Discussion
Hello
I am not a TVR owner (due to being 17) however I have read in numerous posts on here about Red Rose Engines and / or Cars. I was just wandering if anybody could tell me a bit about them and what significance they have? Does this “red rose” mean extra performance or just visual differences regarding the interior / exterior of the TVR? :confused:
Thanks
Jolly
I am not a TVR owner (due to being 17) however I have read in numerous posts on here about Red Rose Engines and / or Cars. I was just wandering if anybody could tell me a bit about them and what significance they have? Does this “red rose” mean extra performance or just visual differences regarding the interior / exterior of the TVR? :confused:
Thanks
Jolly
RR cars, other than "some" having a 95/97 octaine button fitted in the cabin, im afraid it's engine only.
And,
Yes it's a performance increase. Standard cars get about 320-350 ish BHP and RR cars seem to get 350-370 BHP.
Cars above that have other engine (intake/ecu remap) work done to get up-to 400+BHP.
You can see a list of the power figures for the different modifications at www.joospeed.co.uk 1/2 way down home page. To see what's involved take a look at TVR Power's web site under upgrades.
And,
Yes it's a performance increase. Standard cars get about 320-350 ish BHP and RR cars seem to get 350-370 BHP.
Cars above that have other engine (intake/ecu remap) work done to get up-to 400+BHP.
You can see a list of the power figures for the different modifications at www.joospeed.co.uk 1/2 way down home page. To see what's involved take a look at TVR Power's web site under upgrades.
My Tamora Red Rose (currently being built!) includes:
From what I understand a my spec is a 'Full Red Rose' as it includes all the options. However, the various elements can be chosen in any configuration. Mind you I'm only familiar with the Tamora Red Rose - there may be differentces with the other models....
- Blueprinted 375 bhp 3.6 Speed Six
- 374 bhp @ 7800rpm
- 395 NM @ 5800 rpm
- Tuscan S discs front and rear
- 322 mm ventilated discs with 4-pot calipers
- 298 mm ventilated discs with single caliper
- Large bore freeflow exhaust
From what I understand a my spec is a 'Full Red Rose' as it includes all the options. However, the various elements can be chosen in any configuration. Mind you I'm only familiar with the Tamora Red Rose - there may be differentces with the other models....
Very supprising. Absoluteley liniar 
... and Peak power at 6800rpmIts funny you mention that, my cerbie also had a totally linear curve and we never hit peak power, we chickened out at 7200rpm!!! It just kept going up!
I wander if there was something different with mine, probably could give the lonely MBE unit to Joolz to try out, but then how well the engine is running is a major factor too.
I wander if there was something different with mine, probably could give the lonely MBE unit to Joolz to try out, but then how well the engine is running is a major factor too.
Yeh.... After having tried the 97 octaine ecu map for the RR chip ( and got lots of detonation!) Peninsula and TVR Power went back to TVR Engineering who came back with this chip. It's an OEM MBE unit and the unknown map does solve the pinking but doesn't seem to take advantage of the Hi-Comp (Tuncan Racing)heads 
.
Unfortunately the new air intakes wern't ready so I've just had to put on a whole set of purple pipes. But next year I hope to get one of the modded air intake systems and finally get the ECU matched to the engine.
As for it's running condition....absolutely FANTASTIC. sooo smooth. I've had the entire cooling system overhauled/replaced and total top-end rebuilt. The combination of parts has resulted in a really responsive car that's prety streetable.
My only concearn for the future and further BHP is the longevity of the diffs/propshafts and driveshafts!
. Unfortunately the new air intakes wern't ready so I've just had to put on a whole set of purple pipes. But next year I hope to get one of the modded air intake systems and finally get the ECU matched to the engine.
As for it's running condition....absolutely FANTASTIC. sooo smooth. I've had the entire cooling system overhauled/replaced and total top-end rebuilt. The combination of parts has resulted in a really responsive car that's prety streetable.
My only concearn for the future and further BHP is the longevity of the diffs/propshafts and driveshafts!
The emerald and presumably the mbe austec remap don't intend to smooth the curves ..
what they give you is the absolute maximum power at any point in the rev range.
taking power out to make a smooth curve can only make your car slower.
optimising the power at every point can only make it go quicker.
I'd take the bumpiest curve in the world over the smoothest because the car is faster!
what they give you is the absolute maximum power at any point in the rev range.
taking power out to make a smooth curve can only make your car slower.
optimising the power at every point can only make it go quicker.
I'd take the bumpiest curve in the world over the smoothest because the car is faster!
A non-linear bhp curve can be the result of poor breathing or fueling or ignition or timing of intake/exhaust (cams) amongst other variables.
Technically speaking a non-linear bhp output results in wheelslip/parasitic drain/fluctuating mechanical load which increases harmonic vibrations resulting in excessive load on the engine and general wear and tear.
