it, when it went, I got that horrible grating noise you get when a starter motor doesn't engage on the flywheel properly. Anyway my local TVR worshipping mechanic is on the case and hopefully I'll escape with a new starter motor.
Thanks to all of you for your advice
Thanks to all of you for your advice
That would be a good result!
However, you might have to have a new ring gear if the starter pinion has lunched it... Not an expensive part per se, but it does involve.............
removal of the engine and work on the flywheel..........
Still, it sounds as if the really big money has been averted. Good luck.
However, you might have to have a new ring gear if the starter pinion has lunched it... Not an expensive part per se, but it does involve.............
removal of the engine and work on the flywheel..........
Still, it sounds as if the really big money has been averted. Good luck.
Hopefully it's not the same but the noise and symptoms you describe are - http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f...
However, you would still be able to move the car back and forth a bit though to the point it's seized, wouldn't be seized solid unless something big like a valve dropped.
Hopefully it's something else.
However, you would still be able to move the car back and forth a bit though to the point it's seized, wouldn't be seized solid unless something big like a valve dropped.
Hopefully it's something else.
An update for you all -
My trusty mechanic and I freed the engine by rocking it backwards and forwards whilst in 5th. We both thought that the rattling crunching noise must be the starter motor pinion winding back in as the engine now turns on the key. However there is clearly very little (or no) compression and we have come to the sad conclusion that one of the camshafts must have snapped / disintegrated as we don't think there is any compression at all on one bank. We also tried to jump it by towing it but it just sounds like a bag of nails when the engine is forced to turn over.
The real choker is the car is otherwise absolutely mint (84 series 1 350i in arctic white) and has been cherished for years. I guess I must be really unlucky as I've always thought the 350 to be the least likely to let go because they are under the least stress.
I'm going to contact SSCTVR tomorrow and see how the land lies - wish me luck!!
John.
My trusty mechanic and I freed the engine by rocking it backwards and forwards whilst in 5th. We both thought that the rattling crunching noise must be the starter motor pinion winding back in as the engine now turns on the key. However there is clearly very little (or no) compression and we have come to the sad conclusion that one of the camshafts must have snapped / disintegrated as we don't think there is any compression at all on one bank. We also tried to jump it by towing it but it just sounds like a bag of nails when the engine is forced to turn over.
The real choker is the car is otherwise absolutely mint (84 series 1 350i in arctic white) and has been cherished for years. I guess I must be really unlucky as I've always thought the 350 to be the least likely to let go because they are under the least stress.
I'm going to contact SSCTVR tomorrow and see how the land lies - wish me luck!!
John.
So it sounds like rocker gear broken, or possibly the cam chain snapped. On pushrod engines, unless the rocker gear has been seriously beefed up, a snapped chain usually results in some bent valves, some very bent and dislocated pushrods and some broken rocker arms.
Unlikely to do a chain at 50k though........
Edit - possibly snapped the camshaft too, but less likely - thats more of a DOHC bucket tappet occurence where there isnt a frangible rocker and a wibbly pushrod to absorb the shock of the piston thumping the valve...
Unlikely to do a chain at 50k though........
Edit - possibly snapped the camshaft too, but less likely - thats more of a DOHC bucket tappet occurence where there isnt a frangible rocker and a wibbly pushrod to absorb the shock of the piston thumping the valve...
Edited by ed_crouch on Thursday 15th April 19:54
Yeah I would agree - the cam chain. It's probably rattling around in there somewhere making the noise.
Get the driver's side rocker cover off and see if the valves move at all (this will take 5 minutes).
You will probably have only bent a few valves/pushrods etc so hopefully it won't be too expensive. Oh, and a new chain and sprocket set.
Get the driver's side rocker cover off and see if the valves move at all (this will take 5 minutes).
You will probably have only bent a few valves/pushrods etc so hopefully it won't be too expensive. Oh, and a new chain and sprocket set.
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