Big Brakes......do we need them??
Discussion
Hiya folks ('99 chimaera owner), has anyone got experience of the pro's and con's of a brake up - grade?
I'm guessing that most of tend to 'over' up - grade are cars, but I was wondering if maybe the smaller (lighter) brakes we have could be argued as a 'better' option for most of us.....given a mild disc and pad up grade of course!
I'm guessing that most of tend to 'over' up - grade are cars, but I was wondering if maybe the smaller (lighter) brakes we have could be argued as a 'better' option for most of us.....given a mild disc and pad up grade of course!
Let's ignore aesthetics, concentrate on brake efficiency.
The answer is, it depends on what you are doing with the car.
Sunday country runs, car shows etc - standard brakes are fine, and match the tyres, so you shouldn't lock the wheels too often.
Spirited driving on public roads - you could upgrade the pads to something better. Perhaps the front disks to grooved.
Track driving - as far as you want to go. I have, for example, upgraded the front disks to 324mm grooved ventilated disks, callipers to 4 pot, pads to Hawk racing, fluid to racing. My rears I have left at 273mm, but gone for grooved ventilated disks and Ferodo DS2500 pads. Consequence is I need to use 17 inch wheels. So upgrading is not a cheap proposition
The answer is, it depends on what you are doing with the car.
Sunday country runs, car shows etc - standard brakes are fine, and match the tyres, so you shouldn't lock the wheels too often.
Spirited driving on public roads - you could upgrade the pads to something better. Perhaps the front disks to grooved.
Track driving - as far as you want to go. I have, for example, upgraded the front disks to 324mm grooved ventilated disks, callipers to 4 pot, pads to Hawk racing, fluid to racing. My rears I have left at 273mm, but gone for grooved ventilated disks and Ferodo DS2500 pads. Consequence is I need to use 17 inch wheels. So upgrading is not a cheap proposition
You can achieve a fair amount with some decent pads when your present ones wear out. Not expensive, and will give the brakes more bite and less fade. Ferodo DS2500 or 3000, Mintex 1144, Carbon Lorraine all come to mind.
Disks are also a maintenance item, and some decent ventilated, grooved (not drilled) disks with those pads will make quite a difference. When I first installed my big front brakes, I used the plain ventilated disks that my friend sold me. When they wore out my TVR guy recommended Black Diamond grooved disks. The difference is very noticeable.
A set of racing pads and a pair of grooved ventilated disks for the front, as described above and in standard size, will make a considerable difference for not a lot of money - if your present ones are fairly worn then you are only looking at the cost being the price difference between better and standard.
Disks are also a maintenance item, and some decent ventilated, grooved (not drilled) disks with those pads will make quite a difference. When I first installed my big front brakes, I used the plain ventilated disks that my friend sold me. When they wore out my TVR guy recommended Black Diamond grooved disks. The difference is very noticeable.
A set of racing pads and a pair of grooved ventilated disks for the front, as described above and in standard size, will make a considerable difference for not a lot of money - if your present ones are fairly worn then you are only looking at the cost being the price difference between better and standard.
I've got grooved disks with ebc pads on my wedge. Better than before. More bite on the initial press which I like. I still almost send myself through the windscreen in my skoda after driving the TVR. DAMN YOU over servo'd vw group brakes.
If it's not fitted already, braided hoses will make a difference to pedal feel.
If it helps, my grooved brakes are just about standard sized and work pretty good.
If it's not fitted already, braided hoses will make a difference to pedal feel.
If it helps, my grooved brakes are just about standard sized and work pretty good.
Edited by MethylatedSpirit on Friday 18th September 01:07
For a roadgoing TVR I prefer light brakes to big brakes. Successful upgrading/modifying is best on based on a SWOT analysis of your starting point 
and countless road test reports would indicate that while stopping the car is not a particular concern (it weighs about as much as two fag packets anyway), keeping all wheels firmly on the ground on bumpy country roads is - so why people would want to bolt several kgs of unsprung weight to their front hubs for extra heat sink capacity that they won't ever get to use is beyond me.
