This months EVO group test with Tuscan S
Discussion
Yeah, just read the article myself too. Have to say when compared to the other cars it seems obvious that the game has moved on a fair bit and TVR haven't. The lack of driver aids used to be a selling point, but 55k for a steel chassis'd, GRP bodied car with no electrical pack to speak of for 55k sounds absurd these days. I really can't see many people handing over that money given the alternatives. In a way I'd prefer a return to the old days of spontanaeity, wacky but painfully beautiful styling, explosive V8 power and a modest price tag, and happily accept that bits will fall off....
I thought £55k was a Tuscan S with a Tuscan at £45K? Seems interesting that Evo slagged off the Tuscan's chasssis control in this article when in a previous article a few months ago they complemented it for one of the finest chassis TVR had done!! I have been a performance car then Evo reader for as long as I can remember but I do have to say that in general anything that isn't German doesn't stand a chance in any of their group tests!!!
longbow said:
Yeah, just read the article myself too. Have to say when compared to the other cars it seems obvious that the game has moved on a fair bit and TVR haven't.
Al 450 said:
Hmm, I was surprised as well. Think we have just got to the bottom of why TVR only sold 700 odd cars last year.
TVR sold less than 400 cars last year. TVR themselves projected 'about 440' towards the end of the year but there's a world of difference between selling stock to dealers and cars actually being sold. The misquoted "700" was the sum of cars in the "Other British" (miscellaneous) section of the SMMT figures.
I'm not sure the logic follows that £55K is too much for a car made of tubes and fibreglass. On that same basis, £100K is too much money for a Bentley when an S Class Benz is half the price (or a late used Phaeton is a quarter of the price). It doesn't stop Bentley selling more cars than ever. There's a value to exclusivity that transends the bills of materials and peers. You can Top Trump all manner of cars and stats against a Tuscan but at the end of the day, nothing else looks like one or wears the badge.
Price is emotive but I - and many others - have spec'ed TVRs to levels beyond economic sense. Fact is, a heavily loaded TVR to 'your own taste' is a fraction of the cost of trying to pull the same stunt anywhere else. That £55K Tuscan S is a bespoke car.
Why did they change the pricing structure? That's two magazines now that have mentioned the price and options. Surely it was better to have a normal Tuscan at x amount and then the Tuscan S at x+ (can't remember the figures they used to sell them at).
Now it seams you have a single Tuscan model starting at 38k that can be specced with all the options to 55k! Do they still badge them Tuscan S if you spend the 55k?
Graham
Now it seams you have a single Tuscan model starting at 38k that can be specced with all the options to 55k! Do they still badge them Tuscan S if you spend the 55k?
Graham
How much is it for a 911 Convertible that looks like a hunchback with 60Bhp less and an almost anonymous sense of style amongst the general public? I know where my money would be going. BMW have a similar pricing structure where almost everything is an option and yet people praise their business sense, TVR do it and they're mad. What we're saying here is that you can get a TVR Tuscan up to this price (or, I suspect beyond it) but at the end of the day, it is all down to personal preference.
Air-Con? No thanks. Sat-nav? I can read a map thanks.
If you don't like the price the car comes out as, don't spec it up so highly. TVR's options are often no-more expensive than those of BMW, so I honestly can't blame them on that score.
Does anyone know how many they have sold yet?
C
Air-Con? No thanks. Sat-nav? I can read a map thanks.
If you don't like the price the car comes out as, don't spec it up so highly. TVR's options are often no-more expensive than those of BMW, so I honestly can't blame them on that score.
Does anyone know how many they have sold yet?
C
Al 450 said:
Hmm, I was surprised as well. Think we have just got to the bottom of why TVR only sold 700 odd cars last year.
Is TVR a viable company with such low sales? I thought they needed to be nearer 1000+ units a year. If they really only sold 400 in 2005, then I personally accounted for 0.5% of their volume! Anyone beat that???
I don't know what EVO's agenda is.
You can get a very niceley specced non sports pack car with standard metallic paint for £42-44k
ie with air con, 18' alloys, etc...
That would be a fair price comparison,
OK the car they had to AVAILABLE to test perhaps cost that much more, BUT OVER
£3k of that was just on special paint. the leather costs, but tha standard trim is virtually indistinguishable.
I'm sre you could equally spec up the other 2 cars to the same value, and still not have the performance
B
You can get a very niceley specced non sports pack car with standard metallic paint for £42-44k
ie with air con, 18' alloys, etc...
That would be a fair price comparison,
OK the car they had to AVAILABLE to test perhaps cost that much more, BUT OVER
£3k of that was just on special paint. the leather costs, but tha standard trim is virtually indistinguishable.
I'm sre you could equally spec up the other 2 cars to the same value, and still not have the performance
B
comment is fine,
but to keep on about the price at £55k, when 3k extra of that is 'special' paint!!!
plus the extra sports pack, that you don't need to have, and NOT at mention you could get a perfectly excellent tusc for £45k in silver.
And implying you need to spec it up to £50k plus, money to be any good.
Whereas you CAN have the 18' alloys, aircon, mettalic paint, etc, etc for about £44k.
They must know this, but don't mention it.
ie one look at Racing Green TVR web site, has 2 very nice brand new tusc convertibles at ~£44,000 & 45,000, where i'm sure their is a little room for negotiation. which are totally in the same price bracket as the other evo cars tested.
Just a bit disapointed with EVO, they are usually fairer than this. ie it's a 52k tusc s without the paint, as were the previous models, there has always been about 10k between a standard tusc targa and a tusc targa s. Same is true with the new convertible
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 3rd April 11:36
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 3rd April 11:50
but to keep on about the price at £55k, when 3k extra of that is 'special' paint!!!
plus the extra sports pack, that you don't need to have, and NOT at mention you could get a perfectly excellent tusc for £45k in silver.
And implying you need to spec it up to £50k plus, money to be any good.
Whereas you CAN have the 18' alloys, aircon, mettalic paint, etc, etc for about £44k.
They must know this, but don't mention it.
ie one look at Racing Green TVR web site, has 2 very nice brand new tusc convertibles at ~£44,000 & 45,000, where i'm sure their is a little room for negotiation. which are totally in the same price bracket as the other evo cars tested.
Just a bit disapointed with EVO, they are usually fairer than this. ie it's a 52k tusc s without the paint, as were the previous models, there has always been about 10k between a standard tusc targa and a tusc targa s. Same is true with the new convertible
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 3rd April 11:36
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 3rd April 11:50
Hmmm £3k on "special" paint. Er...do TVRs come with anything "other" than special paint? Even metallic and "normal" you still have to fork out at least £500 extra for.
There is an aspect some/many of you have overlooked though. The assumption is that TVR have made a mistake supplying an overly expensive motor, not that TVR did it deliberately. For yrs the public perception is "cheap and fast, fall to bits." For all we know TVR could be deliberately playing a "we are now more expensive and classy" angle, in which case then you do want to highlight the price you are paying, engineer some badge snobbery in there. NOT the badge snobbery of slightly strange wierdos who liked the old TVRs, but the badge snobbery of Fezza and Porka owners. At that price range, the handmade bespokeness of the car becomes a big snob pt.
Now, Im not saying they have done that or even if it is a wise gameplan, it is however an option. Personally I would've highlighted a 3 tier range:
£35k - base spec.
£40k - base model + all options. (except S engine)
£40k - base S
£45k - S + all options.
£50k. Sucks, swallows and
s you into the middle of next week with the top down, i.e. the drop top equivalent of the Sagaris but without the "controversial" styling.
Still the T2 'vert looks a damn sight better than a 911 droptop, the Boxster and miles ahead of the Z4.
There is an aspect some/many of you have overlooked though. The assumption is that TVR have made a mistake supplying an overly expensive motor, not that TVR did it deliberately. For yrs the public perception is "cheap and fast, fall to bits." For all we know TVR could be deliberately playing a "we are now more expensive and classy" angle, in which case then you do want to highlight the price you are paying, engineer some badge snobbery in there. NOT the badge snobbery of slightly strange wierdos who liked the old TVRs, but the badge snobbery of Fezza and Porka owners. At that price range, the handmade bespokeness of the car becomes a big snob pt.
Now, Im not saying they have done that or even if it is a wise gameplan, it is however an option. Personally I would've highlighted a 3 tier range:
£35k - base spec.
£40k - base model + all options. (except S engine)
£40k - base S
£45k - S + all options.
£50k. Sucks, swallows and
s you into the middle of next week with the top down, i.e. the drop top equivalent of the Sagaris but without the "controversial" styling. Still the T2 'vert looks a damn sight better than a 911 droptop, the Boxster and miles ahead of the Z4.
jsr said:People will read this how they want to... I read the article last night and thought the exact opposite to you. i.e. that, leaving price aside, they loved the car and it was the only one that the all wanted to get back into and drive again - saying it was the epitome of a sports car
It wasn't just the price that let it down though, as Evo also commented that dynamically it is not as accomplished as the others.
See - you read a negative slant into it whilst I saw the positive! 
I too was dissapointed with the negative attitude towards the TVR based on the price.
Interstingly, in the Drive supplement in the Sunday Times this weekend, Jason Dawes report on buying a second hand BMW Z4. He states an 18 month old 3.0ltr Z4 with all the bits would cost £20k, and for similar money you can get a 2 yr old Honda S2000, 2 yr old Merc SLK or 3 yr old Boxster.
However for £20K you would be looking at a FOUR year old TVR Griffith.
Might cost a bit more new, but due to it's rare bespoke nature, it won't get hit so much by the dreaded deprciation, and if you buy a nearly new one, you'll be even better off.
Interstingly, in the Drive supplement in the Sunday Times this weekend, Jason Dawes report on buying a second hand BMW Z4. He states an 18 month old 3.0ltr Z4 with all the bits would cost £20k, and for similar money you can get a 2 yr old Honda S2000, 2 yr old Merc SLK or 3 yr old Boxster.
However for £20K you would be looking at a FOUR year old TVR Griffith.
Might cost a bit more new, but due to it's rare bespoke nature, it won't get hit so much by the dreaded deprciation, and if you buy a nearly new one, you'll be even better off.
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