Full chassis refurb - does it add value?
Discussion
Hi, I have had an early Chimp for the last 13 years and time has now come for a change of owner. However, I had a professional, full, bare chassis refurb last year and am stumped as to how much premium, if any, I dare add to the asking price for the reassurance of a good as new Chassis. Anyone care to speculate?
It does strongly depend on the quality of the work, but lets assume the chassis restoration has been done properly.
Pay a professional £5,000 to restore the chassis properly.
Perhaps adds a maximum of £3,000 to your screen price?
Personally I think the whole chassis corrosion thing can get a bit overplayed, but there's no doubt it exists especially on the flaky white chassis cars.
HOWEVER!
A Chimaera with the chassis corrosion issue solved adds massively to the car's saleability, if not it's value by the same margin.
With this in mind I strongly recommend you hold out for the price you want, the next buyer with the right money will be just around the corner.
With the summer on the way and so few Chimaeras for sale with a fully restored chassis, it's bound to attract all serious purchasers within a practical geographic range.
You may even get into a bidding war, if you have two or more competing buyers I would recommend a sealed bid process.
Don't feel under pressure to give it away, these cars are already massively undervalued.
Cautious prospective buyers understandably buy into the chassis corrosion scaremongering more readily than most, so a Chimaera with a fully restored chassis is somewhat every buyer's holly grail.
One thing is for sure, any shrewd buyer will know it's far cheaper to pay a bit more for your car with a restored chassis, than it will be to purchase a lesser car and pay to have that one sorted.
Whoever is lucky enough to buy your car will undoubtedly save money even in the short to medium term, they will also get a car they can just get in & use.
A TVR you can use is always more fun than one in the workshop being repaired, especially when the sun in shining.
Cheaper too
Good luck with the sale.
PS: Add as many restored chassis photos to your advertisement as possible, each chassis snap will add more value than a regular photo of the car.
Remember, buyers already know what a Chimaera looks like on top and are equally terrified of chassis corrosion.
So one shot of the car from above, to three of the chassis, should be your ratio.
Pay a professional £5,000 to restore the chassis properly.
Perhaps adds a maximum of £3,000 to your screen price?
Personally I think the whole chassis corrosion thing can get a bit overplayed, but there's no doubt it exists especially on the flaky white chassis cars.
HOWEVER!
A Chimaera with the chassis corrosion issue solved adds massively to the car's saleability, if not it's value by the same margin.
With this in mind I strongly recommend you hold out for the price you want, the next buyer with the right money will be just around the corner.
With the summer on the way and so few Chimaeras for sale with a fully restored chassis, it's bound to attract all serious purchasers within a practical geographic range.
You may even get into a bidding war, if you have two or more competing buyers I would recommend a sealed bid process.
Don't feel under pressure to give it away, these cars are already massively undervalued.
Cautious prospective buyers understandably buy into the chassis corrosion scaremongering more readily than most, so a Chimaera with a fully restored chassis is somewhat every buyer's holly grail.
One thing is for sure, any shrewd buyer will know it's far cheaper to pay a bit more for your car with a restored chassis, than it will be to purchase a lesser car and pay to have that one sorted.
Whoever is lucky enough to buy your car will undoubtedly save money even in the short to medium term, they will also get a car they can just get in & use.
A TVR you can use is always more fun than one in the workshop being repaired, especially when the sun in shining.
Cheaper too
Good luck with the sale.
PS: Add as many restored chassis photos to your advertisement as possible, each chassis snap will add more value than a regular photo of the car.
Remember, buyers already know what a Chimaera looks like on top and are equally terrified of chassis corrosion.
So one shot of the car from above, to three of the chassis, should be your ratio.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 12th April 12:58
I am going through this right now.
I have a '99 chassis so I would suffer from the known issue of TVR's built at that time, namely that TVR were doing powder coating in-house and doing a poor job of it. My chassis was treated by me from 3 years old and was in reasonable condition though over the past 3 years I was only using it as a 'dry day' car. The outriggers were solid but coated in black waxoyl. This made the chassis unsightly and the car difficult to sell.
I invested in new outriggers and powder coated my wishbones. Cost was in the order of £2.5k In my opinion the car is now worth £2.5k more and it would be much easier to sell.
For me it means I can drive on wet roads now without worrying about tinworm.
A full chassis refurb will not pay you back in value. In the end you need to do a proper inspection of the centre frame to know if you can get away with outriggers only. Not easy but certainly possible with a snakescope or similar
I have a '99 chassis so I would suffer from the known issue of TVR's built at that time, namely that TVR were doing powder coating in-house and doing a poor job of it. My chassis was treated by me from 3 years old and was in reasonable condition though over the past 3 years I was only using it as a 'dry day' car. The outriggers were solid but coated in black waxoyl. This made the chassis unsightly and the car difficult to sell.
I invested in new outriggers and powder coated my wishbones. Cost was in the order of £2.5k In my opinion the car is now worth £2.5k more and it would be much easier to sell.
For me it means I can drive on wet roads now without worrying about tinworm.
A full chassis refurb will not pay you back in value. In the end you need to do a proper inspection of the centre frame to know if you can get away with outriggers only. Not easy but certainly possible with a snakescope or similar
RT racing in Sheffield do brand new oem chassis for £2990 inc Vat. Not bad considering out riggers are £1600 minimum.
had mine inspected by them in Feb and told very good for a 97 with several years of life in it before need replacing but I am pretty sure I would get 90% of the 3k back on re-sale, not that i can imagine selling my chim!
it is a chunk of cash to pay out but , price of mind, re-sale and future value can only increase.
had mine inspected by them in Feb and told very good for a 97 with several years of life in it before need replacing but I am pretty sure I would get 90% of the 3k back on re-sale, not that i can imagine selling my chim!
it is a chunk of cash to pay out but , price of mind, re-sale and future value can only increase.
Definately adds value, question is how much.... For me it depends what the rest of the car is like and what the competition is like. There are always plenty (relatively) of Chimps for sale. If the car is excellent all round I think you could get your money back. If not then its one decent car in the crowd, they all have different plus and minus points.
Been said before but at the end of the day its worth what someone is prepared to give you for it...
Been said before but at the end of the day its worth what someone is prepared to give you for it...
slippery said:
It seems to be more than just the outriggers that are the problem when you look at the ones that have had the body lifted. If I buy one, I will be happy to pay a couple of thousand more for a car with a relatively recent (within 3 years or so), full chassis restoration.
It's not that simple, in my case the car didn't need work, I just decided to do it. The photo's you've seen are of cars that are in real trouble having failed MOT etc., usually owned by people who never looked after their chassis. My centre frame is solid as were my old outriggers. It does not make financial sense to pay £5k so that you can offer £2k more in purchaseGasMunkey said:
3k for chassis
Plus paint
Wish bones
Bushes
Fuel lines
New nuts and bolts
Shed load of labour
It's not just 3k is it
More like 5-7k+ depending on extras like shocks, brakes etc
Plus paint
Wish bones
Bushes
Fuel lines
New nuts and bolts
Shed load of labour
It's not just 3k is it
More like 5-7k+ depending on extras like shocks, brakes etc
Buying the chassis is just the starting point, I don't think people realise the amount of work involved is a full chassis swap or restoration.
Truth is you are very unlikely to actually need a complete new chassis anyway, all but the very worst cases can be restored to a condition & finish that will far outlast what TVR gave you from new.
Both Southways Automotive & Willow Spots Cars offer excellent full chassis restorations in the £5,000 bracket, which I have to say represents excellent value for money given the work involved.
It's easy to overlook the little details with such work and a sensible man should also budget for a few unexpected additional issues, things you would be mad not to address with the body off.
So back on topic, if £5,000 is the starting point for a decent proper full body off chassis restoration, the OP should expect to add at least £3,000 to the screen price over a similar unrestored car.
The smart buyer looking to keep the car long term & is prepared to pay that extra £3,000, will instantly save £2,000 minimum.
The smart buyer looking to just enjoy the car for a year and sell it on the following summer will have a car that's far easier to sell & will return 100% of the sale price, or possibly even a small profit.
Either way it's the smart buyer that buys a car with a restored chassis
The key rule with buying any car (old ones especially) is:
"Let the former keeper spend the money on bringing it up to snuff"
He'll never get all his money back when he comes to sell, so the new owner wins every time
mph.52 said:
Many thanks for your comments, I do realise I won't get back anywhere near the cost of the refurb (6k + the dreaded)which included new tubular wishbones, heatshielding, nitrons serviced, etc etc but it is reassuring that you think that some of the expense may be recouped.
Good luck with the sale mph.52.I recommend pricing it strong & being patient.
The right buyer with the right money will always eventually come along for a Chimaera with a fully restored chassis.
