Using a TVR in the cold....
Discussion
Hi folks,
I was just wondering what the opinions were on this one. I use my Tuscan 2 s all year round, and normally follow the advice of starting up, and driving straight off (sticking to the warming up regime of course), which as I understand it allows some decent oil pressure whilst you're warming the engine up. My question is whether this still applies in really cold weather, say 0-5 degrees. Should I still start up and drive straight off, or at these temperatures should I allow the oil to warm a little before driving off.....
Thanks in advance
I was just wondering what the opinions were on this one. I use my Tuscan 2 s all year round, and normally follow the advice of starting up, and driving straight off (sticking to the warming up regime of course), which as I understand it allows some decent oil pressure whilst you're warming the engine up. My question is whether this still applies in really cold weather, say 0-5 degrees. Should I still start up and drive straight off, or at these temperatures should I allow the oil to warm a little before driving off.....
Thanks in advance
Starting any car up and letting it tick over for 5 mins to "warm it up" is an appaling thing to do to any engine (let alone a performance engine) as it causes significant premature wear. DON'T DO IT!!
If it's very cold, and the engine is running a bit rough, start it and hold the revs at 1500rpm or so for no more than a minute. This keeps the oil pressure up and gives the engine a chance to get a little bit of heat into it and a chance to settle. Then drive off and follow the normal warmup procedure.
If it's very cold, and the engine is running a bit rough, start it and hold the revs at 1500rpm or so for no more than a minute. This keeps the oil pressure up and gives the engine a chance to get a little bit of heat into it and a chance to settle. Then drive off and follow the normal warmup procedure.
dvs_dave said:
Starting any car up and letting it tick over for 5 mins in the cold to "warm it up" is an appaling thing to do to any engine as it causes significant premature wear. DON'T DO IT!!
If it's very cold, and the engine is running a bit rough, start it and hold the revs at 1500rpm or so for no more than a minute. This keeps the oil pressure up and gives the engine a chance to get a little bit of heat into it and a chance to settle. Then drive off and follow the normal warmup procedure
I should have added i don't drive off hard after a meer 5 minutes i still keep the revs below 2.5k until the car feels right and water temp shows 80 degree's The chim you could just drive of nice and easy but the Cerb really needs 5 mins ticking over as the cams are still clattering when cold.If it's very cold, and the engine is running a bit rough, start it and hold the revs at 1500rpm or so for no more than a minute. This keeps the oil pressure up and gives the engine a chance to get a little bit of heat into it and a chance to settle. Then drive off and follow the normal warmup procedure
Got my Cams sitting on the bench right now i can post a picture up and show you how there is no wear on them at all after 56k?? the rest of the engine is as tight as a drum. It is called mechanical sympathy from a engineers prospective.
Care to elaborate how letting the car warm up at idle for a few mins is appalling? And if you oil pressure is low at tick over i would have your engine checked out i have strong oil pressure at tick over so i don't see the problem. Your engine will incur less frictional wear if you let it warm up at idle (at as low an rpm as it will run at) than if you just drive away. However, if you slowly warm it up at idle and then drive only a short distance before shutting down, the condensation formed in the crankcase (which didn't get a chance to evaporate/boil-off during the short drive) will then work it's mischief. This is the main reason that more frequent oil changes are recommended, by manufacturers, during cold weather months; to get rid of that condensation.
Edited by scotty_d on Wednesday 7th December 23:16
I've got a chim and have always thought you should drive straight off...however, I got some work done recently and was speaking to the guy, who happens to have 20+ years experience with just the RV8 and nothing else, and he recommended leaving it for a couple of minutes before driving in very cold weather.
I personally have no idea, I'm just passing on what I've been told.
I personally have no idea, I'm just passing on what I've been told.
scotty_d said:
I should have added i don't drive off hard after a meer 5 minutes i still keep the revs below 2.5k until the car feels right and water temp shows 80 degree's The chim you could just drive of nice and easy but the Cerb really needs 5 mins ticking over as the cams are still clattering when cold.
Got my Cams sitting on the bench right now i can post a picture up and show you how there is no wear on them at all after 56k?? the rest of the engine is as tight as a drum. It is called mechanical sympathy from a engineers prospective.
Care to elaborate how letting the car warm up at idle for a few mins is appalling? And if you oil pressure is low at tick over i would have your engine checked out i have strong oil pressure at tick over so i don't see the problem. Your engine will incur less frictional wear if you let it warm up at idle (at as low an rpm as it will run at) than if you just drive away. However, if you slowly warm it up at idle and then drive only a short distance before shutting down, the condensation formed in the crankcase (which didn't get a chance to evaporate/boil-off during the short drive) will then work it's mischief. This is the main reason that more frequent oil changes are recommended, by manufacturers, during cold weather months; to get rid of that condensation.
Got my Cams sitting on the bench right now i can post a picture up and show you how there is no wear on them at all after 56k?? the rest of the engine is as tight as a drum. It is called mechanical sympathy from a engineers prospective.
Care to elaborate how letting the car warm up at idle for a few mins is appalling? And if you oil pressure is low at tick over i would have your engine checked out i have strong oil pressure at tick over so i don't see the problem. Your engine will incur less frictional wear if you let it warm up at idle (at as low an rpm as it will run at) than if you just drive away. However, if you slowly warm it up at idle and then drive only a short distance before shutting down, the condensation formed in the crankcase (which didn't get a chance to evaporate/boil-off during the short drive) will then work it's mischief. This is the main reason that more frequent oil changes are recommended, by manufacturers, during cold weather months; to get rid of that condensation.
Edited by scotty_d on Wednesday 7th December 23:16
Oil doesn't circulate or spray very well when it's cold so doesn't get where is needs to very well. It's also harder to pump around which is why the cold oil pressure is always high. Don't confuse pressure with circulation in this instance. Keeping the revs above idle when cold for a little while ensures that the oil is being forced harder around the engine and getting to all the necessary areas as soon as possible.
Leaving it at idle doesn't normally achieve this very well, hence the significant potential for much higher wear rates during this time. Whilst modern mass produced engines are much better, it's still not very mechanically sympathetic. When it comes to the Speed Six which normally runs fairly low oil pressure at idle, it's especially important.
It goes without saying that all the time your car is "warming up on the drive", it's only the engine that is. None of the rest of the transmission, tyres, brakes, suspension systems etc are.
Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 8th December 02:34
dvs_dave said:
Oil doesn't circulate or spray very well when it's cold so doesn't get where is needs to very well. It's also harder to pump around which is why the cold oil pressure is always high. Don't confuse pressure with circulation in this instance. Keeping the revs above idle when cold for a little while ensures that the oil is being forced harder around the engine and getting to all the necessary areas as soon as possible.
Leaving it at idle doesn't normally achieve this very well, hence the significant potential for much higher wear rates during this time. Whilst modern mass produced engines are much better, it's still not very mechanically sympathetic. When it comes to the Speed Six which normally runs fairly low oil pressure at idle, it's especially important.
It goes without saying that all the time your car is "warming up on the drive", it's only the engine that is. None of the rest of the transmission, tyres, brakes, suspension systems etc are.
I agree with it is only the engine that is getting warm and i do always drive to warm up and as i said not sure on sp6 but if you jump in a ajp and try and drive off it aint going to happen from stone cold it really hates it so hard to even make the thing move on very cold days. hence i give it 5 mins to at least come off auto choke that keeps the revs up a little any way.Leaving it at idle doesn't normally achieve this very well, hence the significant potential for much higher wear rates during this time. Whilst modern mass produced engines are much better, it's still not very mechanically sympathetic. When it comes to the Speed Six which normally runs fairly low oil pressure at idle, it's especially important.
It goes without saying that all the time your car is "warming up on the drive", it's only the engine that is. None of the rest of the transmission, tyres, brakes, suspension systems etc are.
Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 8th December 02:34
I've hear letting a cold engine just idle causes glazing on the bores, I've never let an engine just idle so don't really know.
With both the Chimaera and the Cerbera I get in and go, sure sometime the Cerbera can be a bit lumpy for the first half a mile or so but it's never an issue.
In really cold weather I'd suggest it's just as important to take it easy until the tyres have warmed, I reckon most of don't have winter tyres fitted so the rubber is going to be very hard and very slippery for a fair few miles.
With both the Chimaera and the Cerbera I get in and go, sure sometime the Cerbera can be a bit lumpy for the first half a mile or so but it's never an issue.
In really cold weather I'd suggest it's just as important to take it easy until the tyres have warmed, I reckon most of don't have winter tyres fitted so the rubber is going to be very hard and very slippery for a fair few miles.
I personally have no idea what's best, but I choose to get into the car, let it idle for 20 seconds or so before setting off. Reason for that is that the AJP is very grumpy and lumpy on cold start up, and you can flood the engine by so much as breathing on the throttle to pull away, for the first 15 seconds or so at least.
Why would do rev (a winter cold) engine when regardless of the RPM (800 or 1500) the pressure is always 60 to 70psi?
Does higher rev's result in more circulation, rather than the pressure of the circulation? (I've always struggled with this concept, surely more pressure is linked to circulation volume)..
Does higher rev's result in more circulation, rather than the pressure of the circulation? (I've always struggled with this concept, surely more pressure is linked to circulation volume)..
KillerJim said:
Why would do rev (a winter cold) engine when regardless of the RPM (800 or 1500) the pressure is always 60 to 70psi?
Does higher rev's result in more circulation, rather than the pressure of the circulation? (I've always struggled with this concept, surely more pressure is linked to circulation volume)..
You need to consider "Splash".Does higher rev's result in more circulation, rather than the pressure of the circulation? (I've always struggled with this concept, surely more pressure is linked to circulation volume)..
No that's not something that happens at the urinal but a vital part of any engine's lubrication system.
The fact is many internal engine components requiring lubrication are NOT directly supplied by oil under pressure from the pump.
Take the Rover V8 as an example.
The big ends & mains journals are supplied with oil under pressure.
But the bores & camshaft rely on splash.
In fact all engines rely on splash to some degree, rings & bores wouldn't last 10 minutes without it.
Splash is naturally created by the rotation of the crankshaft, this throws oil all over the place internally & is used to get lubrication to moving components that do not benefit from a pressure fed supply.
Spash is crude but effective and dates back to the beginning of time.
When the oil is cold it's viscosity is such that splash lubrication can become marginal.
Warming up your car at a lowly 800 - 1000rpm idle is likely to be significantly accelerating wear on the components that rely on splash.
From 1500rpm splash starts to deliver lubrication where it's desperately needed even with cold oil.
Some additional revs from cold can therefore help, it's a fine line though, spanking it from cold can be fatal.
The best advise is not to let it idle on the drive to warm up, your dad may have done this with his car years ago but he was wrong.
What you actually need to do is simply drive the car at moderate revs until the oil is up to temperature.
Driving also puts a bit of load on the journals, a bit more oil spill at journals is no bad thing as it will be thrown upwards where it's needed most.
And remember coolant temperature has very little relationship to oil temperature, if the coolant has just reached 70 degrees it's highly likely the oil still needs time to reach its operating temperature.
That's why an oil temperature gauge can be very useful.
If like me you don't have one, with a bit of practice you can use your oil pressure gauge readings to appropriately establish when your oil is up to temperature.
Across the range of revs my Chim loses about 5psi of pressure from dead cold to hot.
EXAMPLE:
Cold idle = 55psi (Do not let it idle for extended periods)
Hot idle = 50psi (Oil is up to temp)
Cold over 1500 rpm = 64psi (Gently does it, self imposed 2500rpm limit until oil is up to temp)
Hot over 1500 rpm = 60psi (Oil is up to temp)
Once I see the hot oil pressures (but not before) it's time to give it some beans
Even oil at 20c is better than oil at 2cBrummmie said:
Its the salted roads and the chassis rotting before your eyes i would worry about...
On a less than freezing winter day try putting a hose pipe and a garden sprinkler under the car on a gentle (but not too strong) pressure. Leave it a few mins and pull through under the car to another position so the whole lot gets a wetting. Provided it's not too strong it'll clear off a layer or two of salt without getting water up into your engine bay/electrics etc.Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff