Water Injection + ACT induction pipes
Discussion
see also previous threads on ACT pipes and 'misting'.
Have now completed installation and initial tests on my 4L Chimaera. The engine has done about 50K miles and is otherwise in 'standard' tune. It is a very clean and sweet engine and pulls to over 6000 + rpm in all gears.
The ACT pipes came first followed by the WI
The ACT pipes and K&N filter have been covered by others. I can confirm better breathing and flexibility. The real noticeable difference is that the engine comes on cam and sings under hard acceleration - before it was just felt like a long steady power delivery.
The WI installation is fairly simple but instructions somewhat lacking for normally aspirated engines. However some tinkering around I eventually got it all together.
In the boot is a 5litre tank with 30% methanol/water mixture together with a 100psi demand pump. This delivers via small bore nylon tube to the engine bay where a solenoid controls the flow to a misting injector between the air mass meter and the plenum. The solenoid is activated by a simple vacuum switch, via a relay,which detect manifold depression, currently set to deliver at about 4" to 1" of vacuum i.e. under hard acceleration or full throttle operation. I fettled a separate wiring loom direct from the battery connections (and included some connectors for other functions while I was at it - always useful). The system is activated via the ignition swith however I have installed both a master switch and an over-ride to give control and selection.
I have not done any qualitative testing other than this morning's dash to the factory in B'pool for a major service pre Le Mans. However it appears to do what it says on the box. Definite increase in torque and power best likened to having another cog in the box. 5th is now more like 4th, which is more like 3rd, if you get the idea. I would say octane boosting is definitely there (I have some experience with WI on aero engines). Need to do some testing over the summer to understand the true value. The installation is intended to preceed an engine upgrade later this year including higher compression ratio.
When I have some more results/impressions I'll update this post.
First real test will be the Le Mans trip - if you are interested look out for yellow chim x xxx DBV
cheers
jeff
Have now completed installation and initial tests on my 4L Chimaera. The engine has done about 50K miles and is otherwise in 'standard' tune. It is a very clean and sweet engine and pulls to over 6000 + rpm in all gears.
The ACT pipes came first followed by the WI
The ACT pipes and K&N filter have been covered by others. I can confirm better breathing and flexibility. The real noticeable difference is that the engine comes on cam and sings under hard acceleration - before it was just felt like a long steady power delivery.
The WI installation is fairly simple but instructions somewhat lacking for normally aspirated engines. However some tinkering around I eventually got it all together.
In the boot is a 5litre tank with 30% methanol/water mixture together with a 100psi demand pump. This delivers via small bore nylon tube to the engine bay where a solenoid controls the flow to a misting injector between the air mass meter and the plenum. The solenoid is activated by a simple vacuum switch, via a relay,which detect manifold depression, currently set to deliver at about 4" to 1" of vacuum i.e. under hard acceleration or full throttle operation. I fettled a separate wiring loom direct from the battery connections (and included some connectors for other functions while I was at it - always useful). The system is activated via the ignition swith however I have installed both a master switch and an over-ride to give control and selection.
I have not done any qualitative testing other than this morning's dash to the factory in B'pool for a major service pre Le Mans. However it appears to do what it says on the box. Definite increase in torque and power best likened to having another cog in the box. 5th is now more like 4th, which is more like 3rd, if you get the idea. I would say octane boosting is definitely there (I have some experience with WI on aero engines). Need to do some testing over the summer to understand the true value. The installation is intended to preceed an engine upgrade later this year including higher compression ratio.
When I have some more results/impressions I'll update this post.
First real test will be the Le Mans trip - if you are interested look out for yellow chim x xxx DBV
cheers
jeff
seasider said:
......
Might have a problem with 5 Ltr bottle in the boot
would never fit all the kit in for Lemans... or any golf clubs
Well if in a Chim it handicaps your ability to put your 'handicap sticks/bats' in the boot, think of us poor S owners, 5 ltrs is about the total boot size before you put anything in . Harry
Harry
the basic bits (pump,solenoid,tubing,relay,vac switch, injectors, connectors) comes in at about £200. I spent a bit more than that getting the set up right mostly tinkering with injector size, vac switch and sundry bits, and probably will spend a bit more, but not a lot.
I finshed up sourcing from 'Coolmist' in the US and 'Turbobits' in UK - both companies very helpful (google has the addresses).
The tank and pump fit very neatly in the well at LHS of fuel tank.
jeff
Le Mans - don't know where I'll be exactly - going with a gang from around Cambridge and camping -
the basic bits (pump,solenoid,tubing,relay,vac switch, injectors, connectors) comes in at about £200. I spent a bit more than that getting the set up right mostly tinkering with injector size, vac switch and sundry bits, and probably will spend a bit more, but not a lot.
I finshed up sourcing from 'Coolmist' in the US and 'Turbobits' in UK - both companies very helpful (google has the addresses).
The tank and pump fit very neatly in the well at LHS of fuel tank.
jeff
Le Mans - don't know where I'll be exactly - going with a gang from around Cambridge and camping -
Interesting, I couldn't feel any difference between water on/off in normally aspirated mode. It might make more difference if you are pulling hot air in (but the ACT inducation system avoids that, doesn't it?).
One thing to be wary of with injection upstream of the throttle is water contamination of the AFM. If you get water droplets on the heated element it goes all doollally. This shouldn't be a problem at full chat but might be more of a problem when you initially turn the ignition on with the engine stopped.
One thing to be wary of with injection upstream of the throttle is water contamination of the AFM. If you get water droplets on the heated element it goes all doollally. This shouldn't be a problem at full chat but might be more of a problem when you initially turn the ignition on with the engine stopped.
Guys
injecting ahead of the air meter is a big NONO, sends its poor little brain doolallytap, as I found out along the way.
GreenV8 were you using 30% methanol or straight water? If I remember rightly you have a fairly heavily tuned up donkey - you might not have noticed the (modest) power gain
The gain I noted this morning was in the acceleration in 4th and 5th - from about 3500 rpm and up - but needs some stopwatch work to validate it (and a willing vounteer). I think the real benefit will be after the engine upgrade.
jeff
injecting ahead of the air meter is a big NONO, sends its poor little brain doolallytap, as I found out along the way.
GreenV8 were you using 30% methanol or straight water? If I remember rightly you have a fairly heavily tuned up donkey - you might not have noticed the (modest) power gain
The gain I noted this morning was in the acceleration in 4th and 5th - from about 3500 rpm and up - but needs some stopwatch work to validate it (and a willing vounteer). I think the real benefit will be after the engine upgrade.
jeff
HarryW said:
Peter I read the installation was upstream of the AFM between it and the plenum , I suppose you could get some blow back though.
Could you use the vac advance tube by the throttle butterfly if you are not using that for ignition
Harry
(Downstream of the AFM, i.e. between the AFM and the throttle, but I know what you mean.)
Yes, nominally this is OK because the air flow doesn't carry the water through the AFM. But when the engine is stopped there's no air flow and the water mist fills the whole intake. When it's idling the air flow is very low and the mist can still go some way upstream. I don't think you would want to sense off the dizzy vac line because it's a throttle edge tapping - doesn't see vacuum at idle.
Interesting stuff Jeff and glad the WI is proving its worth.
I had planned to install a two stage WI system into the plenum on the Griff. Subsequent to my plans and after further reading/research I shelved the project for several reasons, not least of which were: (1) In a normally aspirated engine I'd need to be running a higher comp' ratio than my current 10.2 : 1; one chap that builds drag motors gave a figure of 13 : 1
for it to be fully effective; not ideal on pump gas. (2) It may, if your motor is running lean, help prevent pinking but would only be masking an underlying problem (mine doesn't).
It could however, be of use to motors equipped with a knock-sensor: the cooling effect preventing knock (pinking) and allowing the ECU to maintain ignition at its optimum without recourse to backing off. Walked away with the thought that it's really for those either with some form of forced induction or running silly CR's. Having said all this, all indications are that it'd be doing no harm. I'd be interested to hear the results of any planned testing Jeff: keep us posted on this one
.
I had planned to install a two stage WI system into the plenum on the Griff. Subsequent to my plans and after further reading/research I shelved the project for several reasons, not least of which were: (1) In a normally aspirated engine I'd need to be running a higher comp' ratio than my current 10.2 : 1; one chap that builds drag motors gave a figure of 13 : 1
for it to be fully effective; not ideal on pump gas. (2) It may, if your motor is running lean, help prevent pinking but would only be masking an underlying problem (mine doesn't). It could however, be of use to motors equipped with a knock-sensor: the cooling effect preventing knock (pinking) and allowing the ECU to maintain ignition at its optimum without recourse to backing off. Walked away with the thought that it's really for those either with some form of forced induction or running silly CR's. Having said all this, all indications are that it'd be doing no harm. I'd be interested to hear the results of any planned testing Jeff: keep us posted on this one
.GreenV8S said:
Peter I read the installation was upstream of the AFM between it and the plenum
Harry
(Downstream of the AFM, i.e. between the AFM and the throttle, but I know what you mean.)
Yes, nominally this is OK because the air flow doesn't carry the water through the AFM. But when the engine is stopped there's no air flow and the water mist fills the whole intake. When it's idling the air flow is very low and the mist can still go some way upstream. I don't think you would want to sense off the dizzy vac line because it's a throttle edge tapping - doesn't see vacuum at idle.
that's why I fitted a master switch. turned on after starting and warmed up, off before stopping. In anycase the system only operates during driving when the manifold depression is between atmospheric and 4", so no risk of water vapour during idling. There is a risk if the system is 'active' with ignition on and engine off - hence the master switch. The system is only really needed during hard driving - no point if just bumbling along......
jeff
2Munkys said:
Interesting stuff Jeff and glad the WI is proving its worth.
I had planned to install a two stage WI system into the plenum on the Griff. Subsequent to my plans and after further reading/research I shelved the project for several reasons, not least of which were: (1) In a normally aspirated engine I'd need to be running a higher comp' ratio than my current 10.2 : 1; one chap that builds drag motors gave a figure of 13 : 1
It could however, be of use to motors equipped with a knock-sensor: the cooling effect preventing knock (pinking) and allowing the ECU to maintain ignition at its optimum without recourse to backing off. Walked away with the thought that it's really for those either with some form of forced induction or running silly CR's. Having said all this, all indications are that it'd be doing no harm. I'd be interested to hear the results of any planned testing Jeff: keep us posted on this one
Thanks for that. I think two stage would be overkill and little point. Nor (IMHO) is WI much use in small capacity engines unless forced induction. However there does appear to be a benefit in large capacity hard worked hot running n/a engines from octane boost and increased mass in combustion chamber. As you say helps prevent the dreaded knock (pinking) to make best use of timing. However the proof with be in the pudden over time. For comparatively small outlay (as these things go) worth a punt, and keeps me amused. Besides, I've always wanted to give it a whirl on a n/a engine out of curiousity
jeff
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff