MK2 Focus - water leak into rear footwell - any suggestions?
Discussion
Folks,
While cleaning out the interior of my MK2 Focus this afternoon I noticed the rear drivers side footwell was absolutely soaking wet.
I lifted the rear seat up and it's dry under there, as is the boot so it's not coming in that way.
Any suggestions on what could be causing this? Door rubbers a well-known weak point on this car?
Cheers
Andy
While cleaning out the interior of my MK2 Focus this afternoon I noticed the rear drivers side footwell was absolutely soaking wet.
I lifted the rear seat up and it's dry under there, as is the boot so it's not coming in that way.
Any suggestions on what could be causing this? Door rubbers a well-known weak point on this car?
Cheers
Andy
Mondeo's suffer badly with the membrane behind the door card letting water in. What happens is the seal between the door and the foam membane dries out and starts to let water past, I've had it myself. Focus could be a similar problem.
I replaced the door seal first at £70 from the Fraud Stealer only to find out the problem was a £12 foam membrane. Bit messy to do though.
I replaced the door seal first at £70 from the Fraud Stealer only to find out the problem was a £12 foam membrane. Bit messy to do though.
Edited by Rich's Granny on Tuesday 19th January 18:35
Unfortunately it's not that obvious. Probhably the best way to tell is to open the door and feel around the gap between the door card and the door at the bottom when it's raining heavy and see if its wet. Or, take the door card off and shut the door then get someone to hose a lot of water round the door and see if you can see where it's coming from. if it's the membrane it will be coming from between the edge of the foam and the door itself. On mine I had a lot of water sitting on top of the door rubber inside the car and running down the plastic trim on the top of the sill onto the floor. my first thought was the door rubber before I found out about this common problem with the membrane.
The membrane is like a moulded foam panel which is bonded to the door with a seam sealer type stuff. They use it instead of the plastic sheet they used to use on old cars. What happens is the sealer dries out, cracks and starts to leak. Thats what happens on Mondeo's anyway, I'm assuming the Focus is the same. If the membrane isn't damaged you can very carefully peel it back, clean off all the old sticky and bond it back with tigerseal, sikaflex or similar. You need to make sure there are no gaps in the seal and also be very careful with the membrane 'cos they are very easy to damage when trying to remove. I replaced mine altogether 'cos it had been damaged before by being cut to get to the door locks.
The membrane is like a moulded foam panel which is bonded to the door with a seam sealer type stuff. They use it instead of the plastic sheet they used to use on old cars. What happens is the sealer dries out, cracks and starts to leak. Thats what happens on Mondeo's anyway, I'm assuming the Focus is the same. If the membrane isn't damaged you can very carefully peel it back, clean off all the old sticky and bond it back with tigerseal, sikaflex or similar. You need to make sure there are no gaps in the seal and also be very careful with the membrane 'cos they are very easy to damage when trying to remove. I replaced mine altogether 'cos it had been damaged before by being cut to get to the door locks.
Yeah I would check the door seals for any water coming in. Ive seen a few leak from the roof skin around where the hinges for the boot are located. But in my experience water sitting in a rear footwell usually comes from the front of the car and settles at the lowest point. That being the rear footwells. I would check the carpet around the pedals and under the glovebox for any signs of dampness. Failing that it will need water tested with various bits of trim removed. But first of all I would put a hose pipe on the doors and sit in it with a light to watch for drips.
Phoned the local Ford garage and apparently because a water leak into the cabin is classed as 'trim', the trim warranty is only one year so i'd need to pay for the repair. Also, they may need the car for up to a week!
I'm now hoping we are in for a very dry year, otherwise the car will be for sale shortly!
I'm now hoping we are in for a very dry year, otherwise the car will be for sale shortly!
Well I got into the car this morning and the inside of the windscreen was thick with ice. On checking the rear footwell when I got to work I found it worse than before.
I phoned the local Ford garage and booked it in - blah blah blah we'll need it for a week blah blah blah remember it won't be covered under warranty etc etc.
As the day wore on I got madder and madder so when I got home tonight I took as much trim off the offside of the car as I can - both door panels and the trim all along the bit where the carpet meets the door rubbers. Nothing obvious - all seemed dry, apart from the carpets (both front & rear). The nearside is bone dry.
I'll take the car along to the local jetwash at the weekend and get the Mrs to spray it while I sit inside but I am now starting to wonder if it's anything to do with the new windscreen Autoglass fitted on the car at the end of August 2009.
Anyone ever had a problem with a leaking new windscreen or any other advice?