Yeah you might have an aggressive power output, but when mating that to the tarmac, its a different story to an ideal linear/smooth power curve with peak torque at higher RPMs. Too many variables/outputs get screwed up if power output is not linear, another reason why the likes of Mercedes/Porsche/Ferrari spend millions to get the power output perfectly smooth across the ideal RPM range for the intended purpose ie. racing, F1, performance road use.
So I would say if the output curve is more smooth and peak torque takes place at higher rpm and overall points on the RPM/HP/TORQUE graph are generally higher, she's a winner!
Technically speaking a non-linear bhp output results in wheelslip/parasitic drain/fluctuating mechanical load which increases harmonic vibrations resulting in excessive load on the engine and general wear and tear.
Yeah you might have an aggressive power output, but when mating that to the tarmac, its a different story to an ideal linear/smooth power curve with peak torque at higher RPMs. Too many variables/outputs get screwed up if power output is not linear, another reason why the likes of Mercedes/Porsche/Ferrari spend millions to get the power output perfectly smooth across the ideal RPM range for the intended purpose ie. racing, F1, performance road use.
So I would say if the output curve is more smooth and peak torque takes place at higher rpm and overall points on the RPM/HP/TORQUE graph are generally higher, she's a winner!
A Ferrari F355 (NA): (virtually linear in movement, and goes up all the way till the end, mind you, not exactly an impressive power output 
)
Just for the hell of it (twin turbo graph):
car
A blown graph:
easy tiger
Theres just something about blown motors, I'm trying to find the dyno graph of the Audi RV8, now that graph is mesmerising (not the restricted one, but the unrestricted)
) Just for the hell of it (twin turbo graph):
car
A blown graph:
easy tiger
Theres just something about blown motors, I'm trying to find the dyno graph of the Audi RV8, now that graph is mesmerising (not the restricted one, but the unrestricted)
S-X-S said:
A non-linear bhp curve can be the result of poor breathing or fueling or ignition or timing of intake/exhaust (cams) amongst other variables.
Technically speaking a non-linear bhp output results in wheelslip/parasitic drain/fluctuating mechanical load which increases harmonic vibrations resulting in excessive load on the engine and general wear and tear.
Yeah you might have an aggressive power output, but when mating that to the tarmac, its a different story to an ideal linear/smooth power curve with peak torque at higher RPMs. Too many variables/outputs get screwed up if power output is not linear, another reason why the likes of Mercedes/Porsche/Ferrari spend millions to get the power output perfectly smooth across the ideal RPM range for the intended purpose ie. racing, F1, performance road use.
So I would say if the output curve is more smooth and peak torque takes place at higher rpm and overall points on the RPM/HP/TORQUE graph are generally higher, she's a winner!
i take your point about rough curves and power delivery, but smoothing out a curve in mapping or design is only costing you performance. having power spikes is only an issue where power spike overcomes traction.
I argue that anyone smoothing a curve is costing performance, whether that be in the mapping or in the inherent design/build of the engine.
my argument : build a fast engine and extract it's true total performance potential at every point in the rev range, then worry about how you're going to control it (traction control, active torque split, ultra sticky tyres or just trust to driver skill like TVR).
whoever said sports cars should be easy to drive anyway?
blackmonday said:
So I take it Red Rose cars are aftermarket mods done by a seperate supplier / dealer (not the TVR factory itself)
Thanks for the responces btw
Jolly
Some are, however, my Red Rose was specified with and is currently being built by TVR - it is not aftermarket.
Just for my curiosity, I would love to see yours against a standard newish little beast on the rollers to get a head-on comparison...
and then we can plaster ther results up on here, you up for that?????
Preferably both car use an indie non-tvr associated rolling road, ie surrey rolling road.
jolly said:
So I take it Red Rose cars are aftermarket mods done by a seperate supplier / dealer (not the TVR factory itself)
Thanks for the responces btw
Jolly
No - RR is TVR's official performance upgrade, and is supplied as factory standard when a ar is built to RR spec, or can be fitted by TVR Power as an upgrade to an existing car.
Have a look at TVR Power's website for details on pricing and what you get....
As far as I am aware the upgrade undertaken by TVR Power is a modification to you'r existing heads, whereas cars ordered from new with RR engine use a different head mould.
TVR Power, flow and port the heads but the tools cannot get to some of the inner parts where as the mouldedd OEM RR heads have these parts moulded smooth from the start.
Although a later After Market modification I have Moulded heads rather than converted ones....not easy to get hold of!
TVR Power, flow and port the heads but the tools cannot get to some of the inner parts where as the mouldedd OEM RR heads have these parts moulded smooth from the start.
Although a later After Market modification I have Moulded heads rather than converted ones....not easy to get hold of!
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