Origin of the speed six engine
Discussion
WildfireS3 said:
Twas what I though as well.
What's the FTO like Matt? Insurance any better than the S?
good, insurance cheaper, but not by a huge amount.
not got the huge smiles per gallon that the 'S' did, but alot nicer everyday.
and it doesn't leak
still the 'S' will be getting attention soon, from me and the father, alittle tyding here, tweaking there....
If you read the Tuscan Owners Yahoo Group you will hear a different story about the origin and problems of the Speed Six engine as told by Melling personally to an owner.
Apparently Melling is willing to give a talk to Tuscan/TVR owners about the engine and what can be done to improve it.
Apparently Melling is willing to give a talk to Tuscan/TVR owners about the engine and what can be done to improve it.
19560 said:
For all the crap Al Mellings has caused and for the frustration of Speed 6 ....... and thanks as well Al for the AJP
Same engine, it's a modular design. Also a V6, V10 and V12.
How do you work that one out. The Speed 6 is in-line. The Aj is a V configuration (sp?)
Some of the basic valve train may share ideas, but I wouldn't call it modular.
Paul.
daggart said:
For all the crap Al Mellings has caused and for the frustration of Speed 6 ownership they should tie one round his neck and chuck him off a pier! and thanks as well Al for the AJP you put in my car,it's been two month's now and the Cerbera is still off the road!!.
You'll be taking those words back if you knew the half of it! Al Melling cannot be blamed for the problems attributed to the AJP8 or Speed 6, TVR are who you should be lynching...
The rumours go that it was a dodgy grade of metal used from a 
, so unless Melling's technical specification said this would be within tolerence then it's nothing to do with him.
In which case it's similar to me telling a client to buy at £20k database server and them moaning when their £2k doesn't work - not my problem...
I'd be interested in his talk if it does go ahead though...
, so unless Melling's technical specification said this would be within tolerence then it's nothing to do with him. In which case it's similar to me telling a client to buy at £20k database server and them moaning when their £2k doesn't work - not my problem...
I'd be interested in his talk if it does go ahead though...
19560 said:
How do you work that one out. The Speed 6 is in-line. The Aj is a V configuration (sp?)
Some of the basic valve train may share ideas, but I wouldn't call it modular.
No need to work it out because there was a lot of publicity from TVR at the time. All designed together.
I think you are getting confused with the Speed 6 and the Speed 12 - the 12 is basically 2 Speed 6 engines put together in to a V, the AJP8 is quite different and comes from a modular V12 - have a look at www.mcdeng.co.uk/ for more info on the original design and other stuff MCD have done
Graham
Graham66 said:
I think you are getting confused with the Speed 6 and the Speed 12 - the 12 is basically 2 Speed 6 engines put together in to a V, the AJP8 is quite different and comes from a modular V12
So you are now saying that TVR designed two V12s together - one which ran as a test bed for the straight six heads and one in order to develop the V8, interesting...
Graham66 said:
have a look at www.mcdeng.co.uk/ for more info on the original design and other stuff MCD have done
Also interesting but what's the revevance?
Please be very, very careful about slinging around accusations that Melling is responsible for failures of the Speed 6. This has almost got legal previously as Melling doesn't take kindly to such accusations. Don't set yourself up for a libel case!
Also, be aware that he has designed many engines and is a veteran in the business - that wouldn't be the case if he didn't know his onions.
Who you hold responsible for the Speed 6 fiasco will very much depend who you talk to. I have my own views but airing them in a public form isn't wise.
Also, be aware that he has designed many engines and is a veteran in the business - that wouldn't be the case if he didn't know his onions.
Who you hold responsible for the Speed 6 fiasco will very much depend who you talk to. I have my own views but airing them in a public form isn't wise.
I thought that the AJP (V8) came first, the intention being that it COULD become a V6, V10 or V12.
Then the straight six was schemed, then when the Speed 12 prototype was hand-fabricated, the cylinder spacing etc was chosen such that the existing straight six heads could be used. Obviously someting went awry in the original plans for the modular AJP then...
Then the straight six was schemed, then when the Speed 12 prototype was hand-fabricated, the cylinder spacing etc was chosen such that the existing straight six heads could be used. Obviously someting went awry in the original plans for the modular AJP then...