I phoned the local Ford garage and booked it in - blah blah blah we'll need it for a week blah blah blah remember it won't be covered under warranty etc etc.
As the day wore on I got madder and madder so when I got home tonight I took as much trim off the offside of the car as I can - both door panels and the trim all along the bit where the carpet meets the door rubbers. Nothing obvious - all seemed dry, apart from the carpets (both front & rear). The nearside is bone dry.
I'll take the car along to the local jetwash at the weekend and get the Mrs to spray it while I sit inside but I am now starting to wonder if it's anything to do with the new windscreen Autoglass fitted on the car at the end of August 2009.
Anyone ever had a problem with a leaking new windscreen or any other advice?
Dave_ST220 said:
Did you check the foam membrane on the door panel was stuck all the way around?
Well, it appeared to be, but to be fair I did look at about 8pm with a torch. The task, later today, is to check properly including a trip to the local jetwash with the Mrs. Then i'll know if I can rule out the door rubbers and the door membranes. If so then I can put the door cards back on again.
I've had a bit of a search round the net and found a couple of people mentioning the cover for the pollen filter might be an issue, but I think that would make the nearside carpet wet, not the offside. I'll try and have a look at that today too though.
The only other thing I can think of is this replacement window. If I have not managed to trace it myself before it goes into the Ford garage on the 24th then should I contact Autoglass beforehand? Should I wait till Ford diagnose (possibly) the window as the problem THEN take it to Autoglass?
Should I mention to the Ford garage about the replacement window before they start looking at it, or wait for them to diagnose it? Should I be having another discussion with the Ford garage about whether the diagnosis/repair IS covered under warranty?
Bloody cars.
Well I took the car along to the Jetwash with the Mrs, gave the car 9 minutes under the rinse lanse and no sign of ANY water coming in through the offside door rubbers or the membranes behind the door cards.
I've now taken the drivers seat out and lifted the carpet - I am drying the car with a combination of a the Mrs hair drier and a big waffle-weave towel. I must have taken probably 3 pints out of the car already with the towel and it's now just drying off the felt soundproofing and the carpet.
Maybe once it's dry I can see where the water is coming in from better.
I've now taken the drivers seat out and lifted the carpet - I am drying the car with a combination of a the Mrs hair drier and a big waffle-weave towel. I must have taken probably 3 pints out of the car already with the towel and it's now just drying off the felt soundproofing and the carpet.
Maybe once it's dry I can see where the water is coming in from better.
Just updating this thread incase anyone ever has a similar problem and uses the search function.
I phoned Autoglass 5 mins ago and the lady I spoke to put me on hold and had a word with her manager. Apparently, in 9 cases out of 10 where there was no water ingress before a windscreen replacement then it's a fault with the screen installation.
She is passing my call to the warranty department who will call me on Monday and arrange for me to visit the local Autoglass depot (in Edinburgh) to get a water test done. If it proves faulty then they will replace the screen under warranty. If they can find no fault then I guess it's off to Ford.
It's going to take all weekend to dry the car out.
I phoned Autoglass 5 mins ago and the lady I spoke to put me on hold and had a word with her manager. Apparently, in 9 cases out of 10 where there was no water ingress before a windscreen replacement then it's a fault with the screen installation.
She is passing my call to the warranty department who will call me on Monday and arrange for me to visit the local Autoglass depot (in Edinburgh) to get a water test done. If it proves faulty then they will replace the screen under warranty. If they can find no fault then I guess it's off to Ford.
It's going to take all weekend to dry the car out.
I was thinking of PM'ing you Paul. The guy from the Edinburgh branch called me this evening and wants me to go in to their place next Sunday (21st).
They are going to try to take the window out without damaging it (with cheese wire he said) but they have ordered another screen just in case. I was worried they might damage the paint on the A-pillars and along the roof but he assures me it'll be fine.
Apparently they will be able to tell straight away if the screen or anything around it is at fault.
So - my questions are (to Paul):
1. Will they be able to get the screen out with damaging it, and more importantly the paintwork - i.e. do you use a different method to remove an undamaged screen than you would a damaged one?
2. Probably most important - will they be able to tell if there has been water ingress round the screen, for example by salt deposits from the road salt?
Don't know why Paul, but I thought you were in Scotland.
They are going to try to take the window out without damaging it (with cheese wire he said) but they have ordered another screen just in case. I was worried they might damage the paint on the A-pillars and along the roof but he assures me it'll be fine.
Apparently they will be able to tell straight away if the screen or anything around it is at fault.
