Discussion
and can confirm that it is definately full kevlar
with perhaps the exception of the picnic table,wing mirrors and headlamp pods. Well Steve - someone will have to tell me when they see it in the right sunlight. Resembled carbon fibre to me but do not know the woven strand glassfibre finish you refer to - weeeell, I might have seen it and I don't think it looked quite like that.
You will have to tell me at the BBWF or any other gathering where we may meet.
You will have to tell me at the BBWF or any other gathering where we may meet.
shpub said:
Could also be GRP weave material. It is a woven version of chopped strand mat. Can look very similar to Kevlar.
I probably didnt want to hear that
Firefox-Been doing a bit of research and Steve is correct they are similar..www.resin-supplies.co.uk/fibre_types.htm
PS kevlar and carbon fibre are totaly different materials.
Time to contact the factory methinks!
Anybody know how aproachable they are in these matters? contact names?
>> Edited by dickymint on Tuesday 13th April 11:11
As I understand it there is a definite difference in the weight and thickness of the different materials as used by TVR.
Just lifting the bonnet or pressing down on it in the middle should tell you whether it is kevlar / carbon fibre or GRP and the same with the wings.
As either kevlar or carbon fibre are lighter than GRP and are both aramid composites as referred to in SEAC surely it is academical which it is/what the mix is - it's lightweight whatever and being an early SEAC gives it a good chance of being full kevlar.
Great car - glad to see it is being enjoyed.
Just lifting the bonnet or pressing down on it in the middle should tell you whether it is kevlar / carbon fibre or GRP and the same with the wings.
As either kevlar or carbon fibre are lighter than GRP and are both aramid composites as referred to in SEAC surely it is academical which it is/what the mix is - it's lightweight whatever and being an early SEAC gives it a good chance of being full kevlar.
Great car - glad to see it is being enjoyed.
Can't go with weight and that really either. I have a Woven GRP bonnet which weighs not much more than the CF one it replaced. The weight is really caused by how much resin is used. Tower View extensively used the woven stuff for the 520's lightweight panels. They show it a tin of resin and that is enough to make it rigid enough to use! The stuff they have made for me is actually lighter than the equivalent panels on Jeff S's SEAC racer. He was quite taken back by that!
As for who would know? Mist of time thing I suspect. It is fair to say that there are very very few true Kevlar SEACs around and the chances are that the car is not. BTW I have even seen Kevlar type weave patterns on V8S bonnets! And these certainly didn't use Kevlar!
The only way is to bore a hole and take a sample and get it analysed.
As for who would know? Mist of time thing I suspect. It is fair to say that there are very very few true Kevlar SEACs around and the chances are that the car is not. BTW I have even seen Kevlar type weave patterns on V8S bonnets! And these certainly didn't use Kevlar!
The only way is to bore a hole and take a sample and get it analysed.
shpub said:
The only way is to bore a hole and take a sample and get it analysed.
I used to use Kevlar in my model gliders and if your drill/knife/saw if a little blunt then it can be quite hard to tell whether it is Kevlar or Glass as Kevlar can be worked with.
However, in my experience, go near Kevlar with sandpaper and all you end up with is something with more screwed up little bobbles of fluff on it than my old wool jumper
If this happened, only thing that worked for me was to use a scalpel to remove the worst of the fluffy bobbles and then skin it with a thin layer of glass - then sand, prime and paint!
When JB from EVO was asking me this question - my thoughts were - who really cares.
What TVR (or others) quote for kerb weight and BHP
are all fiction. What I care about is : looks and performance in relation to others.
I'm 99.99999 % sure mine is GRP and I would not loose any sleep if someone told me it's GRP.
As Peter Wheeler said - it was an experiment that did not really work. Hence why many were rebodied in GRP.
Don't loose any sleep guys - it's still one of the finest looking cars around and the performance is still pretty good compared to newer models.
What TVR (or others) quote for kerb weight and BHP
are all fiction. What I care about is : looks and performance in relation to others.
I'm 99.99999 % sure mine is GRP and I would not loose any sleep if someone told me it's GRP.
As Peter Wheeler said - it was an experiment that did not really work. Hence why many were rebodied in GRP.
Don't loose any sleep guys - it's still one of the finest looking cars around and the performance is still pretty good compared to newer models.
I agree that the "experiment" did not work for financial/aesthetic reasons but I wonder if the SEAC would have been so competitive without the alleged 200lb weight difference and if not maybe it would not have been banned. At the end of the day we all love the Wedge and the fact that it was banned adds to its kudos.
Most of you know far more about the model than I do.
Cant help thinking that part of the reason for producing the 450 SEAC was to make up for the added weight after the death of kevlar.
Off out now to compare 350 and SEAC bonnet weight with me spring balance (anorak at the ready
Most of you know far more about the model than I do.
Cant help thinking that part of the reason for producing the 450 SEAC was to make up for the added weight after the death of kevlar.
Off out now to compare 350 and SEAC bonnet weight with me spring balance (anorak at the ready
Quick lesson on composite materials.
Glass - White fabric - Low performance
Aramid - Orange Fabric - Medium Performance, but also very tough
Carbon - Black fabric - High performance
Examples in photo
Performance measured in terms of strength or stiffness.
All materials are bound in a resin materix which then stops any colour ID
All materials come in a variety of thicknesses and can easily be built up in layers.
Pushing the material and seeing how easily it moves is unlikely to tell you anything, unless you have a calibrated finger
You could always cut a sample out and test it! unlikely
It is very unlikely to be carbon, they may have used aramid but on the basis of cost it is more likely to be glass.
Are you bored yet? I do this for a living!!!!!
>> Edited by islander on Tuesday 13th April 18:17
Glass - White fabric - Low performance
Aramid - Orange Fabric - Medium Performance, but also very tough
Carbon - Black fabric - High performance
Examples in photo
Performance measured in terms of strength or stiffness.
All materials are bound in a resin materix which then stops any colour ID
All materials come in a variety of thicknesses and can easily be built up in layers.
Pushing the material and seeing how easily it moves is unlikely to tell you anything, unless you have a calibrated finger
You could always cut a sample out and test it! unlikely
It is very unlikely to be carbon, they may have used aramid but on the basis of cost it is more likely to be glass.
Are you bored yet? I do this for a living!!!!!
>> Edited by islander on Tuesday 13th April 18:17
First 10 SEACs were full kevlar, dickimint i'm 99% positive yours is one of these, the kevlar body will always have more ripples than grp, kevlar is very soft and flexible if you put your knee against a panel it will move.
Of course if a Kevlar SEAC has been crashed and needs bodypanel replacement, it's very unlikely that it would be in the original (kevlar) material,
If you can lift the carpet/ inner panels anywhere you should see bright yellow kevlar.
Tim
Of course if a Kevlar SEAC has been crashed and needs bodypanel replacement, it's very unlikely that it would be in the original (kevlar) material,
If you can lift the carpet/ inner panels anywhere you should see bright yellow kevlar.
Tim
2 sheds said:
First 10 SEACs were full kevlar, dickimint i'm 99% positive yours is one of these, the kevlar body will always have more ripples than grp, kevlar is very soft and flexible if you put your knee against a panel it will move.
Of course if a Kevlar SEAC has been crashed and needs bodypanel replacement, it's very unlikely that it would be in the original (kevlar) material,
If you can lift the carpet/ inner panels anywhere you should see bright yellow kevlar.
Tim
mine is bright yellow in places but i don't think mine is full KevlarHmm - curiouser and curiouser as they said in Alice in Wonderland.
It'll be good to make the comparisons at the BBWF. Interesting that some leading lights on here aren't particularly worried if their cars are not carbon. I suppose I agree - it is the car and how it performs that matters.
The new model registrar has confirmed that mine is an SEAC, (many thanks) but still has not sent me a copy of the build sheet - more news to be placed on profile later. Any further ideas from any of you chaps most welcome.
firefox
It'll be good to make the comparisons at the BBWF. Interesting that some leading lights on here aren't particularly worried if their cars are not carbon. I suppose I agree - it is the car and how it performs that matters.
The new model registrar has confirmed that mine is an SEAC, (many thanks) but still has not sent me a copy of the build sheet - more news to be placed on profile later. Any further ideas from any of you chaps most welcome.
firefox
dickymint said:
I agree that the "experiment" did not work for financial/aesthetic reasons but I wonder if the SEAC would have been so competitive without the alleged 200lb weight difference
I had a long chat with Jeff Statham re the yellow Seac. It weighs 1050 KG without the roof and many lightened parts which is slightly more than a fully prepped Tazzie Racer. This surprised me a little as I suspected it to be a lot lighter. A Tuscan racer is around 850-900 kg. The reason is was so competitive was the fact that the competitions were no where near its power or weight.
However compare it with modern machinery and you can see the march of progress and many cars now have better power to weight ratios and a level of performance that exceeds that of the SEAC.
Nacnud said:
It is very unlikely to be carbon, they may have used aramid but on the basis of cost it is more likely to be glass.
There are some carbon SEACs around.
One is owned by Brm Brm (ex-2Sheds).
When i spokes to the guys at the factory many years ago, infact the chaps that layed up the SEACs, they told me that there were about 4 or 5 carbon shells made, yes brm brm has one of those.
they also used a small amount of carbon in many of the shells.
Tim
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