Are TVRs Getting Slower?
Discussion
To expand on the subject of the thread slightly, my question is, are TVRs getting slower in terms of outright acceleration relative to their competitors?
I ask because when the Cerbera came out in the mid-nineties it was much faster than pretty much everything bar an XJ220 - 911 Turbos, Ferraris, etc. included. The same goes for the Chimaera and Griffith - you need a supercar to beat them.
Now, when I was out in my old Chimaera (400) I had to worry about Boxster Ss, Impreza Turbos, Evos, Merc AMGs, BMW M3s/M5s and slightly modified Cosworths and Sunny GTiRs, etc. All of these cars were almost as quick or quicker than the Chimaera in a straight line, let alone on the corners.
I look at the Tuscan S now, and I'm not sure it's as fast for its time as the Cerbera was when it was released. The same goes for the Sagaris. I think a comparable car would have to be doing 0-100mph in less than eight seconds these days and no TVR but the (yet to be released) Typhon will do that as far as I know.
The result of all this is that I've seriously started considering an Ultima for my next weekend car - I think one of those will give me the devasting straight-line adrenaline rush I'm after and leave the new Ferrari, Porsche Turbos, Evos, etc. quaking in their boots at the lights. I guess I just don't think standard TVRs do that to the same extent they used to.
So, all this is just musing, if someone can prove me wrong I'm happy to hear it.
I ask because when the Cerbera came out in the mid-nineties it was much faster than pretty much everything bar an XJ220 - 911 Turbos, Ferraris, etc. included. The same goes for the Chimaera and Griffith - you need a supercar to beat them.
Now, when I was out in my old Chimaera (400) I had to worry about Boxster Ss, Impreza Turbos, Evos, Merc AMGs, BMW M3s/M5s and slightly modified Cosworths and Sunny GTiRs, etc. All of these cars were almost as quick or quicker than the Chimaera in a straight line, let alone on the corners.
I look at the Tuscan S now, and I'm not sure it's as fast for its time as the Cerbera was when it was released. The same goes for the Sagaris. I think a comparable car would have to be doing 0-100mph in less than eight seconds these days and no TVR but the (yet to be released) Typhon will do that as far as I know.
The result of all this is that I've seriously started considering an Ultima for my next weekend car - I think one of those will give me the devasting straight-line adrenaline rush I'm after and leave the new Ferrari, Porsche Turbos, Evos, etc. quaking in their boots at the lights. I guess I just don't think standard TVRs do that to the same extent they used to.
So, all this is just musing, if someone can prove me wrong I'm happy to hear it.
I think you actually have a point. When TVR were making Wedges, Ss and so on - they were one of the very few actually making convertible (or otherwise) sports cars. The heyday of MG and so on was over...
I think partly because TVR demonstrated that there was a market for convertible cars we have seen more mainstream manufacturers increasingly including them in their range.
In the same way partly because TVR (and other small manufacturers) demonstrated that there was a market for cars with real performance more mainstream manufacturers have started making seriously quick sports cars.
I cite as examples the BMW M Roadster, the Mercedes SLK (AMG'd) and their like.
After that we now seem to have hit another phenomenon - the German BHP Wars. The Germans seem hell-bent on having the car with the biggest headline bhp and acceleration figures.
In short - TVR (and their equals) showed performance and sports cars had a market - the big players now want their slice of that. For TVR to keep being able to up the ante in the face of competition from companies with tens of times their development budget...can't go on forever.
But still - the SaggyArse has 400bhp - your Chim 400 had 240. They're still pushing - and more power to them!
I think partly because TVR demonstrated that there was a market for convertible cars we have seen more mainstream manufacturers increasingly including them in their range.
In the same way partly because TVR (and other small manufacturers) demonstrated that there was a market for cars with real performance more mainstream manufacturers have started making seriously quick sports cars.
I cite as examples the BMW M Roadster, the Mercedes SLK (AMG'd) and their like.
After that we now seem to have hit another phenomenon - the German BHP Wars. The Germans seem hell-bent on having the car with the biggest headline bhp and acceleration figures.
In short - TVR (and their equals) showed performance and sports cars had a market - the big players now want their slice of that. For TVR to keep being able to up the ante in the face of competition from companies with tens of times their development budget...can't go on forever.
But still - the SaggyArse has 400bhp - your Chim 400 had 240. They're still pushing - and more power to them!
mungo said:
siwes said:
it managed 0-60 in 4.7 secs
You have to look past 0-60 times - It's no longer a good indication of car performance anymore - in gear times are
True, additionally, rwd cars cant compete so well in different weather conditions with many 4wd cars around now.
>> Edited by chrisbr68 on Sunday 23 January 19:17
TVR's arn't getting slower, that's for sure, and it's still true that, pound for pound, you cannot buy a lot faster for the money, even the T350 drag racing 3 other cars costing twice as much, and won, on Top Gear prooved this.
I think that manufacturers have put too much faith in pure BHP, as a gimmick to sell their cars, trouble is, they have so many electronic aids that, most of the time in most circumstances, the BHP is not allowed to be unleashed, whereas the 'oldschool' TVR way of doing things is 'let the driver decide'! With that in mind, TVR's are still brutally fast compared to it's peers costing twice as much, they are pure drivers cars, and not technology showcase cars, which weigh a lot more also!