Thus, the advice above is correct - start with a proper pad compound, top off with good, grooved discs (I prefer Tarox myself) and good fluid. Above and beyond that, light alloy four- or six pot calipers are good but don't overdo it on the disc size and good quality (AP or similar) two piece discs are preferred for their weight advantages alone. You're unlikely to need or take advantage of anything that won't fit behind your standard 15" front wheels unless you're building a BIG power, semi slick shod trackday monster.
and countless road test reports would indicate that while stopping the car is not a particular concern (it weighs about as much as two fag packets anyway), keeping all wheels firmly on the ground on bumpy country roads is - so why people would want to bolt several kgs of unsprung weight to their front hubs for extra heat sink capacity that they won't ever get to use is beyond me.Thus, the advice above is correct - start with a proper pad compound, top off with good, grooved discs (I prefer Tarox myself) and good fluid. Above and beyond that, light alloy four- or six pot calipers are good but don't overdo it on the disc size and good quality (AP or similar) two piece discs are preferred for their weight advantages alone. You're unlikely to need or take advantage of anything that won't fit behind your standard 15" front wheels unless you're building a BIG power, semi slick shod trackday monster.
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 18th September 09:34
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 18th September 09:34
I changed mine a long time ago for larger front disks and willwood superlight 4 pot calipers.. so managed to go up in size and power and down in weight !!!
the difference is quite marked. the fine control over the braking is much better, more modulation you can feel the braking much better and adjust it. it also seems to balance the car much better and allow the rear to work better.
they also manage the heat build up better. I'd definitely do it again,mine is a 96 car with the larger later standard brake setup to begin with, so what the early setup is like i hate to think..
the difference is quite marked. the fine control over the braking is much better, more modulation you can feel the braking much better and adjust it. it also seems to balance the car much better and allow the rear to work better.
they also manage the heat build up better. I'd definitely do it again,mine is a 96 car with the larger later standard brake setup to begin with, so what the early setup is like i hate to think..
IHMO...The original factory fitted TVR brakes are not exactly compromised (even the little 240's). Most of the problems people seem to have with brakes stem from them being old and uncared for. Upgrades are not usually needed and often upset the balance etc. I have found just refurbing the existing callipers, removing corrosion from the hubs, new pads, fluids and disks can transform the car back to how it was when it left the factory... Don't seem to remember many reviews of any TVR as having in-adequate brakes...
If you insist on spirited track driving (as we all should) then you may find braided hoses and harder pads help but again I have yet to drive an original car who's brakes worked as they should and suffered a long pedal.
Having said that, I have 330 front disks and DS2500's on the front, and they squeal like little girls...The whole lot has just been sent to Godspeed for a refurb....
Oh, and in answer to the OP, any reduction in unsprung weight is an upgrade...
If you insist on spirited track driving (as we all should) then you may find braided hoses and harder pads help but again I have yet to drive an original car who's brakes worked as they should and suffered a long pedal.
Having said that, I have 330 front disks and DS2500's on the front, and they squeal like little girls...The whole lot has just been sent to Godspeed for a refurb....
Oh, and in answer to the OP, any reduction in unsprung weight is an upgrade...
Edited by leerdam23 on Friday 18th September 11:20
leerdam23 said:
often upset the balance etc.
I found exactly the opposite, Id not long had my original brake system fully overhauled before i changed the front disks and calipers to larger ( not massive and still fit just under stock 15's)so was going from new stock to new upgraded. I found the balance much better and the back of the car more behaved as it was no longer over braked at the rear. The modulation was massively improved, You could where necc easily control braking right up to the apex of a corner try that on the stock setup and you'd be in a hedge :-) musch easier to control the balance of the car
can you go to far, easily but a sensible upgrade can make big improvements
Excellent.
motul1974 said:
Ok....so it sounds like the Holy Grail of brakes would be more modern monobloc calipers, disks on bells and some lovely lightweight 15" wheels.
Looks like the rent ain't getting paid for the next few months!!!!! ;-/ lol
I look forward to seeing you on a track day sometime soon!Looks like the rent ain't getting paid for the next few months!!!!! ;-/ lol
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