brake upgrades
Discussion
quote:
what brake upgrades has anyone done on a chimeara and what is best.Is their a big performance differance between standard size disks and 280's???
TVR have used different brake systems over the years. What model have you got, and what brakes does it have at the moment? Also what is the car used for, and do you have any particular problems you want to address?
Going from 240mm or 250mm (the two standard sizes I've seen) up to 280 will increase the heat dissipation significantly (very roughly a 50% increase in cooling area), it will also move the brake balance forward slightly (roughly 20% increase in leverage). I found this was enough to be very noticeable. The V8S started out with the same brakes used on early 4.0 Chimaeras (240mm vented front, 250 mm solid rear). As standard, the brake bias was slightly too far back - increasing the front leverage corrected this. Any further would have put the bias too far the other way though. This rear bias problem sees to be common to many TVR and you may have a similar setup. In which case you would probably find that going to 280mm front improves the balance as well as increasing the life of the brakes on the track. Be very cautious about going further than this though, unless you upgrade the rears too or do something else to restore the brake balance.
280mm fits easily within the standard 15" front wheels. You can actually go up to 300mm if you're careful, although you'll need to be extremely careful about the clearances if you go that far. If you're looking at upgrades around 300mm you probably want to add decent 4-pot calipers, and I'd recommend upgrading the rears too. This could be overkill though, 280mm makes a big difference and should be more than enough for most people unless you have a 500 and drive it hard on the track.
Most TVR specialists and dealers will have their own recommended upgrade packages, and will probably supply the parts or fit them for you. Make sure they know what they're doing though, there are quite a few ways to get this wrong and you don't want to be the guinea pig while they learn how to do it. If you want a recommendation, Tower View did an excellent job on the V8S and really seem to know their stuff.
Hope this helps,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
PS there was an article in Sprint recently which went into the issues in slightly more detail.
I'm running the Tower View 283 upgrade kit (I helped develop it with them as my standard Griff 500 brakes were fine but would often fade on a track). It is a major leap forward for not much money. There is no clearance problem which can be an issue with the 300mm upgrades and these also need special callipers to fit them inside the wheel arch.
I've done several track days and several thousand miles and once beeded in they are almost as good as my Cerbera brakes with a good progressive feel and no fading.
If you have the 240mm front disc, then swapping to a bigger 260 Ford calliper is another improvement option as well.
I am also running the standard rear brakes (273) but with a grooved and cross drilled disc with Ferodo 3466/DS2000 pads. Don't use EBCs as they are not very good in my experience although they are a pretty green.... If you have the smaller rear brake option then upgrades are limited and very expensive as they usually require a change of upright.
The performance is excellent with no balance problems. If you want to spend a bit more than a four pot calliper for the front is another step forward, I have Wilwoods (last year's 520 brakes) on the car. Really pleased with the setup.
Details are on www.t-v-r-services.co.uk
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
I've done several track days and several thousand miles and once beeded in they are almost as good as my Cerbera brakes with a good progressive feel and no fading.
If you have the 240mm front disc, then swapping to a bigger 260 Ford calliper is another improvement option as well.
I am also running the standard rear brakes (273) but with a grooved and cross drilled disc with Ferodo 3466/DS2000 pads. Don't use EBCs as they are not very good in my experience although they are a pretty green.... If you have the smaller rear brake option then upgrades are limited and very expensive as they usually require a change of upright.
The performance is excellent with no balance problems. If you want to spend a bit more than a four pot calliper for the front is another step forward, I have Wilwoods (last year's 520 brakes) on the car. Really pleased with the setup.
Details are on www.t-v-r-services.co.uk
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Just had 280mm disks and billet 4 pot calipers on my Chimarea 500. Only 150 miles on them yet, so maybe a bit early to tell, but they do seem to work rather well - but then so did the standard setup!
I don't really expect to notice the difference on the road (although the car does feel slightly better balanced on the brakes, but that may be because I want to feel a difference). The brakes are more progressive for sure - at first I thought they were actually less effective, but a harder shove on the pedal quickly dispelled that thought.
Track days is where the difference will make itself felt. Smoking disks should be a less frequent occurrence with the larger cooling surface.
Bonus is that they fill the standard 15" wheels very well indeed. Much better than the Golf I saw yesterday with 20" rims and standard discs still fitted. Think disc brakes on a pushbike and you get the sort of effect!
I don't really expect to notice the difference on the road (although the car does feel slightly better balanced on the brakes, but that may be because I want to feel a difference). The brakes are more progressive for sure - at first I thought they were actually less effective, but a harder shove on the pedal quickly dispelled that thought.
Track days is where the difference will make itself felt. Smoking disks should be a less frequent occurrence with the larger cooling surface.
Bonus is that they fill the standard 15" wheels very well indeed. Much better than the Golf I saw yesterday with 20" rims and standard discs still fitted. Think disc brakes on a pushbike and you get the sort of effect!
Thanks for all the advice. my car is a chimaera 500 i dont do many track days so i decided to keep the standard size disc but vented and drilled so the balance would not be affectd. i have also brought braided hoses and high performance pads. all going on the weekend at the same time as my straight through exhaust i hope it makes a little difference
Recently fitted the 283mm disc upgrade with mintex 1144 pads (front and rear) along with goodridge hoses and 5.1 fluid and I,m very impressed no fade,better feel,more braking power and best of all the car now feels much more "settled" if I get into a corner to hot and I'm braking off line before it was very "twitchy and nervous" (no excuse for missing my braking marker I know but it sure helps)now its alot more stable.Down sides, only that the mintex pads are very dirty leaving alot more dust on the wheels than my old EBC pads, so overall great value and highly recomended now where did I put that bottle of wonder wheels.
quote:
Recently fitted the 283mm disc upgrade with mintex 1144 pads (front and rear) along with goodridge hoses and 5.1 fluid and I,m very impressed no fade,better feel,more braking power and best of all the car now feels much more "settled" if I get into a corner to hot and I'm braking off line before it was very "twitchy and nervous" (no excuse for missing my braking marker I know but it sure helps)now its alot more stable.Down sides, only that the mintex pads are very dirty leaving alot more dust on the wheels than my old EBC pads, so overall great value and highly recomended now where did I put that bottle of wonder wheels.
I reckon proper bedding in makes more difference than the type of pad. And most people don't bother, hence they don't get on with the pads. For what it's worth, I thought M1144 were OK but did fade rather early and disintegrated when they overheated (didn't try 1155), Tarox XF had better 'bite' under gentle braking but were harder to bed in and created lots of brake dust, Green Stuff needs a firm foot the first couple of times on a cold wet day but keeps going up to much higher temperatures (in fact they seem to grip more the hotter they get, very reassuring on the track) but are extremely hard on the discs compared to all the others. Because they get better when they get hot wheras other types seem to get worse, I wouldn't ever put Green Stuff on the back with a different type on the front, but other than that I have no problem with them. Haven't tried pads from Ferrodo, Pagid etc to compare them, although I understand there are plenty of good compounds available.
quote:Probably been said 100 times already but that was a great article in Sprint.
Hope this helps,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
PS there was an article in Sprint recently which went into the issues in slightly more detail.
I have standard brakes with EBC pads. I find quite a marked difference in performance after they have been used a few times and warmed up. On the road that often means when you apply the brakes after a clear stretch they do not feel that inspiring - try them again and they feel fine. Do Ferodo and Mintex do this as well?
Secondly, when you fit new disks, is it better to fit new pads at the same time?
My Griff has: Front - 283mm drilled & grooved discs, Hi spec billett 4 pots,EBC green. Rear - stnd size drilled & grooved discs,EBC green. braided hoses all round.
They are a huge improvment over standard in terms of braking power & have never faded at all on track days.
Well worth doing.
They are a huge improvment over standard in terms of braking power & have never faded at all on track days.
Well worth doing.
quote:
I have standard brakes with EBC pads. I find quite a marked difference in performance after they have been used a few times and warmed up. On the road that often means when you apply the brakes after a clear stretch they do not feel that inspiring - try them again and they feel fine. Do Ferodo and Mintex do this as well?
Secondly, when you fit new disks, is it better to fit new pads at the same time?
New pads with discs please and bed them in as Pete says. Clean the disc as it comes in a protective film.
As for EBCs... that is just one of the reasons I don't like them. I just had no confidence in what they would do.
Currently using a Ferodo 3466 (DS2000 precursor) and they are excellent with a lot of feel. They need a bit more pressure in that you can push hard on the pedal but that does give you a great feel. NOt too much dust or disc wear either.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:
quote:Probably been said 100 times already but that was a great article in Sprint.
Hope this helps,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
PS there was an article in Sprint recently which went into the issues in slightly more detail.
I have standard brakes with EBC pads. I find quite a marked difference in performance after they have been used a few times and warmed up. On the road that often means when you apply the brakes after a clear stretch they do not feel that inspiring - try them again and they feel fine. Do Ferodo and Mintex do this as well?
Secondly, when you fit new disks, is it better to fit new pads at the same time?
Typically one set of discs will outlast several sets of pads. I generally have one set of pads spare, and get a spare set of discs ready when the ones on start to look marginal - that way if thinks turn out worse than expected when I strip the brakes down, I have all the parts needed.
If I'm going to be in there replacing the pads I'll look at the state of the discs and if they're looking marginal I'll do them at the same time. If you have to replace the discs while there's still useful life left in the pads, I'd look at the state of the pads that come out. If they're suffering from heat stress, grooved or unevenly worn from a worn disc, or are more than say 50% worn, I'd replace them as a matter of course. But other things being equal, it's OK in principle to keep the pads when you've swapped discs.
quote:
My Griff has: Front - 283mm drilled & grooved discs, Hi spec billett 4 pots,EBC green. Rear - stnd size drilled & grooved discs,EBC green. braided hoses all round.
They are a huge improvment over standard in terms of braking power & have never faded at all on track days.
Well worth doing.
You just need to fit a titanium cap on your brake fluid reservoir now, eh Leadfoot?
Seriously, any braking set up where the fluid gets hot enough to melt the cap on the reservoir without fading gets my vote. They seemed pretty impressive at Folembray.
Pete
eerrr yes Pete. The seal in the cap didn't melt M8, it's just got knackered over time. Been getting worse each track day but I keep on forgeting about it as it's not an issue on the road (not enough lateral G force to cause spillage). It's never been as bad as it was at Folembray tho' - must get a5se in gear & buy one.
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