Engine rebiulds - what are you prepared to pay?
Discussion
Right then, in the recent light of the engine rebuild shenanigans I would like to ask the following questions.
What would you be prepaid to pay for an engine rebuild (not including parts) for either of the two folowing scenarios:
Cylinder head rebuild: i.e. the common finger follow - alternatively know as guide seals and stems in the rest of the motoring world including a cylider head machining.
Full bottom end (from the sump upwards to the rocker cover) rebuild (not including the cost of parts).
I think I can offer both of these services at the following prices (as long as the parts were supplied i.e. under warranty etc):
Cylinder head rebuild: £1250 + VAT
Full engine rebuild from the sump upwards £2500 + VAT
Does anybody think this is reasonable??? Would appreciate feedback
Also 6000 mile oil service: £400 + VAT
12000 mile service £500 + VAT
(again not including any additional parts required)
I would really appreciate feedback on these potential prices. In addition, I would be prepared to pick up any carin the home counties and London free of charge on a trailer at the owners door and drop the car off at the owners door when the car was finished. Any vehicles required to be serviced / fixed outside of this area would receive a free mileage recovery of up to £100 worth of diesel but would have to cover the costs of diesel over this value and of moving the vehicle once complete but could come and collect the car or the car could be moved back to the owner at recovery cost.
In addition we would be prepared to ship any tvr from any part of the world to be rebuilt and organise shipping to and from the destination the cost to be billed to the client i.e. we will organise the shipping and the rebuild / service and repatriate the car back to the client.
We are aiming for a rebuild turnaround time of 2 weeks maximum for each speed 6 engine.
I would appreciate any feedback on this as we are trying to offer a pseudo-goodwill service to 3 years of tvr customers supplied with SP6 engines that appear to be circumspect and keep everyone on the road at an economical and convenient value.
Best Regards
iMS-TVR
What would you be prepaid to pay for an engine rebuild (not including parts) for either of the two folowing scenarios:
Cylinder head rebuild: i.e. the common finger follow - alternatively know as guide seals and stems in the rest of the motoring world including a cylider head machining.
Full bottom end (from the sump upwards to the rocker cover) rebuild (not including the cost of parts).
I think I can offer both of these services at the following prices (as long as the parts were supplied i.e. under warranty etc):
Cylinder head rebuild: £1250 + VAT
Full engine rebuild from the sump upwards £2500 + VAT
Does anybody think this is reasonable??? Would appreciate feedback
Also 6000 mile oil service: £400 + VAT
12000 mile service £500 + VAT
(again not including any additional parts required)
I would really appreciate feedback on these potential prices. In addition, I would be prepared to pick up any carin the home counties and London free of charge on a trailer at the owners door and drop the car off at the owners door when the car was finished. Any vehicles required to be serviced / fixed outside of this area would receive a free mileage recovery of up to £100 worth of diesel but would have to cover the costs of diesel over this value and of moving the vehicle once complete but could come and collect the car or the car could be moved back to the owner at recovery cost.
In addition we would be prepared to ship any tvr from any part of the world to be rebuilt and organise shipping to and from the destination the cost to be billed to the client i.e. we will organise the shipping and the rebuild / service and repatriate the car back to the client.
We are aiming for a rebuild turnaround time of 2 weeks maximum for each speed 6 engine.
I would appreciate any feedback on this as we are trying to offer a pseudo-goodwill service to 3 years of tvr customers supplied with SP6 engines that appear to be circumspect and keep everyone on the road at an economical and convenient value.
Best Regards
iMS-TVR
The rebuild prices seem reasonable to me. I guess the issue is TVR supplying engine parts. Hopefully NS will see the benefit in having approved outlets for rebuilds - it is crazy having to go to the factory for something like fish fingers. These kind of prices would mean running an older/higher mileage S6 isn't such worry.
The turnaround time is a key issue here too. 2 weeks certainly beats 6-8 weeks with no real idea where you are in the queue and when it will be back.
Does your 12k service include tappets?
The 6k looks a bit steep to me but I don't know what it includes ...
Finally, no disrespect but who are you? An ex dealer technician? I see iMS TVR as your sig, tell us more.
Edited to say: Hang on, the rebuild prices are + parts. I'm not as sure now. How much on average would this come to? (assuming your crank/pistons/conrods are intact and it's a cam/follower problem).
>> Edited by Targarama on Saturday 14th August 09:12
The turnaround time is a key issue here too. 2 weeks certainly beats 6-8 weeks with no real idea where you are in the queue and when it will be back.
Does your 12k service include tappets?
The 6k looks a bit steep to me but I don't know what it includes ...
Finally, no disrespect but who are you? An ex dealer technician? I see iMS TVR as your sig, tell us more.
