If TVR wasn't making wind turbines....
Discussion
I sat looking at the classifieds last night and got myself thinking!
In the seemingly gloomy world of high streets closing down, banks going broke and the threat of a triple dip recession, it would seem almost impossible for a brand like TVR to exist. If brands like Lotus are anything to go by, the Niche Car brand is in fact sadly a dying breed.
BUT
If TVR was alive today, I have often wondered what would they be building? And how much would it cost? Would it be V8 or 6 Cylinder? Or (Dare I say it) 4-pot supercharged or Turbod?!
I must say my favourite TVR was the last generation Tuscan, purely from a 'look at it' perspective, even now, 14-15 years after it was designed, if I see one I think 'wow' it still looks fantastic.
If they were still in business today I think I would want a 2 Seater Tuscan style car, powerplant? Probably a V8? Just because I think the grumbly, hairs standing up on the back of your neck, V8 noise suits the styling of the car. It would have to have limited slip differential for me and a very traditional Manual or perhaps (if it wasn't horrifically expensive!) a Sadev sequential box, not flappy paddles, but push pull BTCC style. A traditional TVR interior that looks insane, with corbeau or recaro seats wrapped in contrasting soft leather with Ipod connectivity and a DAB radio, because if i'm driving a TVR I don't want to listen to normal radio! If even at all! Some kind of Carbon fibre / brushed aluminium look and feel, be it in the dash or vents or somewhere but just to add that angry look which was so well done on cars like the Sagaris... And all for (realistically) £65k?
If only...
In the seemingly gloomy world of high streets closing down, banks going broke and the threat of a triple dip recession, it would seem almost impossible for a brand like TVR to exist. If brands like Lotus are anything to go by, the Niche Car brand is in fact sadly a dying breed.
BUT
If TVR was alive today, I have often wondered what would they be building? And how much would it cost? Would it be V8 or 6 Cylinder? Or (Dare I say it) 4-pot supercharged or Turbod?!
I must say my favourite TVR was the last generation Tuscan, purely from a 'look at it' perspective, even now, 14-15 years after it was designed, if I see one I think 'wow' it still looks fantastic.
If they were still in business today I think I would want a 2 Seater Tuscan style car, powerplant? Probably a V8? Just because I think the grumbly, hairs standing up on the back of your neck, V8 noise suits the styling of the car. It would have to have limited slip differential for me and a very traditional Manual or perhaps (if it wasn't horrifically expensive!) a Sadev sequential box, not flappy paddles, but push pull BTCC style. A traditional TVR interior that looks insane, with corbeau or recaro seats wrapped in contrasting soft leather with Ipod connectivity and a DAB radio, because if i'm driving a TVR I don't want to listen to normal radio! If even at all! Some kind of Carbon fibre / brushed aluminium look and feel, be it in the dash or vents or somewhere but just to add that angry look which was so well done on cars like the Sagaris... And all for (realistically) £65k?
If only...
finally somebody with a half realistic idea on what a current TVR would cost.
I think any current model would be in the 65-75k range would be similar in design to the last tuscans with body changes, probably running a crate engine ( if its good enough for zonda, and the rest its good enough for TVR) the main changes would be some sort of abs/epc as i think thats now mandatory and an air bag ( the thought if an air bag and tvr electronics scares me)
I also think they would be making 250-500 cars a year max, which is where the market was for the last 3-4 years of tvr.
Id like to think the T400/typhon was also being made but I'd expect that to be double the cost at around 150.
So ok here is my 2013 TVR Range
Tuscan 3 v8 - 70k ( probably the convertable)
Sagaris 2 v8 - 100k
Typhoon s6 - 150k ( the one for the purists who want a tvr motor. i also expect 150 to be list but them to cost much more once fully specced)
annual production
Tuscan 3 - 200
Sagaris 2 - 40
typhoon - 10
Oh yes and I almost forgot the most important models
Tuscan 3 Bodied racer at 40k
typhoon GT3 racer at 200k
I'll keep taking the tablets
as an aside to the people who still think they should be selling tuscans for 35k like they did in the 90's
i bought my disco 2 new in 2003 for around 23k, the current cheapest disco 4 is 40k so almost double in 10 years !!!
I think any current model would be in the 65-75k range would be similar in design to the last tuscans with body changes, probably running a crate engine ( if its good enough for zonda, and the rest its good enough for TVR) the main changes would be some sort of abs/epc as i think thats now mandatory and an air bag ( the thought if an air bag and tvr electronics scares me)
I also think they would be making 250-500 cars a year max, which is where the market was for the last 3-4 years of tvr.
Id like to think the T400/typhon was also being made but I'd expect that to be double the cost at around 150.
So ok here is my 2013 TVR Range
Tuscan 3 v8 - 70k ( probably the convertable)
Sagaris 2 v8 - 100k
Typhoon s6 - 150k ( the one for the purists who want a tvr motor. i also expect 150 to be list but them to cost much more once fully specced)
annual production
Tuscan 3 - 200
Sagaris 2 - 40
typhoon - 10
Oh yes and I almost forgot the most important models
Tuscan 3 Bodied racer at 40k
typhoon GT3 racer at 200k
I'll keep taking the tablets
as an aside to the people who still think they should be selling tuscans for 35k like they did in the 90's
i bought my disco 2 new in 2003 for around 23k, the current cheapest disco 4 is 40k so almost double in 10 years !!!
Edited by Graham on Thursday 7th February 10:14
....my 15 minute business plan in my lunch break:
You need to do something like the Americans are doing with the Viper, the Corvette, etc, also around 60k I think, ie super-cars for the ordinary bloke. - May be use one of their engines as some do already.