I think that manufacturers have put too much faith in pure BHP, as a gimmick to sell their cars, trouble is, they have so many electronic aids that, most of the time in most circumstances, the BHP is not allowed to be unleashed, whereas the 'oldschool' TVR way of doing things is 'let the driver decide'! With that in mind, TVR's are still brutally fast compared to it's peers costing twice as much, they are pure drivers cars, and not technology showcase cars, which weigh a lot more also!
chris watton said:
TVR's arn't getting slower, that's for sure, and it's still true that, pound for pound, you cannot buy a lot faster for the money!
They're not getting slower. But are they getting quicker at the same rate as the mass market manufacturers?
They still are amazing BHP-per-tonne-per-pound, though. But don't expect the Germans to rest on their laurels...
To expand on Chris's comment, I think outright speed is getting a little outmoded as a concept in this day and age of Gatsos and increased traffic. Personally I flattened a 996 Turbo that wanted an argument the other day, and then five minutes later realised I couldn't keep up with Merc C220 estate on my back road home. 
I think there's more comfort to be had in a little smug ego polishing by TVR drivers - no longer that our cars will out pace practically anything on the road, but that we can actually DRIVE. Not the Highway Code mirror/signal/prod the car in a random direction, but that we can tame a lightweight, powerful beast without the aid of complex nannying electronics.
Last night I took the wife to the cinema in her car. On the way there we had a puncture and I was mightily impressed that the car didn't spit us off the road....
....However I was less than impressed that it took me ten minutes to realise the tyre was flapping around the rim - excessive tyre noise mixed with a numbing lack of feedback from steering/chassis/gearbox etc etc. Wonderful car for the wifey then, bless her, but me? I want a car I can take by the scruff of the neck and tame - and that makes me feel more proud than any 0-60 time ever could.
Just my 10%.
I think there's more comfort to be had in a little smug ego polishing by TVR drivers - no longer that our cars will out pace practically anything on the road, but that we can actually DRIVE. Not the Highway Code mirror/signal/prod the car in a random direction, but that we can tame a lightweight, powerful beast without the aid of complex nannying electronics.
Last night I took the wife to the cinema in her car. On the way there we had a puncture and I was mightily impressed that the car didn't spit us off the road....
....However I was less than impressed that it took me ten minutes to realise the tyre was flapping around the rim - excessive tyre noise mixed with a numbing lack of feedback from steering/chassis/gearbox etc etc. Wonderful car for the wifey then, bless her, but me? I want a car I can take by the scruff of the neck and tame - and that makes me feel more proud than any 0-60 time ever could.
Just my 10%.
I think it's simply that there are more cars capable of similar performance than there were. The Enzo isn't really much quicker in a straight line than the F40. The big advances seem to have happened in braking and handling (tyre technology, downforce etc) I suppose it's the same in F1. The cars are no more powerful, but lap quicker.
Look at that Top Gear slot which had an EVO keep up with that Lambo!
I think the point with our cars is that we dont just buy them for straight line grunt, we buy into the whole package, driving a TVR is an experience, from the sound, the way it drives to the looks, you look at it and you think 'WOW!!' The sensations you get from driving them, any of them, is sheer undiluted pleasure, that is the point of these cars and similar marques, 0-60 times, let the kids argue over them, I'm not that interested
I think the point with our cars is that we dont just buy them for straight line grunt, we buy into the whole package, driving a TVR is an experience, from the sound, the way it drives to the looks, you look at it and you think 'WOW!!' The sensations you get from driving them, any of them, is sheer undiluted pleasure, that is the point of these cars and similar marques, 0-60 times, let the kids argue over them, I'm not that interested
- take the new MKII Tuscan S, and floor it... tell me thats not quickchris watton said:
Look at that Top Gear slot which had an EVO keep up with that Lambo!
Wtf? Did ppl suddenly wake up this morning and decide that motoring was invented in 1991 or something?
Why is a rally bred special keeping up with a supercar so suprising?
Here is 2 far more interesting questions for you...
What was the fastest road vehicle available throughout the 80's to get from Pt A to Pt B ?
Would the Evo have been able to lose it round the track on the TG show?
Answers on a postcard c/o Henri Toivonen, Corsica, thankyou.
Gazboy said:
TVR's arn't getting slower, that's for sure, and it's still true that, pound for pound, you cannot buy a lot faster for the money, even the T350 drag racing 3 other cars costing twice as much, and won, on Top Gear prooved this.
I think that manufacturers have put too much faith in pure BHP, as a gimmick to sell their cars, trouble is, they have so many electronic aids that, most of the time in most circumstances, the BHP is not allowed to be unleashed, whereas the 'oldschool' TVR way of doing things is 'let the driver decide'! With that in mind, TVR's are still brutally fast compared to it's peers costing twice as much, they are pure drivers cars, and not technology showcase cars, which weigh a lot more also!
Wasn't it a C6 Vette, a C4 911 and an NSX?
The Vette is £43,000, so hardly twice the price- and you can always switch the TCS off. The C6 weighs alot more than the T350 because it is a much bigger car.
evo has an article this month comparing the Tuscan S, the C6 and the MG SV thingy. It also pitches the C6 against the 997.
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff