It's dangerous out there
Discussion
Yesterday my heart missed a beat. A wheelspin in 3rd gear, in a straight line, without pushing. Although the weather was dry, there was 'feel' of moisture in the air so I was taking it gently (or so I thought).
I've come to the conclusion that driver aids (ABS, TC, etc..) are a good thing! However, jumping from a new BMW into a TVR requires a 'step-change' in concentration and respesct for the road.
Be careful out there guys - apart from 'self preservation', there are innocent people in other cars.
Sorry if I sound patronising, but I was given a 'yellow card' and I don't want anyone to receive a 'red card' (if you follow my thinking).
I've come to the conclusion that driver aids (ABS, TC, etc..) are a good thing! However, jumping from a new BMW into a TVR requires a 'step-change' in concentration and respesct for the road.
Be careful out there guys - apart from 'self preservation', there are innocent people in other cars.
Sorry if I sound patronising, but I was given a 'yellow card' and I don't want anyone to receive a 'red card' (if you follow my thinking).
It has been noticeably slippery around Hampshire these last few days. On another thread I theorise that it is something to do with misty moisty slimy weather without real rain to wash the roads down.
How long have you had the Griff? If this is your first winter you are in for quite an experience...the first winter we had the Chimaera was what convinced me to do an Advanced Driving course...
How long have you had the Griff? If this is your first winter you are in for quite an experience...the first winter we had the Chimaera was what convinced me to do an Advanced Driving course...
Don said:
It has been noticeably slippery around Hampshire these last few days. On another thread I theorise that it is something to do with misty moisty slimy weather without real rain to wash the roads down.
How long have you had the Griff? If this is your first winter you are in for quite an experience...the first winter we had the Chimaera was what convinced me to do an Advanced Driving course...
This is my first winter with the Griff and I've already applied to go on an advanced driving course!
gbbird said:
This happened to me just the other week. In the evening, road not wet but a little damp, and the back end twitched as i accelerated away in third and in a straight line. A bit scary
Exactly the same for me last night, overtaking a lorry with another car behind me following.
Big slide at part throttle in third, I think it scared him more than me.
srebbe64 said:
This is my first winter with the Griff and I've already applied to go on an advanced driving course!
Good man. Whereabouts in Hants are you? I'm an Observer with the Basingstoke IAM Group. Who are you doing the course with?
Oh - and seriously - your Griff will spin the rears with almost no provocation. It will do it in 1st, 2nd, 3rd...whatever. Never apply any significant accelerator until in a straight line and, as you've found out, even then feather the throttle and be ready to lift to restore grip if the back end squirms.
Oh...and watch out changing down. If you do it under braking you can (surprisingly easily with a TVR V8) break traction on the rear wheels - best (on road) is to avoid changing down and braking at all (IAM System), next - if you can Heel and Toe you can do that, if you can't do either - avoid changing down in anything other than a straight line (which is best anyway).
Good Luck and enjoy your car. Winter isn't the best part of the ownership experience but, with care, I've found its no problem.
Roll on Spring, though!
Can't remember the last time I was able to floor the Griff in anything other than 5th without spinning the wheels. Roads always seem to be slippery as hell this time of year and it's not nice! It's only bad when it's not expected, such as recently on a packed A23 at 8am going from middle lane to right lane. Spot a gap, indicate, gently put foot down in 4th at about 60mph. Back end tries to overtake my left shoulder! 
>> Edited by Painey on Wednesday 8th December 10:46
>> Edited by Painey on Wednesday 8th December 10:46
Don said:
[quote=srebbe64]
This is my first winter with the Griff and I've already applied to go on an advanced driving course!
Good man. Whereabouts in Hants are you? I'm an Observer with the Basingstoke IAM Group. Who are you doing the course with?
Oh - and seriously - your Griff will spin the rears with almost no provocation. It will do it in 1st, 2nd, 3rd...whatever. Never apply any significant accelerator until in a straight line and, as you've found out, even then feather the throttle and be ready to lift to restore grip if the back end squirms.
Eh? One presumes you mean if in a straight line? You lift when you are oversteering and its goodnigth Vienna!
Oh...and watch out changing down. If you do it under braking you can (surprisingly easily with a TVR V8) break traction on the rear wheels - best (on road) is to avoid changing down and braking at all (IAM System),
Did you really mean to say that? Avoid changing down and braking???
Changing down is fine, just dbl de clutch down thru the gears with even braking applied. Standard old school sports car technique.
next - if you can Heel and Toe you can do that, if you can't do either - avoid changing down in anything other than a straight line (which is best anyway).
DJC said:
Eh? One presumes you mean if in a straight line? You lift when you are oversteering and its goodnigth Vienna!
Indeed. Actually if oversteering you should indeed lift. But GENTLY. If you just let off the accelerator it will be exactly as you say and a pleasant trip straight into the hedge.
If you are oversteering one should apply opposite lock and gently reduce gas until the car comes back on-line...removing the opposite lock swiftly to avoid a tank slapper...etc etc
DJC said:
Did you really mean to say that? Avoid changing down and braking???
Yes I did. Standard Roadcraft/IAM/RoADA technique. It avoids the need for Heel and Toe which on some pedal layouts is impossible and even on good layouts some people find it difficult to get their right foot to do two things at once. Instead you
* brake in as straight a line as possible until you are at the proper speed for whatever hazard you are going to steer around.
* off the brake, depress clutch, depress accelerator to raise engine revs to proper rate for current road speed whilst clutch depressed
* select new lower gear, raise clutch
Sounds clunky to someone used to doing something else but let me assure you that its not. One of the things I do when demo driving is ask people if my drive seems forced or unnatural - they always say "no".
Using Heel and Toe the technique is the same as the above but using the right foot to simultaeneously apply braking. So the sequence would be:
* apply brakes with extreme left edge of right foot
* keep brake pedal depressed firmly whilst declutching and selecting new lower gear
* whilst clutch is depressed twist right foot so that the right hand side of the right foot depresses the accelerator whilst the left side maintains braking
* thereby raise revs to match road speed
* with new lower gear selected raise clutch
* finally off the brakes and steer through hazard
You should never need to double de-clutch in a modern car with synchromesh - although it can be added to both sequences described above.
srebbe64 said:
Yesterday my heart missed a beat. A wheelspin in 3rd gear, in a straight line, without pushing. Although the weather was dry, there was 'feel' of moisture in the air so I was taking it gently (or so I thought).
I've come to the conclusion that driver aids (ABS, TC, etc..) are a good thing! However, jumping from a new BMW into a TVR requires a 'step-change' in concentration and respesct for the road.
Be careful out there guys - apart from 'self preservation', there are innocent people in other cars.
Sorry if I sound patronising, but I was given a 'yellow card' and I don't want anyone to receive a 'red card' (if you follow my thinking).
excellent post. Drove the chimaera to work today for one last run before hols tomorrow. Will take extra care on the way home tonight.
Regards,
N
This is my first winter in the Tam. I posted this a few weeks ago but think I should repeat it here in the light of the recent TVR deaths that have been reported in the news. These cars are fantastic but THEY CAN BITE!!!
"...driving on a perfectly straight road, nice and wide, no other cars around (rare in London). I was cruising in third gear at about 3000rpm and decided to change down to second and give it some welly - not silly acceleration but the kind that puts a knowing smile on your face. Well, basically I don't know what happened next, I lost the rear of the car - which I managed to control after a few swerves and skids, straggling the centre of the road (I was lucky - no cars in opposide direction, no damage, all safe apart from my smile having rapidly disappeared). I know it was raining, but it was a straight road and the acceleration was not all that severe - does this sound familiar to anyone or is it me? Has anyone else had a similar "brown pants" moment on a straight road? I hadn't realised the Tam could be so sensitive in the wet when it is soooo fantastic on dry roads!"
KK
"...driving on a perfectly straight road, nice and wide, no other cars around (rare in London). I was cruising in third gear at about 3000rpm and decided to change down to second and give it some welly - not silly acceleration but the kind that puts a knowing smile on your face. Well, basically I don't know what happened next, I lost the rear of the car - which I managed to control after a few swerves and skids, straggling the centre of the road (I was lucky - no cars in opposide direction, no damage, all safe apart from my smile having rapidly disappeared). I know it was raining, but it was a straight road and the acceleration was not all that severe - does this sound familiar to anyone or is it me? Has anyone else had a similar "brown pants" moment on a straight road? I hadn't realised the Tam could be so sensitive in the wet when it is soooo fantastic on dry roads!"
KK
K.K. said:
This is my first winter in the Tam. I posted this a few weeks ago but think I should repeat it here in the light of the recent TVR deaths that have been reported in the news. These cars are fantastic but THEY CAN BITE!!!
"...driving on a perfectly straight road, nice and wide, no other cars around (rare in London). I was cruising in third gear at about 3000rpm and decided to change down to second and give it some welly - not silly acceleration but the kind that puts a knowing smile on your face. Well, basically I don't know what happened next, I lost the rear of the car - which I managed to control after a few swerves and skids, straggling the centre of the road (I was lucky - no cars in opposide direction, no damage, all safe apart from my smile having rapidly disappeared). I know it was raining, but it was a straight road and the acceleration was not all that severe - does this sound familiar to anyone or is it me? Has anyone else had a similar "brown pants" moment on a straight road? I hadn't realised the Tam could be so sensitive in the wet when it is soooo fantastic on dry roads!"
KK
Yep - posted the same thing about 2 weeks ago. Gently changed from 3rd to 2nd on dry road/warm 95% tyres at around 25mph and the back-end stepped out. Nothing severe, just not prescribed by me - so a shocker!
Not much fun, but I've just crept around whilst the garage sorted a few things with the 4x4 Sierra ABS TC Cosworth w/Winter tyres and the Tuscan is now hybernating the winter. Especially since I've read similar stories here, some terribly sad......
Wide/low profile summer tyres with almost 400BHP and RWD with no ABS/TC is....well.......something that will have to wait until the birds come back north!
If you're staying on these roads in Tivs - maybe you should invest in a set of winter tyres. The difference is the tread and grip is enormous. I can climb hills covered in snow with my Cosworth and snow tyres (not enough grip with regular summer tyres). I think I've even read here of owners who've paid to have switchable ABS/TC installed.
All the best - Avalanche
K.K. said:
This is my first winter in the Tam. I posted this a few weeks ago but think I should repeat it here in the light of the recent TVR deaths that have been reported in the news. These cars are fantastic but THEY CAN BITE!!!
"...driving on a perfectly straight road, nice and wide, no other cars around (rare in London). I was cruising in third gear at about 3000rpm and decided to change down to second and give it some welly - not silly acceleration but the kind that puts a knowing smile on your face. Well, basically I don't know what happened next, I lost the rear of the car - which I managed to control after a few swerves and skids, straggling the centre of the road (I was lucky - no cars in opposide direction, no damage, all safe apart from my smile having rapidly disappeared). I know it was raining, but it was a straight road and the acceleration was not all that severe - does this sound familiar to anyone or is it me? Has anyone else had a similar "brown pants" moment on a straight road? I hadn't realised the Tam could be so sensitive in the wet when it is soooo fantastic on dry roads!"
KK
Seems to me that there is no better driving experience than giving the Tiv some welly on a warm, dry summer's day. Lovely sound, sticks to the road like glue and is guaranteed to put a smile on your face. However, in the wither you can reverse all of the above!
Don said:
This is my first winter with the Griff and I've already applied to go on an advanced driving course!
Good man. Whereabouts in Hants are you? I'm an Observer with the Basingstoke IAM Group. Who are you doing the course with?
Oh - and seriously - your Griff will spin the rears with almost no provocation. It will do it in 1st, 2nd, 3rd...whatever. Never apply any significant accelerator until in a straight line and, as you've found out, even then feather the throttle and be ready to lift to restore grip if the back end squirms.
Oh...and watch out changing down. If you do it under braking you can (surprisingly easily with a TVR V8) break traction on the rear wheels - best (on road) is to avoid changing down and braking at all (IAM System), next - if you can Heel and Toe you can do that, if you can't do either - avoid changing down in anything other than a straight line (which is best anyway).
Good Luck and enjoy your car. Winter isn't the best part of the ownership experience but, with care, I've found its no problem.
Roll on Spring, though!
Okay I exaggerate. I haven't applied, but I've had all the forms sent to me after I read about Sunday morning lessons at Richard Aldworth School in Basingstoke. I sent some lady (forgot her name) an email, but haven't quite got round to filling in the forms yet - will do now though.
It's only 3 or 4 miles from where I live and it was only about £80 quid. Seemed to good to be true. Is this the same place that you teach?
Most of the problems are caused by not heeling and toeing to match the engine revs when changing down.
Yes you can get into the habit of breaking first and then changing gear while blipping the throttle but when people get excited they tend to hurry this and screw it up which is why H&T as a matter of course is a good idea. BTW 70% of my foot is on the brake and the outside edge rolls onto the throttle so I can maintain the braking and brake harder if necessary. But that is another story...
Second problem is not feeding in the power and stomping on the gas pedal. Especially when not straight or on slippery conditions. Driving Tivs is all about being very smooth and balanced.
Yes you can get into the habit of breaking first and then changing gear while blipping the throttle but when people get excited they tend to hurry this and screw it up which is why H&T as a matter of course is a good idea. BTW 70% of my foot is on the brake and the outside edge rolls onto the throttle so I can maintain the braking and brake harder if necessary. But that is another story...
Second problem is not feeding in the power and stomping on the gas pedal. Especially when not straight or on slippery conditions. Driving Tivs is all about being very smooth and balanced.
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