Buzzin like a bustard...

[mrzigazaga]

Hi Peeps..
I went out for a drive a couple of days ago but came across a bit of traffic and my so called new fuel pump started sounding like a wasp nest under the car and then it just died and so did the car..It did start a few times but wouldnt run then after a few more attempts it was ok..Im wondering now if the garage actually fitted a new pump and if so maybe i do need a swirlpot..How would i know if it had one originally?..Is there a plate or fitting that would of been left there in its place as when i questioned the ford guy about it he said where would i put it?..Does anyone have a pic of where it should go..Also iam not sure if there is a pre-pump filter..Maybe its an electrical fault but i did pay the buggers to check the wiring and fit a new pump..I did have some chugging but that was at low revs and idle which i think is the injectors that need a clean but that wouldnt cause the pump to fail..Any ideas..
Thanks..Ziga

[Mr Tank]

Mark

Might sound a bit off, but how much fuel did you have in the tanks!

Andy

[mrzigazaga]

Hi Mate..There was about 3/4 on the gauge..The pump was buzzing like the old one used to..Cheers

[honestjohntoo]

Your buzzing noise could be pump overload caused by crud in the fuel lines interfering with the pump action.

Somehow, it was able to cure itself - this time - but maybe not the next time, so you need to investigate

Not sure if the pump vibrates when there is just air in the fuel line due to not having a swirly thing somewhere in the system to prevent such a thing happening - as it were?

Either cause would stall the engine due to lack of fuel.

[Wedg1e]

Reminds me of two incidents: first was SteC's car that had been to a well-known wedge specialist who had replaced a length of hose between the tanks. Trouble is, they'd routed it up and over the chassis spine in order, presumably, to clear the exhaust.
What happened was that as the fuel was used, both tanks would drain at the same time, then the one from which the fuel was actually being taken would drain until it was empty as the U-bend was preventing the other tank from draining.
The gauge said there was plenty of fuel in but obviously it couldn't go anywhere!

In similar vein, my Esprit died on me one day with plenty of fuel showing on the gauge. The tanks were commoned to the pump but one tank outlet was blocked with a dollop of silicon so once the other tank ran dry the tank with the sender in it couldn't empty past the obstruction.

[mrzigazaga]

Cheers chaps..Not sure if any crud has got in there although last time i had it checked the guy at the garage pulled out a lump of cloth which somehow got in there?..Perhaps there is more..
There could be something in what you say wedg1e as i know they routed the pipe differently to how it was originally..There is a small clear plastic container near the pump but i cant see any filter inside..Should there be a filter before the pump especially if theres no swirlpot?..I will investigate it further..Cheers..Zig

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

As said quite a few time's injection pumps will not last very long without a pre-filter or swirlpot with filter. you will make sure the pre-filter is designed for injection as its different to the filter afterwards.

Give this guy a ring.
http://www.fastroadcars.co.uk
He's a very nice guy, but I forgot his name.
you can tell him I told you to call him.
He does the Ali sytec pre-filters (you will want one with a brass mesh pre-filter) if you fit one of these, it will make you pump last much longer. (also is a must if you have an Ali swirl pot (as these don't have a pre-filter)
Also a must if your swirl pot rattles, (as this means your pre-filter has come loose)

Just tell him the fitting you want on the and he will supply what ever you need.

Edited by TVRleigh_BBWR on Tuesday 1st March 09:53

[mrzigazaga]

Cheers leigh..Will speak to them soon..Apparently when the ford garage fitted all the new fuel pipe they re-run most of it to avoid the exhaust and prop but reckon because the pump is gravity fed that there might be air getting in as they are sensitive to being at angles?..There is no swirlpot or pre-filter..The plate where the pump sits was a bit knackered as well and they had to cable tie the pump to it..I looked at the wedge manual at the diagram on page 250 and it shows the fuel set up.. Q:What one on the plate is the pump and which one is the filter please...Treat the rear one as number 1..Thanks..Ziga

Edited by mrzigazaga on Tuesday 1st March 17:05

[Wedg1e]

The pump should be AFTER the filter - from memory the pump is to the front.

On SteC's car the new U-bend meant that one tank could still be about a third full but the pump couldn't draw it.

[jeff m]

mrzigazaga said:

I looked at the wedge manual at the diagram on page 250 and it shows the fuel set up.. Q:What one on the plate is the pump and which one is the filter please...Treat the rear one as number 1..Thanks..Ziga

Mark, looking at page 56 (L section of the parts manual)

The fuel pump is nearer the rear of the car.
Next to it is the accumalator.
The fuel filtre on a CIS is always "up front" a big bugger. On my car it is left front under the bonnet about halfway between air filter and headlight.

There are two types of swirl pot. One is "two in, one out" and one is just in and out with a T above it.

The accumaltor is after the pump, it smooths out the pulses of the pump and has a diaphram which maintains pressure in the system for instant starting.
Neccessary because the pump does not operate on the key, it needs the safety mod to operate from the coil. Too much info ..sorry
I'll find a picture 15 is the pump, 18 is the accumulator


The buzzing.
The fuel pump has an internal valve that will allow fuel to just fly round inside the pump as it is has the power/caperbility to supply much more than is needed. So even if the "out" was completely blocked it would still pump away without any damage.
Buzzing in an electric motor is usually when the coil is too close to the armature and it is "grabbed" by the armature(usually bearing or bushing). Or one of the coil windings has no current.

WARNING WARNING Be very careful testing a fuel pump, electric motors spark.
Normally they are full of fuel so no arcing. (Safe)
Once fuel supply is removed they only have fuel vapour.
There are a few Porsche 2.7 owners who lost more than their eyebrows.

Keep the fuel supply on the pump.

[mrzigazaga]

Thanks jeff..That has answered alot of questions..I now see that im missing the fuel accumulator which would give the reason for it not starting on the key and having to pump the accelerator..I was under the impression it was because of the missing relay..Does the accumulator also return any unused fuel as that would explain why i can smell petrol..The garage has probably routed the pipe wrongly also..I do have a T-join in between the tanks so i would imagine that a 2 in, 1 out swirlpot is needed..There was a small plastic container next to the pump which is probably someones excuse of an accumulator, I do have a bulkhead filter..
Cheers for that..Mark

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

Just a reminder that the new ali swirl pots don't contain a filter so your need a pre-filter as my post above.

[Transmitter Man]

Leigh,

Just to clarify.

With one of those Sytec pre-filters + brass element can one do away with a swirl pot?

Phil
420 SEAC

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

Transmitter Man said:

Leigh,

Just to clarify.

With one of those Sytec pre-filters + brass element can one do away with a swirl pot?

Phil
420 SEAC

The swirl pot is there due to twin tanks and to make sure the fuel pump always has fuel, esp when cornering, so would not recommend it.

[Transmitter Man]

Good idea.

Phil
420 SEAC

[jeff m]

mrzigazaga said:

Thanks jeff..That has answered alot of questions..I now see that im missing the fuel accumulator which would give the reason for it not starting on the key and having to pump the accelerator..I was under the impression it was because of the missing relay..Does the accumulator also return any unused fuel as that would explain why i can smell petrol..The garage has probably routed the pipe wrongly also..I do have a T-join in between the tanks so i would imagine that a 2 in, 1 out swirlpot is needed..There was a small plastic container next to the pump which is probably someones excuse of an accumulator, I do have a bulkhead filter..
Cheers for that..Mark

The accumalator does not return fuel to the tank (in theory) fuel is in the two front hoses of it. The third hose from the back which goes to the tank is a breather to allow the diaphram to move. In practice I guess it is pretty petrolly.
Everything forward of the accumalator should always have pressure even after a couple of weeks.
A temp measure if you have no accumalator would be to have the fuel pump operate on the key and not engine rotation. That must be a bugger to start.

I'm guessing the small plastic container on your car is a generic fuel filtre acting as a pre-filtre for your pump. Nothing wrong with that.(unless it's to small)

Can you see fuel in it? clean, dirty?
Should be clean I would think, considering the treatment your car has endured

I'm not sure what to suggest to be honest. I would clamp the fuel line and change the pre filtre as they are cheap. Then get the car so the fuel pump has power (change relay) remove the pressure regulator. (best place to check fuel as you are not going to cause a leak)
Do this with the ground removed from the battery.
Now you have control over the fuel pump from under the bonnet.
Just touch ground cable on the battery. Much safer.
Fuel should piss out your fuel regulator hole on to a rag(cold car)

I know you don't like messing with petrol Maybe it's better to call the Capri guy and say I think my fuel pump is fooked, was it new,recondition, or just "used". I wouldn't be too agressive though as he did a lot of work on your car for not much folding stuff.

With regard to having a "T" fitting, I bet your cars fills a lot quicker than mine at the pump

[mrzigazaga]

Cheers chaps..Took the fuel pump plug off at the metering head end so now the pump operates as soon as the ignition is on..Starts a million times better than before..It used to take forever..The plastic container next to the pump was post pump and was clear with no filter membrane or mesh..It is no longer there..I will have to look into a swirlpot..Pre-Filter..And an accumulator(if i can still obtain one)..But for now it seems ok..The other day the dipstick(rodney)snapped and i had to fish it out with a piece of wire..But i managed to get a replacement..Phew..The weather has been sunny in the south east so i have been out and enjoying the car..Yesterday a group of small school boys came running up to me outside my flat and said WOW..What is it...A ferrari..Bless..Then one of them proceeded to tell me that his dad filled up his car with oil and water and thats before they went any where...Lol...I then said to one of them that if you start saving your pocket money you can have one too..Ive never seen a kids eyes light up so much..

[chapperssx]

Zig sounds like your starting to have a little fun in the old beast, glad its slowly comeing together for you.
Great weather were haveing down south, make the most of it before the sun disappears again.

[mrzigazaga]

Hi Mate..yep..at long last..Hows your beast coming along..

[chapperssx]

Its still in blackpool but things are comeing along just waiting on a few odds and ends to complete the interior.