How best to keep that back end on the tarmac
Discussion
Picking up my Chim 450 on Saturday. I'm a typical first time TVR buyer having graduated from four years and 2x MG ZS 180 saloons and others before that. I'm not used to traction control anyway. I've also driven a lot of MGTF/Fs and currently have a 924 as well. This possibly doesn't count as a lot of RWD experience I know but it does help! Maybe?.....
I'd like to think that I'm a pretty safe driver with only one small incident in 11 years and approx 170k miles, always obey the 2 second rule, drive so I can stop within the distance I can see etc. I'm also well aware of some of the common mistakes made by inexperienced TVR drivers e.g. lifting off mid-corner, excessive engine braking locking the rear wheels. However I don't want to be a statistic!
I didn't buy the Chim to go road racing, it's as much about the sound and the looks as the speed. The TVR will be a daily driver (for now, see how I get on) but I have a nice easy commute at the moment.
I'm seriously thinking about booking a course with Ride Drive because it has got to be money well spent. I also have some performance driver training at work coming up. Also seriously thinking about getting a roll bar fitted just in case as I know there is little protection as standard. The question is, how best do I ease myself into driving the Chim especially in this weather? Bit worried about even the experienced TVRers saying they get caught out sometimes.
I'd like to think that I'm a pretty safe driver with only one small incident in 11 years and approx 170k miles, always obey the 2 second rule, drive so I can stop within the distance I can see etc. I'm also well aware of some of the common mistakes made by inexperienced TVR drivers e.g. lifting off mid-corner, excessive engine braking locking the rear wheels. However I don't want to be a statistic!
I didn't buy the Chim to go road racing, it's as much about the sound and the looks as the speed. The TVR will be a daily driver (for now, see how I get on) but I have a nice easy commute at the moment.
I'm seriously thinking about booking a course with Ride Drive because it has got to be money well spent. I also have some performance driver training at work coming up. Also seriously thinking about getting a roll bar fitted just in case as I know there is little protection as standard. The question is, how best do I ease myself into driving the Chim especially in this weather? Bit worried about even the experienced TVRers saying they get caught out sometimes.
People tend to get caught out because they think they're Nigel Mansell.
I never had the back end out on the Chim, it stuck to the road like glue. Its only when you're absolutely caning it around poor quality roads that you're going to have issues.
Just enjoy it, be progressive with your right foot, and at every corner think "I could die", and you'll be fine
I never had the back end out on the Chim, it stuck to the road like glue. Its only when you're absolutely caning it around poor quality roads that you're going to have issues.
Just enjoy it, be progressive with your right foot, and at every corner think "I could die", and you'll be fine
I try to use the following rule,
If the road is wet or cold then keep the revs below 3k and always use minimal throttle. Worked for me over the last 7 years, Chim 400, Cerby 4.2 and T350. They all bite although the Chim was the worst. The only brown trouser moments have been while disobeying the rules...... Don't know what others think but I reckon anything below 15C is cold, just can't get the tyres warmed up driving sensibly.
Get the best set of boots you can find. My Chim had Dunlop SP somethings on it when I bought it. It was awful in the wet. Changed to Bridgestone S02pp, different car.
T350 is on Goodyear F1's superb in the wet, wear really well, (13k miles including 2 trackdays still got 4mm), but dry grip is not as impressive.
If the road is wet or cold then keep the revs below 3k and always use minimal throttle. Worked for me over the last 7 years, Chim 400, Cerby 4.2 and T350. They all bite although the Chim was the worst. The only brown trouser moments have been while disobeying the rules...... Don't know what others think but I reckon anything below 15C is cold, just can't get the tyres warmed up driving sensibly.
Get the best set of boots you can find. My Chim had Dunlop SP somethings on it when I bought it. It was awful in the wet. Changed to Bridgestone S02pp, different car.
T350 is on Goodyear F1's superb in the wet, wear really well, (13k miles including 2 trackdays still got 4mm), but dry grip is not as impressive.
