Experience with Superchips and Ford 2.5T engine

[gingerkid]

Hi all

this is my first post to PH although I am a long time lurker ...

I have a 2008 Mondeo 2.5T estate which I love. I am tempted to get a superchips bluefin to up the love a bit, inspired in no small part by monkeys video of the S4 tuning. I don't particularly want to have to upgrade other parts as well, other than maybe a fresh set of boots. Has anyone else superchipped a 2.5T Ford engine. I would like to know what the performance change is like, whether I should be concerned about reducing the lifespan of the turbo etc. I'm not too worried about the MPG impact or insurance, I just don't want to risk wearing the car out a lot faster than expected.

thanks ...

[revhed]

Hi there, I have the same engine in my Mondeo and Bluefinned it about 5 months ago. The map is pretty good although I was a little dissapointed with it on the initial drive after installing it. However later, on a longer drive with some better roads I found how the map is different to standard.

On part throttle it doesn't feel that different to the standard map and you retain all the driveability as standard. You feel the extra power on wider throttle openings with a noticeable shove at about 3.5k rpm. I like it and haven't noticed any drop in fuel economy but it may drop if you decide to boot it more often. With respect to wear and tear I think its more down to how you drive than the map. If you drive sensibly with the odd burst then I doubt anything will wear that rapidly but if you drive aggressively then sure parts will wear quicker.

There is more info over on Talkford than on here so may be worth reading some of the posts on there too.

Cheers - Chris

[gingerkid]

revhed said:

Hi there, I have the same engine in my Mondeo and Bluefinned it about 5 months ago. The map is pretty good although I was a little dissapointed with it on the initial drive after installing it. However later, on a longer drive with some better roads I found how the map is different to standard.

On part throttle it doesn't feel that different to the standard map and you retain all the driveability as standard. You feel the extra power on wider throttle openings with a noticeable shove at about 3.5k rpm. I like it and haven't noticed any drop in fuel economy but it may drop if you decide to boot it more often. With respect to wear and tear I think its more down to how you drive than the map. If you drive sensibly with the odd burst then I doubt anything will wear that rapidly but if you drive aggressively then sure parts will wear quicker.

There is more info over on Talkford than on here so may be worth reading some of the posts on there too.

Cheers - Chris

Thanks Chris. This is kind of what I was expecting. I had read elsewhere that rather than an outright change in 'attitude' if you like, it just makes the power more progressive across the range with the biggest improvement being mid range in gear response - which tallies with your comment. Will check out talkford as well, thanks for the tip.

As for how often I boot it ... well I try my best most of the time If I drove sensibly all the time I probably wouldn't read PH

[Fastdruid]

Having the exactly the same car, a 2008 2.5t Estate, I'm also interested, from doing some reading I think the best upgrade seems to be to fit an upgraded intercooler and chip it. Roughly 60-70hp extra.

I believe the Focus ST intercooler (and aftermarket ones) fit.

As for how it effects reliability probably best to check out the Focus ST forums, I'd think more people have tuned those than the Mondeo.

[minipower]

Fastdruid said:

Having the exactly the same car, a 2008 2.5t Estate, I'm also interested, from doing some reading I think the best upgrade seems to be to fit an upgraded intercooler and chip it. Roughly 60-70hp extra.

I believe the Focus ST intercooler (and aftermarket ones) fit.

As for how it effects reliability probably best to check out the Focus ST forums, I'd think more people have tuned those than the Mondeo.

With the Focus ST the remap is reported to affect the clutch. Many seem to report slip on the clutch resulting in an early replacement. Some upgrade it to the RS clutch but that is >£1000 which sort of negates the cheap power upgrade. Trouble is if you replace it with the standard one, you run the same risk of it slipping. This is what has stopped me so far from having my Focus remapped although I am not sure whether the Mondeo is different.

[thebigmacmoomin]

I have a Dreamscience remap on my Focus ST & it makes it so much better. It gets rid of the dip in acceleration mid way through the rev & it now boosts harder. Mine has 5 different maps, all with different power & torque. Just plug the laptop into the car with the cable & its done in a few mins. I use the DSCi map, but I tried all maps to find the best one. I have never had any clutch issues either, 2007 07 car with 30k on the clock when I started using the remap (about 15 months ago). I also now run an Airtec gen3 intercooler, k&n panel filter, sports cat & upgraded downpipe, however I cant feel any difference with this lot on, I had the remap first and it made such a difference that any little change wont be felt.

I know im a Focus not a Mondeo but its still the same engine.

Edited by thebigmacmoomin on Monday 8th April 22:12

[minipower]

thebigmacmoomin said:

I have a Dreamscience remap on my Focus ST & it makes it so much better. It gets rid of the dip in acceleration mid way through the rev & it now boosts harder. Mine has 5 different maps, all with different power & torque. Just plug the laptop into the car with the cable & its done in a few mins. I use the DSCi map, but I tried all maps to find the best one. I have never had any clutch issues either, 2007 07 car with 30k on the clock when I started using the remap (about 15 months ago). I also now run an Airtec gen3 intercooler, k&n panel filter, sports cat & upgraded downpipe, however I cant feel any difference with this lot on, I had the remap first and it made such a difference that any little change wont be felt.

I know im a Focus not a Mondeo but its still the same engine.