These cars are massively undervalued as it is, a Chimaera is an amazingly practical mix of usable modern & charming classic.
If you like your sports cars British & old school, you simply will not find something with as much personality, character, handling, braking, performance & practicality..... this side of an Eagle E-Type.
What else are you going to buy for the money?
An MGB or a TR6, both charming in their own BMC & Stanpart ways... but don't even contemplate comparing either with a Chimaera.... in every respect a TVR Chimaera exists in a different galaxy to those old parts bin relics.
Just use a tiny fraction of the £100,000 you've just saved by not buying the Eagle E-Type to solve the very minor little TVR niggles & sympathetically making it perform even better,.... and to my mind a TVR Chimaera has to be the best value for money classic sports car ever.
One with Nitrons & a full chassis restoration is going to be 98% there already, and for a price you'll never achieve having a lesser car restored to the same standard.
BARGAIN!
Warning: THIS SITUATION WILL NOT LAST!
ChimpOnGas said:
The key rule with buying any car (old ones especially) is:
"Let the former keeper spend the money on bringing it up to snuff"
My addition to that rule is not to assume that £££ spent by the previous owner means that plenty of other things won't need fixing in the first year of ownership "Let the former keeper spend the money on bringing it up to snuff"
mph.52 said:
Hi, I have had an early Chimp for the last 13 years and time has now come for a change of owner. However, I had a professional, full, bare chassis refurb last year and am stumped as to how much premium, if any, I dare add to the asking price for the reassurance of a good as new Chassis. Anyone care to speculate?
I'm reminded of those old public service adverts where a home owner does all the right things when he has a burst pipe, but ... "what a shame you let it happen in the first place".I can't see how you can add a premium for restoring something to the condition it should have been in in the first place. Yes, if someone was buying the car and the chassis wasn't sound they would be justified in knocking the price down. No, there is no justification for asking more for something you broke then fixed.
You had the car 13 years and allowed the chassis to rot, you had to pay for a refurb, and now you want to pass that cost on to a potential new owner? Good luck with that.
Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear, but I'd be surprised if I was the only one to think it would be a bit of a cheek, and you might find people moving swiftly on when they get to that part of your ad. If you were to simply stress the overall excellent condition of your car as justification for a higher price, without stressing that its higher because you fixed the broken bits, you might get a better response, but only if the condition is perceptibly better than others.
Edited by VictorMeldrew on Friday 12th April 17:25
The chassis is a mechanical component that needs to be structurally capable of doing its job and it needs to have adequate protection to avoid deterioration. You do not need a chassis that you could eat your dinner off.
For Griff/Chim chassis early chassis refurbs were 'body off', later 'body lift', as specialist knowledge improves so learning happens and the job becomes simpler. Several reputable TVR specialists now carryout 'body on' as this has several advantages that outweigh any disadvantages, and yes provided that the centre frame is solid access is available. Taking the wishbones, half shafts, exhaust, prop shaft and where required the headers off will allow sufficient access to the centre frame for cleaning, curing and painting. You can do a full 'body off' but you're doing it either because your centre frame is in terrible condition or just to make your chassis look nice.
If a chassis was in such bad condition that it actually required full body off then what does that tell you about the rest of the car.
For Griff/Chim chassis early chassis refurbs were 'body off', later 'body lift', as specialist knowledge improves so learning happens and the job becomes simpler. Several reputable TVR specialists now carryout 'body on' as this has several advantages that outweigh any disadvantages, and yes provided that the centre frame is solid access is available. Taking the wishbones, half shafts, exhaust, prop shaft and where required the headers off will allow sufficient access to the centre frame for cleaning, curing and painting. You can do a full 'body off' but you're doing it either because your centre frame is in terrible condition or just to make your chassis look nice.
If a chassis was in such bad condition that it actually required full body off then what does that tell you about the rest of the car.
Edited by bobfather on Friday 12th April 16:48
ChimpOnGas said:
You may even get into a bidding war, if you have two or more competing buyers I would recommend a sealed bid process.
Sealed bids - lmao. Have you been on the laughing gas? If I was a buyer, this sort of nonsense would make me walk. Once you've decided where to pitch your price, as long as you and any potential buyer are both happy with the figures, its job done.
Good luck with the sale.
VictorMeldrew said:
I'm reminded of those old public service adverts where a home owner does all the right things when he has a burst pipe, but ... "what a shame you let it happen in the first place".