DamnWiseguy said:
I'm also well aware of some of the common mistakes made by inexperienced TVR drivers e.g. lifting off mid-corner, excessive engine braking locking the rear wheels. However I don't want to be a statistic!
I didn't buy the Chim to go road racing, it's as much about the sound and the looks as the speed. The question is, how best do I ease myself into driving the Chim especially in this weather? Bit worried about even the experienced TVRers saying they get caught out sometimes.
It sounds like you've got the right attitiude, so you should be fine!
Normally the experienced ones that get caught out, are the ones doing something that they shouldn't be
Take it easy, always use gentle acceleration and braking.
Don't drive like a prat, and you'll be fine
I'm no expert (Tiv owner only 3 years), but there are 2 books I've read that have really helped (at least, from a theoretical viewpoint) - the first is Roadcraft, which teaches you the police 'system of car control', and the second is a high performance driving book (can't remember the full title) by Bob Bondurant.
Key message from book 1 is complete your braking before entry into a corner and don't accelerate until you're coming out of it, the key message from book 2 is be smooth in your braking and acceleration. Of course, there's a lot more in terms of balancing the car through corners, etc etc, but those are the key messages I've picked up. The more experienced PHers will probably shoot me down, and I will bow to their greater experience with high performance cars!
Be smooth, have fun, be safe.
Julian
Key message from book 1 is complete your braking before entry into a corner and don't accelerate until you're coming out of it, the key message from book 2 is be smooth in your braking and acceleration. Of course, there's a lot more in terms of balancing the car through corners, etc etc, but those are the key messages I've picked up. The more experienced PHers will probably shoot me down, and I will bow to their greater experience with high performance cars!
Be smooth, have fun, be safe.
Julian
I can advise you to do an IAM course or RoADA (ROSPA).
But all you need to survive the winter is some basic self-preservation instincts. In the dry do not floor the accelerator except in a straight line - and always squeeze it gently and progressively to whatever revs you require so you can (smoothly and progressively) remove any excess revs if you slide. Simply stabbing at the pedal will break traction on almost any surface at any temperature.
In the wet and cold drive like you had Miss Daisy in the passenger seat. Only apply power in a straight line - otherwise just balance the car. As mentioned - you will rarely need more than 3K revs in grotty conditions.
Downchanging - I could tell you all sorts of rev-matching finesse stuff - and that's fun and you should definitely go on a course to learn it. But what you really need to do is avoid braking hard and simply slamming the car into a lower gear. Brake early, long and smooth. Downchange to the gear you need after braking - or towards the end of braking if you can't manage the former. You are aiming for a change where the car slips into gear with a barely discernible take up.
Given you think about being smooth on the way up and down the gearbox you will be FINE!
ENJOY!
Its not the cars. Its the drivers.
Except in the snow. Tivs are crap in the snow.
But all you need to survive the winter is some basic self-preservation instincts. In the dry do not floor the accelerator except in a straight line - and always squeeze it gently and progressively to whatever revs you require so you can (smoothly and progressively) remove any excess revs if you slide. Simply stabbing at the pedal will break traction on almost any surface at any temperature.
In the wet and cold drive like you had Miss Daisy in the passenger seat. Only apply power in a straight line - otherwise just balance the car. As mentioned - you will rarely need more than 3K revs in grotty conditions.
Downchanging - I could tell you all sorts of rev-matching finesse stuff - and that's fun and you should definitely go on a course to learn it. But what you really need to do is avoid braking hard and simply slamming the car into a lower gear. Brake early, long and smooth. Downchange to the gear you need after braking - or towards the end of braking if you can't manage the former. You are aiming for a change where the car slips into gear with a barely discernible take up.
Given you think about being smooth on the way up and down the gearbox you will be FINE!
ENJOY!
Its not the cars. Its the drivers.
Except in the snow. Tivs are crap in the snow.