PetrolTed said:
Please be very, very careful about slinging around accusations that Melling is responsible for failures of the Speed 6. This has almost got legal previously as Melling doesn't take kindly to such accusations. Don't set yourself up for a libel case!
Also, be aware that he has designed many engines and is a veteran in the business - that wouldn't be the case if he didn't know his onions.
Who you hold responsible for the Speed 6 fiasco will very much depend who you talk to. I have my own views but airing them in a public form isn't wise.
Fair comment, Ted.
...but while I happily admit to knowing nothing about the design/manufacturing problems of the Speed 6, there is clearly something wrong with the engine.
Regardless of who (if anyone) is responsible for the problems, it offends my belief in the principle of freedom of speech not to allow discussion, or to allow the blame to settle on TVR by implication, simply because Melling is particularly litigious.
I'm sure he does 'know his onions', but does that mean that the many capable engineer's at TVR don't?
He who sues, wins?
Still, I respect your desire to keep Pistonheads impartial in these matters.
Surely this is the old 'I can say what I want because I'm anonymous' attitude that is so prevalent on web forums.
If you wrote an article for a TVR magazine would you say the same? What about if you met the designer in person?
If you admit to not understanding the cause of the issues then why cast blame?
As far as the engine config goes I read that the AJP was based on a modular design that was commissioned by a racing team. When it was deemed no longer suitable TVR bought the design and modified it.
I also believe there was some commerical agreement which resulted in a commission been paid for each unit produced.
TVR then designed the s6 independantly and I assume made the decision that it would be better to use 2xs6's than change the ajp8 to a 12?
D
If you wrote an article for a TVR magazine would you say the same? What about if you met the designer in person?
If you admit to not understanding the cause of the issues then why cast blame?
As far as the engine config goes I read that the AJP was based on a modular design that was commissioned by a racing team. When it was deemed no longer suitable TVR bought the design and modified it.
I also believe there was some commerical agreement which resulted in a commission been paid for each unit produced.
TVR then designed the s6 independantly and I assume made the decision that it would be better to use 2xs6's than change the ajp8 to a 12?
D
DJ...I'm not casting blame.
I don't own an AJP engined car, therefore it doesn't really bother me whether the engine is reliable or not (in fact, the less reliable the better - it helps bolster values of my RV8 engined Griffith if later cars keep blowing up expensively!), and really have no idea whether the blame lies with TVR, Melling, or a combination of the two.
There is enough anecdotal evidence on this forum alone, though, to suggest that there is a serious problem with the Speed 6 engine. Whilst I value Ted's efforts beyond measure in managing such a useful resource as Pistonheads, I am very uncomfortable when anyone, by threat of litigation or any other means, seeks to stifle free speech or discussion.
If I wrote an article for a TVR magazine, would I say the same?...yes. If I met the designer, would I say the same?...yes.
The AJP engine clearly has a real or percieved problem with reliability which is a genuine threat to TVR's future...I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss the issue or seek answers to the problem.
Hell, if you check out the Lotus Elise or MGF forums, you'll find that people are investigating legal action against Rover for alleged head gasket failure problems on the K-series which are far less significant that the alleged problems with the Speed 6, let alone worrying about whether they should be discussing it or not!
>> Edited by Martin_S on Thursday 28th October 00:33
I don't own an AJP engined car, therefore it doesn't really bother me whether the engine is reliable or not (in fact, the less reliable the better - it helps bolster values of my RV8 engined Griffith if later cars keep blowing up expensively!), and really have no idea whether the blame lies with TVR, Melling, or a combination of the two.
There is enough anecdotal evidence on this forum alone, though, to suggest that there is a serious problem with the Speed 6 engine. Whilst I value Ted's efforts beyond measure in managing such a useful resource as Pistonheads, I am very uncomfortable when anyone, by threat of litigation or any other means, seeks to stifle free speech or discussion.
If I wrote an article for a TVR magazine, would I say the same?...yes. If I met the designer, would I say the same?...yes.
The AJP engine clearly has a real or percieved problem with reliability which is a genuine threat to TVR's future...I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss the issue or seek answers to the problem.
Hell, if you check out the Lotus Elise or MGF forums, you'll find that people are investigating legal action against Rover for alleged head gasket failure problems on the K-series which are far less significant that the alleged problems with the Speed 6, let alone worrying about whether they should be discussing it or not!
>> Edited by Martin_S on Thursday 28th October 00:33
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