So - my questions are (to Paul):
1. Will they be able to get the screen out with damaging it, and more importantly the paintwork - i.e. do you use a different method to remove an undamaged screen than you would a damaged one?
2. Probably most important - will they be able to tell if there has been water ingress round the screen, for example by salt deposits from the road salt?
Don't know why Paul, but I thought you were in Scotland.
oobster said:
So - my questions are (to Paul):
1. Will they be able to get the screen out with damaging it, and more importantly the paintwork - i.e. do you use a different method to remove an undamaged screen than you would a damaged one?
2. Probably most important - will they be able to tell if there has been water ingress round the screen, for example by salt deposits from the road salt?
Don't know why Paul, but I thought you were in Scotland.
No, I'm not in Scotland, but I know a man who is and I have no doubt he will help us both out here of the need arises.1. Will they be able to get the screen out with damaging it, and more importantly the paintwork - i.e. do you use a different method to remove an undamaged screen than you would a damaged one?
2. Probably most important - will they be able to tell if there has been water ingress round the screen, for example by salt deposits from the road salt?
Don't know why Paul, but I thought you were in Scotland.
First things first, AG do employ some decent technicians and going by what you've said so far, they appear to be speaking the right language. Everything will be OK, so I wouldn't worry too much. Just to give you an unbiased opinion and heads-up on a thing or two... here goes...
Answering your questions:
1. Yes, given the circumstances, I cannot see why this screen cannot be removed and refitted without damage to it, or the car. There is a small risk of the glass cracking but this is largely dependent on the guy(s) removing it and the method used to do so. Mistakes can also happen, but an experienced head will know of all these pitfalls and more importantly, how to avoid them.
Your best policy would be to have a look around the aperture (recess in which the screen sits) and take note (or pictures) of its condition before any remedial work is started. In the circumstances, I would ask to be notified of when the screen has been removed and under no circumstances should the screen be replaced until you have inspected the pinchweld. If they say no, a good reason is given in the second answer:
2. If there has been water getting past the bond line, it will be about as obvious as a testicle sack on a snake. The polyurethane (PU) bonds the glass to the car. When the screen is cut out, there will be a continuous line of cured PU on both contact surfaces, all around the screen and pinchweld. If everything is OK, it will be plain to see. If there is a gap, or a 'non-stick' area of this glue line, this is where the water has been getting in.
If any damage occurs to the aperture of the car, you will not see this underneath the screen; well, you will, but in six to 12 months time when the cancerous rust spreads enough to reveal itself.
The type of damage that potentially could occur is easily done: knife damage (although AG techs are forbidden from using such blades) chisel/blade damage (from cutting back the old PU) and some A-pillar trim damage (these are better removed when cutting out a screen; not essential, but better, esp for warranty work).
Andy, Sunday? Why Sunday - does this suit you, or were you talking to the guy that installed it in the first place?
Happy to switch to email or chat on the phone if you prefer.
PM to follow.
I'd be very interested in the final result of this.
I have a 02 Focus which last August had a new windscreen. All was fine until the frosts over Christmas when it appeared to freeze under the seal around the windscreen.
When it thawed I had leaking into the drivers footwell.
With Autoglass you have a life time guarantee as long as you own the car.
They arrived at my home and reset the windscreen saying that it hadn't been fitted quite right.
The leak continued.
Again phoned and was asked to go to the nearest Autoglass for it to be investigated under 'test conditions'. The windscreen was again reset.
Returned home, next day its still leaking.
I've noticed that it seems to leak, only a little bit but the mat is continuously wet. It seems to come from right at the front on the left.
Best of luck with your one.
I have a 02 Focus which last August had a new windscreen. All was fine until the frosts over Christmas when it appeared to freeze under the seal around the windscreen.
When it thawed I had leaking into the drivers footwell.
With Autoglass you have a life time guarantee as long as you own the car.
They arrived at my home and reset the windscreen saying that it hadn't been fitted quite right.
The leak continued.
Again phoned and was asked to go to the nearest Autoglass for it to be investigated under 'test conditions'. The windscreen was again reset.
Returned home, next day its still leaking.
I've noticed that it seems to leak, only a little bit but the mat is continuously wet. It seems to come from right at the front on the left.
Best of luck with your one.
wetfoot said:
It seems to come from right at the front on the left.
This is a familiar complaint which can be (but not always) related to the (bad) fitting of the screen.There's a very obvious thing to check on your model if you say it is on the left; you do mean passenger footwell, right?
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