DamnWiseguy said:I had the same before getting my Cerb. The ZS gave you loads of confidence and I can say after 24k in the TVR I'm still learning and building confidence to drive at speed.
MG ZS 180 saloons and others before that.
As said before, just build up to it slowly and you'll be fine!
Have fun!
Alastair - great attitude first and foremost and gratifying to see. The advice on here is all top quality, notably the comment on taking a Ride Drive course which is money very well spent; you will learn a lot about advanced acceleration sense, road placement, avoiding engine braking/clutch drag, and other general skills which I found incredibly valuable. Julian C points this out exactly - "relearning" the "police" method of driving takes some practice, but is worth it and has increased my confidence in my Tuscan.
In addition, I think it is all about realising what the car can do and when you can and cannot exploit it. Boot a TVR in the wet, fresh off a roundabout, and there is a good chance you will become acquainted with the countryside - but to be honest, would you necessarily do that in any car? Treat the car with respect - and it should do likewise...
In addition, I think it is all about realising what the car can do and when you can and cannot exploit it. Boot a TVR in the wet, fresh off a roundabout, and there is a good chance you will become acquainted with the countryside - but to be honest, would you necessarily do that in any car? Treat the car with respect - and it should do likewise...
Agree with all of the above, and that you seem to have the right approach - if you're thinking about it, being careful & smooth and not going silly early on then you'll be fine.
As to Ride-drive, provided that you get an instructor familiar with TVRs, it is well worth it - if you do a day that includes an airfield session (Bruntingthorpe), then you will also get a chance to try the limits of the handling and the corrective action in a safe area. When I did this, I found that losing it totally
is a lot further away than you intially think.
As Don says, all of the IAM / ROSPA techniques work - and I'd say come into their own when applied to such a car - perhaps worth an investment of £85 - you'll be more than welcome at the Nottingham Trent group if you're at that end of the Midlands - we're not (all) beardies!
As to Ride-drive, provided that you get an instructor familiar with TVRs, it is well worth it - if you do a day that includes an airfield session (Bruntingthorpe), then you will also get a chance to try the limits of the handling and the corrective action in a safe area. When I did this, I found that losing it totally
is a lot further away than you intially think. As Don says, all of the IAM / ROSPA techniques work - and I'd say come into their own when applied to such a car - perhaps worth an investment of £85 - you'll be more than welcome at the Nottingham Trent group if you're at that end of the Midlands - we're not (all) beardies!
Thanks everyone for your replies, they all make a lot of sense and have put my mind at ease. Honestly reading some of the other posts on the forum you'd think that driving a TVR was akin to jumping off a cliff!
I'll take everything on board and will definitely be going for a ride drive course to start with. Also think the Chim has toyos at the moment, not sure how good they are but boots make a big difference to a car.
Maybe I'll just buy a big block of foam to stick under the loud pedal!
I'll take everything on board and will definitely be going for a ride drive course to start with. Also think the Chim has toyos at the moment, not sure how good they are but boots make a big difference to a car.
Maybe I'll just buy a big block of foam to stick under the loud pedal!
nothing wrong with toyo's they'll be fine.
sensible attitude is the key (but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it) just be reasonable.
have the suspension geometry checked and set if necessary. cheap to do and will ensure the car is at its best.
those suspension bits may be a bit tired by now.
i have alot more horsepower than many, and I still have to provoke the car into be unstable.
have fun, its why you bought it!
:thumbsup:
sensible attitude is the key (but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it) just be reasonable.
have the suspension geometry checked and set if necessary. cheap to do and will ensure the car is at its best.
those suspension bits may be a bit tired by now.
i have alot more horsepower than many, and I still have to provoke the car into be unstable.
have fun, its why you bought it!
:thumbsup:
DamnWiseguy said:
and currently have a 924 as well.
..nothing wrong with that.
The 924 is good practice, as I find the trailing arm rear actually makes it more snappy on e.g. roundabouts than the Chim will be (if it's anything like the Griff my wife had). Just watch out for power oversteer...
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