Raceproved Speed 6 Clutch

[dvs_dave]

This upgraded clutch looks very interesting indeed. Does anybody know anything more about it....more specifically how long is it anticipated to last under typical use?

How does it compare to the TVR Craft upgraded clutch?

Raceproved seem to be coming up with some very promising TVR mods....although they don't seem to be making much effort with regards to marketing their products.

Edited by dvs_dave on Tuesday 29th August 15:37

[spartacus]

Could have done with this a few weeks ago FFS!

[nubbin]

Thanks for the link - it will be very useful for a lot of folks on here. Good price too for slave cylinder as well.

[Steve_T]

Looks good, but do you know if you can get parts of the clutch individually?

[trackcar]

I know the guy behind Raceproved Ltd very well, good friend of mine and very clever cookie he is too. The clutch is fitted already to a couple of development cars including his dad's own Tuscan and is performing brilliantly. The clutch addresses the known weak point head-on that's the premature failure of the diaphragm spring. The Raceproved version is of higher quality and slightly revised design to prevent the failure of the "waisted" portion of the fingers. When you see the two clutches side by side you can see where the new part is improved. They are bespoke springs too, not robbed out of another car .. it's a well researched project.

I don't think they are heavily marketting the stuff yet until they're absolutely sure it's the "bee's knees" .. Raceproved aren't the sort of company to start selling stuff before they are confident it's 110% suitable .. so when it is finally released in the wild you'll know it'll be something you can trust to outperform the std offering.

I believe there was talk of different versions ie friction plate friction types and diaphragm pressure depending on if it was going into a cruising low torque SP6 or a fire breathing high torque track day AJP8.

I know they've done a lot of development on this clutch as they've had my AJP8 block, crank and bellhousing as the initial test bed for trial fit and to watch exactly what was happening on the std clutch that might be causing the failures.

Great company, they've developed a few of my trick bits for me and the chances are that if you're getting previously unheard of products fitted to your Tuscans and Cerbies at your local garage they're probably a Raceproved developed and manufactured part!

[trackcar]

Steve_T said:

Looks good, but do you know if you can get parts of the clutch individually?

The piccie shows a reconditioned std clutch incorporating the upgraded internals .. the "dumb" parts of the clutch ie the alloy housing and floating centre can be reused if you want a cheaper alternative. However there is a fully redesigned completely new version available too. I don't think you'll be able to buy the individual parts yourself to refurbish your own clutch as it'd be very hard to keep track of quality of build issues but you can have exchange clutches on a recon basis at a number of approved rebuilder outlets that you could then fit at home if you wanted to.

[Steve_T]

My point was simply that the AP is billed as a rebuildable clutch, although TVR's licensing agreement precludes this. With bike clutches, which I'm more familiar with, it's common place to replace the plain and friction plates and springs, but retain the basket and pressure plate. I would expect to be able to do the same here, as hopefully a TVR style contract, forcing one to buy the complete unit, would no longer be in place. I take your point regarding assembly to the appropriate standards, however I don't see why a private individual could not work to these standards with suitable instructions and guidance. There are a number of folks on the Cerby forum who are clearly very capable with the spanners.

Steve.

[trackcar]

Steve_T said:

My point was simply that the AP is billed as a rebuildable clutch, although TVR's licensing agreement precludes this. With bike clutches, which I'm more familiar with, it's common place to replace the plain and friction plates and springs, but retain the basket and pressure plate. I would expect to be able to do the same here, as hopefully a TVR style contract, forcing one to buy the complete unit, would no longer be in place. I take your point regarding assembly to the appropriate standards, however I don't see why a private individual could not work to these standards with suitable instructions and guidance. There are a number of folks on the Cerby forum who are clearly very capable with the spanners.

Steve.

Indeed , but no-one is going to order a set of rebuild parts and say at the time that they're "not" capable of rebuilding it because they have no skills at all .. the warranty claims would be a nightmare lol!
How many times do we see it on here where (eg) someone buys suspension to fit at home and then comes on asking how to fit/set it up.? I get lots of phone calls from people who have installed a std AP clutch and can't get it to clear .. I even get other TVR garages calling me to ask how to get it to clear as they've tried 3 or 4 times and it still drags!

Your own rebuilding skills may be beyond reproach, but that isn't the case for everyone. By offering a rebuild service I guess Raceproved get around this area nicely

On the rebuild of the AP using AP parts (putting the TVR license to one side for a min) .. why would you want to rebuild it with the same parts that have failed creating the rebuild situation in the first place? That makes no sense at all once an alternative is available .. obviously previously there's been no option but to buy the AP through a TVR outlet.

Choice is a wonderful thing

[Steve_T]

trackcar said:

Steve_T said:

My point was simply that the AP is billed as a rebuildable clutch, although TVR's licensing agreement precludes this. With bike clutches, which I'm more familiar with, it's common place to replace the plain and friction plates and springs, but retain the basket and pressure plate. I would expect to be able to do the same here, as hopefully a TVR style contract, forcing one to buy the complete unit, would no longer be in place. I take your point regarding assembly to the appropriate standards, however I don't see why a private individual could not work to these standards with suitable instructions and guidance. There are a number of folks on the Cerby forum who are clearly very capable with the spanners.

Steve.

Indeed , but no-one is going to order a set of rebuild parts and say at the time that they're "not" capable of rebuilding it because they have no skills at all .. the warranty claims would be a nightmare lol!
How many times do we see it on here where (eg) someone buys suspension to fit at home and then comes on asking how to fit/set it up.? I get lots of phone calls from people who have installed a std AP clutch and can't get it to clear .. I even get other TVR garages calling me to ask how to get it to clear as they've tried 3 or 4 times and it still drags!

Your own rebuilding skills may be beyond reproach, but that isn't the case for everyone. By offering a rebuild service I guess Raceproved get around this area nicely

On the rebuild of the AP using AP parts (putting the TVR license to one side for a min) .. why would you want to rebuild it with the same parts that have failed creating the rebuild situation in the first place? That makes no sense at all once an alternative is available .. obviously previously there's been no option but to buy the AP through a TVR outlet.

Choice is a wonderful thing

Leaving the issue of my ability or lack of it out of this one for the moment, say the rebuild of the clutch pack is done by someone with the right skills, the issue of fitment still remains as you have mentioned. For instance, springs and dampers may be assembled by Nitron, Gaz etc and shipped, but that does not prevent a bad installation. It definitely is a good thing to offer a rebuild service, however the issue of finding someone to fit the clutch properly is the real problem and the root of warranty issues.

Funnily enough work I've had done away from approved dealer networks has been as good or better than that within it, so while what you say makes sense, I don't buy that going through an approved network should be the only choice a consumer is presented with. I feel you ought to be able to go direct to the manufacturer. For instance there's a German company on ebay selling hydraulic slave cylinders for bike clutches, they've enough confidence in their product to put it out there for the public to buy. I've had nothing to do with Race-Proved, but if their product is as good as you say, I still maintain folks ought to be able to buy and fit it themselves with appropriate support.

Steve.

Edited by Steve_T on Wednesday 30th August 11:14

[andyoleary]

Could be a daft question (forgive me if it is) but is there any commercial benefit to having this AP clutch fitted as a pre-emptive move rather than after the standard TVR clutch assy fails (not saying it will, but just hypothetically speaking....) Also, is there any way to know when/if an existing clutch is about to fail? Just curious, I have no issues with the standard unit fitted to my Tuscan but I am coming up to the 20K miles mark and wonder whether this might be a good investment. Naturally, if there is no way to pre-empt failure or the cost to fit the AP clutch is no more before or after a failure then this question is irrelevant - thought I'd ask anyway....

Cheers

Andy

[trackcar]

Steve_T said:

trackcar said:

Steve_T said:

My point was simply that the AP is billed as a rebuildable clutch, although TVR's licensing agreement precludes this. With bike clutches, which I'm more familiar with, it's common place to replace the plain and friction plates and springs, but retain the basket and pressure plate. I would expect to be able to do the same here, as hopefully a TVR style contract, forcing one to buy the complete unit, would no longer be in place. I take your point regarding assembly to the appropriate standards, however I don't see why a private individual could not work to these standards with suitable instructions and guidance. There are a number of folks on the Cerby forum who are clearly very capable with the spanners.

Steve.

Indeed , but no-one is going to order a set of rebuild parts and say at the time that they're "not" capable of rebuilding it because they have no skills at all .. the warranty claims would be a nightmare lol!
How many times do we see it on here where (eg) someone buys suspension to fit at home and then comes on asking how to fit/set it up.? I get lots of phone calls from people who have installed a std AP clutch and can't get it to clear .. I even get other TVR garages calling me to ask how to get it to clear as they've tried 3 or 4 times and it still drags!

Your own rebuilding skills may be beyond reproach, but that isn't the case for everyone. By offering a rebuild service I guess Raceproved get around this area nicely

On the rebuild of the AP using AP parts (putting the TVR license to one side for a min) .. why would you want to rebuild it with the same parts that have failed creating the rebuild situation in the first place? That makes no sense at all once an alternative is available .. obviously previously there's been no option but to buy the AP through a TVR outlet.

Choice is a wonderful thing

Leaving the issue of my ability or lack of it out of this one for the moment, say the rebuild of the clutch pack is done by someone with the right skills, the issue of fitment still remains as you have mentioned. For instance, springs and dampers may be assembled by Nitron, Gaz etc and shipped, but that does not prevent a bad installation. It definitely is a good thing to offer a rebuild service, however the issue of finding someone to fit the clutch properly is the real problem and the root of warranty issues.

Funnily enough work I've had done away from approved dealer networks has been as good or better than that within it, so while what you say makes sense, I don't buy that going through an approved network should be the only choice a consumer is presented with. I feel you ought to be able to go direct to the manufacturer. For instance there's a German company on ebay selling hydraulic slave cylinders for bike clutches, they've enough confidence in their product to put it out there for the public to buy. I've had nothing to do with Race-Proved, but if their product is as good as you say, I still maintain folks ought to be able to buy and fit it themselves with appropriate support.

Steve.

Edited by Steve_T on Wednesday 30th August 11:14

Well I take on board your thought process .. maybe raceproved might like to give something back to the people who help them in their development by only allowing purchase through selected distributors ? Whichever is the case, you now have a choice! That's an important bit

[rev-erend]

Hope the end product is good ..

talking to a porsche 911 turbo owner the other day - he mentioned he had a new clutch .. asked him how many miles it had done and nearly fell over when he said 55K..

So - TVR's with similar power are not really doing very well with 20K .. but then again they are failing and not wearing out..

[big_treacle]

So this clutch will be good for AJP8's as well as Spd6's then?

Edited to say I've now read the link & am educated fully.

Edited by big_treacle on Wednesday 30th August 16:36

[nubbin]

andyoleary said:

Could be a daft question (forgive me if it is) but is there any commercial benefit to having this AP clutch fitted as a pre-emptive move rather than after the standard TVR clutch assy fails (not saying it will, but just hypothetically speaking....) Also, is there any way to know when/if an existing clutch is about to fail? Just curious, I have no issues with the standard unit fitted to my Tuscan but I am coming up to the 20K miles mark and wonder whether this might be a good investment. Naturally, if there is no way to pre-empt failure or the cost to fit the AP clutch is no more before or after a failure then this question is irrelevant - thought I'd ask anyway....

Cheers

Andy

I suppose you could buy one and keep it stored, then replace when your clutch gives up - but I'm not convinced that this 20,000 mile clutch business is a hard fact - more like a few premature failures setting up a "me too" scenario, whilst the majority of drivers chug along happily well beyond 20k. Also, why chuck away a perfectly sound clutch becuase of fear of it failing?

[mad mark]

As Trackcar said these clutches are still in their early days, so before any BIG announcment is made, they want to know that what they are selling IS going to be an improvement on the original.
I am currently testing one of these clutches in my car, along with the slave cylinder, and can tell you that it IS a vast improvement over my old clutch.
There are going to be different spring rates, the one I have is very light, and smooth, a similar feel to our Ford Focus. But is more than capable of holding up to the power.

[mad mark]

andyoleary said:

Also, is there any way to know when/if an existing clutch is about to fail?
Cheers

Andy

Not necessarily, sometimes you may be lucky and have one finger fail, in which case you can still drive but have difficulties getting in/out of gear. Or you may have a number break all at the same time, and your left stranded, no warning and no gears.

This is what happened to me, 35mph 4th into 5th then no clutch. Phone a friend time

Another sign of finger loss is, along with it being more difficult to get into gear you may get a slight vibration. Caused by the clutch being off balance.

[andyoleary]

Mad_Mark & Nubbin - thanks for the replies. It is not that I am thinking of spending money where it is not needed, rather that I was wondering whether there is any cost benefit of changing out the clutch before if fails rather than after. I can see though that there is no real way to pre-empt a failure so, at the end of the day, no point changing until necessary.

I'll carry on as I am and just keep an eye on the "feel" of the gate/bite etc and, if it goes, it goes!

Cheers

Andy

[Mr Freefall]

mad mark said:

andyoleary said:

Also, is there any way to know when/if an existing clutch is about to fail?
Cheers

Andy

Not necessarily, sometimes you may be lucky and have one finger fail, in which case you can still drive but have difficulties getting in/out of gear. Or you may have a number break all at the same time, and your left stranded, no warning and no gears.

This is what happened to me, 35mph 4th into 5th then no clutch. Phone a friend time

Another sign of finger loss is, along with it being more difficult to get into gear you may get a slight vibration. Caused by the clutch being off balance.

Mark, did you fit your own clutch?

Mr F

[whitey]

gutted this was not available in January! I could have upgraded rather than replace...ho hum....

[rev-erend]

My T350 clutch failed - it still had plenty of friction material left and all buddies with same clutch have failed and not worn out..