TVR's and safety (again)
Discussion
I know the issue has been the subject of much debate, but there's been a few incidences of late that have caused me to have a rethink on my stance.
A few years ago it was perfectly legal to drive without wearing a seatbelt - then it became compulsory (much to the irritation of many people) but many lives were saved. Then it became law to have seatbelts in the rear seats. Nowadays, there aren't many people who object to wearing seatbelts. In fact, many people feel very uncomfortable not wearing one.
As such, I think it should be compulsory for all new cars to be fitted with air-bags. It might add a few quid to the price, but so what.
A few years ago it was perfectly legal to drive without wearing a seatbelt - then it became compulsory (much to the irritation of many people) but many lives were saved. Then it became law to have seatbelts in the rear seats. Nowadays, there aren't many people who object to wearing seatbelts. In fact, many people feel very uncomfortable not wearing one.
As such, I think it should be compulsory for all new cars to be fitted with air-bags. It might add a few quid to the price, but so what.
Nonsense. My TVR has full harness seat belts, what need have I of airbags - a technology originally invented because Americans wouldn't wear their seatbelts?
If we *must* have this intrusive Nanny-State nonsense, at least can we have ABS instead - a technology that even Ayrton Senna said he liked.
If we *must* have this intrusive Nanny-State nonsense, at least can we have ABS instead - a technology that even Ayrton Senna said he liked.
zumbruk said:
at least can we have ABS instead - a technology that even Ayrton Senna said he liked.
And look what happened to him!!
I vote to for the status quo - No ABS, No Airbags, and no electronic trickery.
If that's the bag's your into, then no problem, there are plenty of non-TVRs out there to choose from.
I know exactly what you mean because that's one of the reasons I bought a TVR. But equally, I remember when seatbelts were made compulsory, at the time I felt it was my choice and the Law Makers shouldn't intervene. However, many years on I'm compelled to concede that it was a good Law.
I hear what you're saying - I'd never drive my car without a seatbelt on
However in terms of safety rules and regultions, we generally seem to be going towards a point of no return and my fear is that the choice will no longer be ours to make. Sorry, was that a bit heavy??!!
Now off soapbox
However in terms of safety rules and regultions, we generally seem to be going towards a point of no return and my fear is that the choice will no longer be ours to make. Sorry, was that a bit heavy??!!
Now off soapbox
Air bags are only of use in very low speed
accidents, not the type of accident normally
associated with TVR's.Have a look at normal
everyday cars that are involved in fatal accidents
and the vast majority will have had airbags and
other safety devices as standard.The thought of
TVR making airbags is frankly scary as I have had
windows and even doors open on the move and would
not welcome an airbag in the mush when driving
over a small bump in the road
Lets be honest
electrics are not a TVR strong point.
Col
accidents, not the type of accident normally
associated with TVR's.Have a look at normal
everyday cars that are involved in fatal accidents
and the vast majority will have had airbags and
other safety devices as standard.The thought of
TVR making airbags is frankly scary as I have had
windows and even doors open on the move and would
not welcome an airbag in the mush when driving
over a small bump in the road
Lets be honest electrics are not a TVR strong point.
Col
as i know, even if they have roll cage and seat belt, race cars don't have any airbag and they crash at higher speed level than any TVR or others cars...
Like it has been said, airbag is usefull at low speed and with the seat belt. That's just to protect our little nose for a little crash! that's all!
Like it has been said, airbag is usefull at low speed and with the seat belt. That's just to protect our little nose for a little crash! that's all!
Gazboy said:
What sort of roll-over protection does a Tamora have?
Might be worth asking Nubbin, he rolled his first Tamora and walked away virtually without a scratch!, so safety is quite good I'd say, and lets face it, most cars crashing at high speed would all have the same outcome for the occupants; although ABS and t/c should certainly be an option for possible future cars.
flyingjase said:
at least can we have ABS instead - a technology that even Ayrton Senna said he liked.
And look what happened to him!!
Are you saying that Senna died because of ABS? I'd love to hear your arguement on this one
>> Edited by angusfaldo on Saturday 9th April 18:40
This is possibly true for the Tamora, but not for the Chimaera, Griff, S or Wedge.
We can all see why aditional safety devices might be a good thing to have, but the bottom line is that training is the real thing that works. Given stupid or untrained people an extra safety margin simply gives them more space and time to act stupidly in. No safety devices on the planet will stop you crashing if you try to take a hairpin bend at 100mph.
All in all, safety devices might be a nice option but they are useless if you don't know what they are doing, why they are doing it and what you did to activate them in the first place.
>> Edited by V8 Archie on Monday 11th April 10:35
EVO - May edition said:
...it might surprise you to learn that during the Type Approval crash tests for the Tuscan... many of the occupant injury criteria were 'significantly below the permitted limits' without recourse to airbags.