However you really want it to be a British company (for our sports car style and image) but owned by a major manufacturer to give stability, and a stock of parts/design time. A small private company is highly unlikely to last in the car industry without it. What you need is backing from a big player who is not really in the sports car market yet and would be willing to run a business to make its own Viper, etc. Perhaps someone left field like Kia - Doing well (relatively stable), but opens up a new market and revenue stream for them which does not impact on current business.
Can't call it TVR as someone wont sell and I wouldn't want to give him over the odds prices if if knew who was buying since you should not be rewarded for killing the old company. Things have moved on but we should show a link to the heritage so move all on one letter to start the UWS sports car company.
Happy to be chairman and figurehead - can you just arrange it for me and I will not let you down
You need to do something like the Americans are doing with the Viper, the Corvette, etc, also around 60k I think, ie super-cars for the ordinary bloke. - May be use one of their engines as some do already.
However you really want it to be a British company (for our sports car style and image) but owned by a major manufacturer to give stability, and a stock of parts/design time. A small private company is highly unlikely to last in the car industry without it. What you need is backing from a big player who is not really in the sports car market yet and would be willing to run a business to make its own Viper, etc. Perhaps someone left field like Kia - Doing well (relatively stable), but opens up a new market and revenue stream for them which does not impact on current business.
Can't call it TVR as someone wont sell and I wouldn't want to give him over the odds prices if if knew who was buying since you should not be rewarded for killing the old company. Things have moved on but we should show a link to the heritage so move all on one letter to start the UWS sports car company.
Happy to be chairman and figurehead - can you just arrange it for me and I will not let you down
TVR lost their connection with the 'mainstream' when they diverted from the 'modern take on trad Brit roadster, with a V8' pattern, the Tamora - good as it was underneath - was undoubtedly a bit of a design rush job inbetween ever more outlandish Tuscan/Speed 12/T400/440/T350/Sagaris evolutions.
A TVR model that would sell in the hundreds rather than dozens would have to be a 2 seat roadster in the Griffith/Chimaera mould, any decent OEM V8 - are there any duff ones around, anyway? - up front with a proper exhaust system will do really. From that platform one one would develop a fixed roof GT version (Cerbera/T4xx successor) given market demand. One could even take the latter to GT racing.
And that's it really.
A TVR model that would sell in the hundreds rather than dozens would have to be a 2 seat roadster in the Griffith/Chimaera mould, any decent OEM V8 - are there any duff ones around, anyway? - up front with a proper exhaust system will do really. From that platform one one would develop a fixed roof GT version (Cerbera/T4xx successor) given market demand. One could even take the latter to GT racing.
And that's it really.
Look back at the Classics, they all used small displacement "crate" engines. It was the styling that set them apart. Why not nab the 1600cc Turbo unit from PSA? It's been used in plenty of cars to good effect. Or, get hold of the 1600cc Supercharged Tritec from the first generation of BMW MINI's? I had two of those and it was a great engine!! Made a lovely noise, a reliable upper 20's/early 30's in MPG when driven hard, very different to most of the hot hatch engines.
Admittedly it's not in keeping with the raw V8's and S6's of the last 30 years, but would it help make a cheap and fun alternative to a Lotus? Which is really where you need to be aiming I reckon....
Admittedly it's not in keeping with the raw V8's and S6's of the last 30 years, but would it help make a cheap and fun alternative to a Lotus? Which is really where you need to be aiming I reckon....
ButtonIt said:
Admittedly it's not in keeping with the raw V8's and S6's of the last 30 years, but would it help make a cheap and fun alternative to a Lotus? Which is really where you need to be aiming I reckon....
Thing is, 40 years ago when labour was cheap and development costs were low, it made sense to build small-engined low volume sports cars. Now, it doesn't make any real difference... - anyone fancy a £50K+ car with a small hatch engine? Thought so.ButtonIt said:
Look back at the Classics, they all used small displacement "crate" engines. It was the styling that set them apart. Why not nab the 1600cc Turbo unit from PSA? It's been used in plenty of cars to good effect. Or, get hold of the 1600cc Supercharged Tritec from the first generation of BMW MINI's? I had two of those and it was a great engine!! Made a lovely noise, a reliable upper 20's/early 30's in MPG when driven hard, very different to most of the hot hatch engines.
Admittedly it's not in keeping with the raw V8's and S6's of the last 30 years, but would it help make a cheap and fun alternative to a Lotus? Which is really where you need to be aiming I reckon....
people seem to forget that tvr started with 4 pots,Admittedly it's not in keeping with the raw V8's and S6's of the last 30 years, but would it help make a cheap and fun alternative to a Lotus? Which is really where you need to be aiming I reckon....
MGA, MGB engines and then ford x-flows.
I still fancy a nice s2 / s3 vixen with a 1760 xflow in there
how about a tvr version of the g40 with a 3 pot turbo from ford !!! a mini sagaris
900T-R said:
Thing is, 40 years ago when labour was cheap and development costs were low, it made sense to build small-engined low volume sports cars. Now, it doesn't make any real difference... - anyone fancy a £50K+ car with a small hatch engine? Thought so.
I was just reading* about the Jaguar XF 2.0T ranging from (48K+ to over 68K USD 
!!!)and the question in my mind was "Who would even consider such a low-rent option??" Yes, in many places (China) it's a tax dodge but I'll still want a "real" Jag If they do that with the F-type, I'll predict certain failure.
- Car and Driver, March 2013. They also look at three $40-50K sport-utes with the 2.0T which are also not totally impressive
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