Edited to say: Hang on, the rebuild prices are + parts. I'm not as sure now. How much on average would this come to? (assuming your crank/pistons/conrods are intact and it's a cam/follower problem).
>> Edited by Targarama on Saturday 14th August 09:12
You must not know how much this costs usually then from TVR dealers et al. Go away and find out as we have been quoted rather a lot more than the possible prices placed on the site. If you read the post it actually says 'what are you prepared to pay?' i.e. what you think is fair and reasonable; also you dont drive a TVR with an SP6 engine which is what we are talking about here.
mjc said:
For a start, TVR Power do the 6 and 12 thousand mile sevices for £450 & £600 respectively INCLUDING parts and VAT......
Yes, and also I think it's quite important to INCLUDE VAT in any prices, after all, how many of us are running our TVR's through our business??? Not a lot I should imagine
The posting is about what customers think is fair and reasonable the idea being to post a price to see what exactly people are paying as the cost varies up and down the land as does the respective quality of the work. I have been quoted anything from £450 to £600 for a 6000 mile service which is an oil service. The figure quoted for the oil is £35 at my last oil service. So it takes 5 minutes to change the oil on the Tuscan so do you think that paying excess of £400 to get someone to change your oil is reasonable? Also you will get charged for any additional parts that any diagnostics may spring up at the oil service i.e. any dodgy lambda or oil sensors that seem to conk out on a regualar basis. I am just looking for what people think is fair and reasonable to pay to get their car 'serviced'.
If it's just an oil service then how come your prices are so expensive.
I know at joospeed we do a little bit more than change the oil on a 6K service, that's why we like the cars in for two days if possible ..
maybe you should check the TVR service schedule to find out what's involved at each service point and then treat that as the bare *minimum* you should be doing ..
Do your rebuild costs include taking the engine out and refitting? if so they sound ok to me .. if not then you're waaaaaaaaaaaaay over the prices already available .. remember these engines aren't complicated and most knowledgeable hiome techies can do it .. in fact I know of three people who have rebuilt their own SP6 engines in their own garages at home already.
best of luck with any new venture though, the more people there is to choose from the better the deal for the customers
hth
joo
edited to add : finger followers *aren't* the same as guides/seals .. might be an idea to get hold of a haynes manual for a Ford Cortina with *Pinto* engine before you start stripping anything ..
>> Edited by joospeed on Saturday 14th August 14:41
I know at joospeed we do a little bit more than change the oil on a 6K service, that's why we like the cars in for two days if possible ..
maybe you should check the TVR service schedule to find out what's involved at each service point and then treat that as the bare *minimum* you should be doing ..
Do your rebuild costs include taking the engine out and refitting? if so they sound ok to me .. if not then you're waaaaaaaaaaaaay over the prices already available .. remember these engines aren't complicated and most knowledgeable hiome techies can do it .. in fact I know of three people who have rebuilt their own SP6 engines in their own garages at home already.
best of luck with any new venture though, the more people there is to choose from the better the deal for the customers
hth
joo
edited to add : finger followers *aren't* the same as guides/seals .. might be an idea to get hold of a haynes manual for a Ford Cortina with *Pinto* engine before you start stripping anything ..
>> Edited by joospeed on Saturday 14th August 14:41
pies said:
zero
The engine should be rebuilt at TVR's expence until TVR prove its reliability
Not heard of a single car doing 50k without a rebuild
I do tend to agree, I don't mind at all budgeting for ICE, engine upgrades, brake upgrades, that is up to me, but I am not at all happy about having to fit an engine rebuild into my budget equation!
One of the reasons there doesn't seem to be too many high milers is that we are just too scared to use our P&J as freely as we would like to, due to the heartache of a potential massive engine failure, at least, that is what is always at the back of my mind, and surely, that's not right?
It has been said already that the S6 is a race engine, and should be able to take a massive amount of stress,, if that's true, why have my throttle pots worn already, at 13K miles? I, like I suspect the majority on here treat the car and mechanics with kid gloves when starting, but that still isn't enough for some engines apparently!
>> Edited by chris watton on Saturday 14th August 15:13
>> Edited by chris watton on Saturday 14th August 15:16
A more cynical look at the engine rebuild farce is possibly the following: if you talk to the current set of owners many (not all) do about 8000 miles a year. The new warranty situation with TVR's new cars is still pretty crap as after even 3 years most will only have done around 24000 miles and time for a rebuild so it is therefore unlikely that the engine will require a rebuild within the warranty period unles you absolutely drive it into the ground (albeit the engine is a 'race engine' and should be able to take stress as driving along at 80mph the car is still not placing a high degree of stress on the engine as it is less than half the top speed). Most other manufacturers give a time or distance warranty, you oculd look at the new manufacturers warranty as simply gloss. Speak to an actuary if you want confirmation of the risk analysis involved it is pretty obvious to me.
Though not a sp6 owner (ajp8) i'd agree with jools that more choice can only benefit all.
Have you got the parts supply sorted? Many owners involved with the factory/ MD network are struggling to get various engine parts.
I know that when my 4.2 needed a rebuild, the factory implied that while i had a free choice as to who did the rebuild, the factory would be supplying the parts & some may be a little slow to appear.....
Have you got the parts supply sorted? Many owners involved with the factory/ MD network are struggling to get various engine parts.
I know that when my 4.2 needed a rebuild, the factory implied that while i had a free choice as to who did the rebuild, the factory would be supplying the parts & some may be a little slow to appear.....
Being blunt:
>How much would I be prepared to pay *you* for a SP6 rebuild? Nothing.
>Servicing? Ditto.
Why, well I've no idea who you are or what your background is.
Someone has already pointed out, in the other thread about rebuilds that you posted on, that you seem to be talking as a potential buyer of the company (TVR) one moment & then as a servicing outfit the next.
As your postition is therefore unclear to me, and I've never heard of you before, I would not place my 40K car in your care.
>How much would I be prepared to pay *you* for a SP6 rebuild? Nothing.
>Servicing? Ditto.
Why, well I've no idea who you are or what your background is.
Someone has already pointed out, in the other thread about rebuilds that you posted on, that you seem to be talking as a potential buyer of the company (TVR) one moment & then as a servicing outfit the next.
As your postition is therefore unclear to me, and I've never heard of you before, I would not place my 40K car in your care.
This question is more of a theoretical one, I posed the question of how much are owners prepared to pay and what do they expect as everyone quotes a different price up and down the land for dowing anything with a TVR whilst every action involving most other vehicles can be defined as an hourly total.
<quote>Why, well I've no idea who you are or what your background is.</quote>
Also when was the last time you asked for the cv of the person you bought your non-tvr car from then? Next time you are out and about, go into a BMW, Porsche or Merc dealership and ask for a breakdown of the business capacity of the MD running the dealership - what a laugh. When you place your car in the hands of you local servicing outfit you have nothing short of their word that the person who will be servicing your car is actually qualified as there are no real rules governing this. All you are interested in at the end of the day is your car having the required work done in the shortest time possible and in most of my experience of the Tuscan by the time you get the car in to get it worked all you want to do is get the bloody thing back as you will have more than likely been waiting up to 4 weeks for it.
Also when was the last time you asked for the cv of the person you bought your non-tvr car from then? Next time you are out and about, go into a BMW, Porsche or Merc dealership and ask for a breakdown of the business capacity of the MD running the dealership - what a laugh. When you place your car in the hands of you local servicing outfit you have nothing short of their word that the person who will be servicing your car is actually qualified as there are no real rules governing this. All you are interested in at the end of the day is your car having the required work done in the shortest time possible and in most of my experience of the Tuscan by the time you get the car in to get it worked all you want to do is get the bloody thing back as you will have more than likely been waiting up to 4 weeks for it.
Touchy, still no reply about yourself tho'.
To answer your questions:
My non TVR was bought from a franchised main dealer. It has since been serviced at franchised main dealers.
I could care less about the MDs qualifications or business practises as I have the backing of the manufacturer (importer).
I do care that the dealerships have had good reputations. These are hard won & a good indication of the level of service that will be recieved.
My TVRs have been bought from franchised main dealers.
The first from one of long standing & good reputation.
The second from a dealership which evolved from the first, where I have known the staff for 3 1/2 years.
Servicing has been at said franchised main dealer of good standing & reputation or at a well known independant who also have a good reputation.
As for yourself, I have never heard of you (I mean as "iMS-TVR", obviously I don't know you personaly) & as such would not entrust my car to you.
If you really are in the business of trying to buy TVR or set up your own servicing concern, why don't you give us more details about yourself?
To answer your questions:
My non TVR was bought from a franchised main dealer. It has since been serviced at franchised main dealers.
I could care less about the MDs qualifications or business practises as I have the backing of the manufacturer (importer).
I do care that the dealerships have had good reputations. These are hard won & a good indication of the level of service that will be recieved.
My TVRs have been bought from franchised main dealers.
The first from one of long standing & good reputation.
The second from a dealership which evolved from the first, where I have known the staff for 3 1/2 years.
Servicing has been at said franchised main dealer of good standing & reputation or at a well known independant who also have a good reputation.
As for yourself, I have never heard of you (I mean as "iMS-TVR", obviously I don't know you personaly) & as such would not entrust my car to you.
If you really are in the business of trying to buy TVR or set up your own servicing concern, why don't you give us more details about yourself?
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