We can all see why aditional safety devices might be a good thing to have, but the bottom line is that training is the real thing that works. Given stupid or untrained people an extra safety margin simply gives them more space and time to act stupidly in. No safety devices on the planet will stop you crashing if you try to take a hairpin bend at 100mph.
All in all, safety devices might be a nice option but they are useless if you don't know what they are doing, why they are doing it and what you did to activate them in the first place.
>> Edited by V8 Archie on Monday 11th April 10:35
since this is a TVR thread, it's probably not my place to comment. But being belligerant, I'll chuck my two pennarth.
I've no problem with airbags being enshrined in law, so long as the saftey of the operation of the airbag is also enshrined in law.
It's probably worth bearing in mind that for a company like TVR, it may well be an unwelcome hurdle to the manufacture of a roadworthy vehicle.
Whatever the line, an airbag is an active safety device unlike a seatbelt. If it deploys in a poor way, or at the wrong time, it could be more lethal than not having one.
I've no problem with airbags being enshrined in law, so long as the saftey of the operation of the airbag is also enshrined in law.
It's probably worth bearing in mind that for a company like TVR, it may well be an unwelcome hurdle to the manufacture of a roadworthy vehicle.
Whatever the line, an airbag is an active safety device unlike a seatbelt. If it deploys in a poor way, or at the wrong time, it could be more lethal than not having one.
Switchable ABS and traction and even stability would be nice. Shouldn't cost much as even the cheapest cars now have these.
An aftermarket mod for the Griff and Chim to give them some side impact protection would be nice.
From accounts on here the Cerbera seems mighty strong in a crash. Also from accounts on here it seems to be very easy to crash.
An aftermarket mod for the Griff and Chim to give them some side impact protection would be nice.
From accounts on here the Cerbera seems mighty strong in a crash. Also from accounts on here it seems to be very easy to crash.
I am unhappy with the premise of traction control.
Drivers will push the limits, that's what sportscars are for, but traction control raises the limit to a level where you can press the accelerator regardless of whether or not it is sensible to do so. When the tc can't cope - and it has real limits - there is little hope of a driver being able to and the resulting accident will be tremendous.
Whilst tc is an excellent safety device for the occasional misjudgement, once you've got it you will use it all the time. I know I would.
I'd much rather have the back wheels spin at a speed and time of my choosing, when I might, just might, be able to catch it.
These driver-aids are emasculating sportscars. They should reward good driving. I was once allowed to drive a Morris Minor with a 1622 MGA engine fitted. It was fabulous, mainly because it was much too powerful for the chassis and brakes. It could not, of course, be manufactured nowadays as it would be too much fun.
If rugby had just been invented it would be banned and anyone who sought to introduce it into schools would be classed a some form or paedophile. Come on lads, butch up. Trust your skills.
Derek
Drivers will push the limits, that's what sportscars are for, but traction control raises the limit to a level where you can press the accelerator regardless of whether or not it is sensible to do so. When the tc can't cope - and it has real limits - there is little hope of a driver being able to and the resulting accident will be tremendous.
Whilst tc is an excellent safety device for the occasional misjudgement, once you've got it you will use it all the time. I know I would.
I'd much rather have the back wheels spin at a speed and time of my choosing, when I might, just might, be able to catch it.
These driver-aids are emasculating sportscars. They should reward good driving. I was once allowed to drive a Morris Minor with a 1622 MGA engine fitted. It was fabulous, mainly because it was much too powerful for the chassis and brakes. It could not, of course, be manufactured nowadays as it would be too much fun.
If rugby had just been invented it would be banned and anyone who sought to introduce it into schools would be classed a some form or paedophile. Come on lads, butch up. Trust your skills.
Derek
As stated in an earlier post, airbags were only ever introduced because Americans kept trashing themselves, and they won't pass or enforce a seatbelt law.
To cover themselves the manufacturers resorted to airbags, to reduce injuries to those who are not wearing seatbelts.
If you are wearing a seatbelt, an airbag makes very little difference, its the seatbelt which protects you.
(Speaking from experience of an 80mph head on, no airbags
)
To cover themselves the manufacturers resorted to airbags, to reduce injuries to those who are not wearing seatbelts.
If you are wearing a seatbelt, an airbag makes very little difference, its the seatbelt which protects you.
(Speaking from experience of an 80mph head on, no airbags
)Airbags area also calibrated for the 5th -95th sizes of the population if your're outside that ( as I am) the airbag is not only ineffectual but will quite possibly cause you harm. As facial burns, popped eardrums etc are not uncommon in the US when the airbags go off.
They're a sop to keeping the american litigators off the manufactureres backs. Wear a belt and make sure its adjusted correctly, goes under your coat etc. I'd turn my mondeo airbag off if I could
Matt
They're a sop to keeping the american litigators off the manufactureres backs. Wear a belt and make sure its adjusted correctly, goes under your coat etc. I'd turn my mondeo airbag off if I could
Matt
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