Edited by thebigmacmoomin on Monday 8th April 22:12

This is good to know. I got the information from a marque specific forum for the Focus ST and seeing how the cliosport forum could be a bit sensationalist I imagine this could be the case here. A simple rattle would mean that you were on the brink of belt disaster!

[Fastdruid]

minipower said:

thebigmacmoomin said:

I have a Dreamscience remap on my Focus ST & it makes it so much better. It gets rid of the dip in acceleration mid way through the rev & it now boosts harder. Mine has 5 different maps, all with different power & torque. Just plug the laptop into the car with the cable & its done in a few mins. I use the DSCi map, but I tried all maps to find the best one. I have never had any clutch issues either, 2007 07 car with 30k on the clock when I started using the remap (about 15 months ago). I also now run an Airtec gen3 intercooler, k&n panel filter, sports cat & upgraded downpipe, however I cant feel any difference with this lot on, I had the remap first and it made such a difference that any little change wont be felt.

I know im a Focus not a Mondeo but its still the same engine.

Edited by thebigmacmoomin on Monday 8th April 22:12

This is good to know. I got the information from a marque specific forum for the Focus ST and seeing how the cliosport forum could be a bit sensationalist I imagine this could be the case here. A simple rattle would mean that you were on the brink of belt disaster!

I had a bit of a read about the clutch last night and seems most of those with issues are running big power or doing lots of hard launches. The Volvo forums report the same.

I think the best bet is probably an intercooler and a remap, you might not get any more out of the intercooler than you would on a cold day but it'll be more consistent with less chance of engine damage.

Exhaust and airbox would be nice so you can appreciate the engine a bit more but might get a little annoying unless you get the right ones.

[stevenandalex]

I would never risk using a handheld divice to remap a car. You would be far better to go to a respected tuning firm, that will set your car up on a rolling road, using live mapping, after checking for faults. I would hate to see a post, that your car has run lean and blown it's engine. You will also see more power and torque, if your car is given its own map instead of a generic, base map. The handheld divices, are only suitable for company cars that are under warranty and to be fair, I bet Ford check to see when the ecu was last changed, if they have a premature mechanical failures. I drove 300+ miles to have my last car remapped, make sure it's done right, you car only deserves the best, or just leave it on the very safe oe map.

Steve

[gingerkid]

That pretty much sums up my doubts. I've never tuned a car before and the bluefin looked tempting but almost too good to be true. It sounds like it is ok if you invest a bit more to upgrade a couple of other components and put a bit more effort in, which take it beyond what I really want to do with this car.

That said, an exhaust on its own that gives a little more access to the 5 pot burble might be tempting

[Lurking Lawyer]

stevenandalex said:

I would never risk using a handheld divice to remap a car.

Horses for courses, but the Dreamscience remapping handset referred to above IS a well-respected and widely-used tuning method in Focus ST circles. It offers better value than a "one shot" tune like Superchips or Bluefin (at least IMO).

My 07 Focus ST ran with the Dreamscience remap (and no other mods) for 50K miles (the vast majority of that on the DSCI map) without any issue. I bought it for £250 in 2008 when I bought the car and sold it a couple of months ago for the same price. Can't argue with that..... I only sold it because it more than halved the cost of insurance to return it to stock.

No issues with the clutch either, BTW. It increases power from 225 to around 270 (on DSCI). I suspect it's the more serious modders, north of 300 bhp, who have had more issue with their clutch.

[thebigmacmoomin]

If you buy Dreamscience for £500, it comes with 2 lives so you can use on 2 car (not at the same time) which is nice. I bought mine on sale in Jan '12. Which I bought it earlier.

As I put previously, Ive never had any clutch issues but it seems 50/50 as there are plenty of people who have. It did worry me a little but I just went for it anyway.

Im used to the way it drives now, so it doesnt feel as quick as it did.

[revhed]

Having had a Mountune Focus ST and now a bluefinned Mondeo I feel some of the comparisons are slightly skewed. Firstly from what I understand the intercooler off the Focus ST will not fit the Mondeo as a straight swap and neither will the aftermarket ones as I looked into this a few months back.

With respect to 'generic' maps provided by a handheld device - what are the maps loaded on the car the are shipped from Ford? They're all the same just like the tuning companies handheld devices. Companies like Bluefin and Dreamsicence develop their own maps and usually list what upgraded hardware is required for each stage. Stage 1 being a remap alone and maybe a filter/exhaust upgrade.

On the Mondeo there are a few companies that offer tuning. The ECU is different to the Focus and you are limited to a few places. I have found the Bluefin a worthwhile addition and I would use another.

Ref the clutch thing. My focus covered 25k miles and I had clutch slip from the Mountune MP260 package which was supposed to be a 'clutch friendly' map. My Mondeo has 128K on the clock and at the moment (touch wood) the clutch is fine. I'm not even sure if the clutch/flywheel are the same in the Mondeo and Focus ST. Also you can get the RS clutch, Flywheel and Slave cylinder fitted on the ST for much less than £1000. Pumabuild do it for about £700 if I remember rightly.

For the O/P if you do go Bluefin you can order it, load it on you car and try for a few days. If you don't like it you send back within 7 days and get your money back less some delivery charges!

HTH

Chris.

[gingerkid]

Thanks to everyone for your replies, advice and experience, esp on my first topic.

I may consider a bluefin along with a different exhaust. Will let you know how I get on.