I can't see how you can add a premium for restoring something to the condition it should have been in in the first place. Yes, if someone was buying the car and the chassis wasn't sound they would be justified in knocking the price down.
You had the car 13 years and allowed the chassis to rot, you had to pay for a refurb, and now you want to pass that cost on to a potential new owner? Good luck with that.
Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear, but I'd be surprised if I was the only one to think it would be a bit of a cheek, and you might find people moving swiftly on when that get to that part of your ad. If you were to simply stress the overall excellent condition of your car as justification for a higher price, without stressing that its higher because you fixed the broken bits, you might get a better response, but only if the condition is perceptibly better than others.
Surprised at these rather naive comments TBH.I can't see how you can add a premium for restoring something to the condition it should have been in in the first place. Yes, if someone was buying the car and the chassis wasn't sound they would be justified in knocking the price down.
You had the car 13 years and allowed the chassis to rot, you had to pay for a refurb, and now you want to pass that cost on to a potential new owner? Good luck with that.
Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear, but I'd be surprised if I was the only one to think it would be a bit of a cheek, and you might find people moving swiftly on when that get to that part of your ad. If you were to simply stress the overall excellent condition of your car as justification for a higher price, without stressing that its higher because you fixed the broken bits, you might get a better response, but only if the condition is perceptibly better than others.
All Griffs & Chims will be breaking the 20 years young barrier soon.
And trust me that's an old car, the fact is all old cars will require restoration at some point & to some degree, unless it's a museum piece.
Restoration is seldom a way to make money, the time involved is huge so the costs very often exceed the cars market value.
If restoration is an eventual inevitability for all our cars (which it is), it's way better if someone else pays for for it rather than you.
You simply never get your investment back on a proper professional restoration unless you are extremely lucky & values rocket on your particular make & model of classic.
There have been a few cases like this over the years but it's extremely rare, it's just fortunate that owners of old cars often choose to accept the illogical economics of a restoration seeing the money they lose as their hobby spend.
Old cars are a passion after all.
It always been like this, I trained in vintage & classic restoration in the early/mid 90's, one of the companies I worked for used to bring XK's, E-Types, Healeys, Triumphs ect in from dry states in the US and we would restore them.
It was a reasonable business model for a short while during the classic car bubble, but it didn't last.
Black Wednesday came on the 16th of September 1992, & agreed valued classic cars were getting pushed in the Thames for the insurance payout, prices literally plummeted overnight.
During this period you could buy a very very nicely restored series 1 E-Type roadster at auction for £22,000, or you could come to us & we'd build you the same car from a decent shell in 18 months for £33,000.
People stayed away in droves, the economics just fell apart overnight & I sought a new career.
I've been around classic cars & older stuff for quite a few years now & the one thing I can tell you with 100% confidence is.....
Buy the very best example you can afford, let the previous owner pay all the big bills, and you'll save yourself a lot of money in the long run.
That's why buying a Chimaera with a restored chassis is such a smart move, the chassis corrosion issue will come to us all one day, so if someone else has already done it for you you'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
Just don't confuse a quick down & dirty body on outrigger job, with a proper full body off chassis restoration, they are worlds apart!
I don't care what any so called TVR specialist tells me, you simply cant make a proper job of restoring a TVR chassis without removing the body and most if not all of the mechanicals & suspension too.
But I guess there's a market for all approaches, given the wide variety of owner's budgets.
ChimpOnGas said:
Surprised at these rather naive comments TBH.
All Griffs & Chims will be breaking the 20 years young barrier soon.
And trust me that's an old car, the fact is all old cars will require restoration at some point & to some degree, unless it's a museum piece.
Not naive at all. Yes, my 96 Chim will be 20 in a couple of years, however the chassis was stripped, etched and protected before it was three years old, and it has been kept in dehumidified comfort ever since. OK, hardly your typical example, but I'm not anticipating a full chassis refurb any time soon, or ever in my lifetime.All Griffs & Chims will be breaking the 20 years young barrier soon.
And trust me that's an old car, the fact is all old cars will require restoration at some point & to some degree, unless it's a museum piece.
Yes, as a buyer it pays to make sure the condition is right, but the fact remains that the prevailing market price is for a car that is sound, so a buyer shouldn't expect to have to pay over the odds specifically for a car that has been refurbed. As you point out "old cars will require restoration at some point" (though not all of them
), so surely if there is an expectation that the chassis may be an issue there must also an expectation that this widely recognised issue will have been dealt with on any car being sold? Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff