Should we be allowed to name and shame?

[p7 tus]

Having had a bad experience recently with a TVR dealer giving a quote on work to be carried out on my car, which was over inflated. (see topic below)

www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=309298&f=5&h=0

Who thinks we should be allowed to name and shame those who are trying to rip us off?

[UncleDave]

It gets PistonHeads into bother though..
It'd be good if some legal eagles helped to put a website together with a nice disclaimer where you could submit praise or horrors about the dealers!

[Not that it matters to be in this stage of my life ]

Dave.

Edited by UncleDave on Tuesday 26th September 15:36

[haze]

Certainly, we as the public should have the right to know. The professionals from the rogues.

It's not always good at that moment in time for an individual, who is receiving the rough end of the stick from a dealer.

However it gives people an indication, of potential problems. Then in my view knowing all the relevant facts. It is then the option of the individual to use that dealer/person or not.

And on another plus note, its customer feedback for the dealer. So if they are not providing a professional service. It more than gives them the opportunity to pull there finger out. And get issues resolved.

[GreenV8S]

There's nothing stopping you from setting up your own web site where you can say what you want, and take responsibility for any legal problems that occur as a result. You could even let others post there, if you don't mind taking any legal flak that comes your way because of their posts.

[p7 tus]

GreenV8S said:

There's nothing stopping you from setting up your own web site where you can say what you want, and take responsibility for any legal problems that occur as a result. You could even let others post there, if you don't mind taking any legal flak that comes your way because of their posts.

That’s all very well but why in this democratic society we live in we don’t have freedom of speech. If someone try’s to pull your trousers down you should be able to name and shame without any legal implications (as long as you have evidence to support your claims)

[.Mark]

p7 tus said:

[quote=GreenV8S](as long as you have evidence to support your claims)

That's the key though isn't it? For every 1 decent and 100% accurate story there will be another 10 out there where someone has an axe to grind and will just be plain out to do damage. Because of that we have the rules.

I look at it a bit like visiting Ted's house, go there, be polite, have a bit of a laugh and debate, but avoid a punch-up with the other guests and friends - leave that for outside

[Tripps]

p7 tus said:

That’s all very well but why in this democratic society we live in we don’t have freedom of speech. If someone try’s to pull your trousers down you should be able to name and shame without any legal implications (as long as you have evidence to support your claims)

It is a pain, as we Brits don't often give praise where it's due and mud does stick when accusations are made, even though often they could be resolved with a quick phone conversation to everybody's satisfaction.

I've come across this recently trying to get my Clio serviced. I posted on four forums (PH and three Renault ones) recently trying to find out about a local servicing indie who had very good prives and got one bit of negative feedback, none positive - so I've decided not to use the guy even though he may be fine, which isn't ideal but I want to be careful.

Perhaps though, a slightly more abstract system might work, a little like eBay having a score (1-5, thumb up/down) against the provider of the service but no comments. This would avoid any legal issues (you could always ask about bad reviews through PM) and hopefully be quick and easy enough to use so everyone who is happy gives a score, thus outweighing one bad review an otherwise impecable place might receive.

[andyoleary]

I think we should be able to post feedback (good or bad) on a specific quote/sale/service/maintenance experience based on generic criteria such as satisfaction etc, etc. Doesn't have to be negatively opinionated but more based on facts/experience. It is then up to the reader to make up their own mind, as others have already stated.

Personally, I can't see why there is a danger of legal backlash from people posting their experiences on-line. Looking at it from another angle, if someone praises an indy/garage/OEM and someone else takes their business there based on the positive praise yet has a bad experience in terms of cost/service etc does the original poster of the positive praise then become legally liable? Don't think so....surely anyone taking up legal action against a negative post is pretty much shooting themselves in the foot anyway? All this will do is help to separate the wheat from the chaff which is what happens by word of mouth anyway. I like Graham's (yzf1070) idea in this thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=5&t=309298

Andy

[funkyol]

I also think that all too often people only write about their bad experiences - to get things off of their chests.

The Internet in many ways can be pretty bad for exaggerating things. For every bad experience I bet there are 10 good ones, it's just that if you go somewhere and get good service, on the whole you'll rarely write about it, whereas if you've had a bad experience, you'll immediately share it with every man and his dog.

I'd be prepared to wager that the majority of people have generally had a good quality and level of customer service, it just doesn't look that way on here.

[funkyol]

Tripps said:

we Brits don't often give praise where it's due and mud does stick when accusations are made, even though often they could be resolved with a quick phone conversation to everybody's satisfaction.

Beat me to it

Edited by funkyol on Tuesday 26th September 16:13

[Lizzy Dexic]

There's nothing to stop people asking about a dealer on the forum with replies to be sent via email, that way you'll get a good spread of replies.

From my own expierience I listed to some one slate a very good indie only to find that the owner was less than economical with the truth, he made lots of wild accusations but neglected to tell me and the indie that he'd been messing with a few things himself.

[Dave 500]

I wish we could then I could tell even more people about an outfit near me. I booked my car in for a service to get it ready for the cannonball last year when the service was complete the car ran like a bag of S(*t would'nt idle and fet slow. It was taken back and they said the headgasket had gone so OK do the work. 1 week later the car was ready so went and picked it up to find it was still running like crap. Sorry mate your engine is f£%ked you will need a new one. OK . I then took the car to another garage who said one of the new spark plugs was broken and replaced it free of charge the car has run fine for over 7000 mile since. So all in all nearly had to pay out for a new engine when all it needed was a new spark plug WA*&ERS

[p7 tus]

funkyol said:

I also think that all too often people only write about their bad experiences - to get things off of their chests.

The Internet in many ways can be pretty bad for exaggerating things. For every bad experience I bet there are 10 good ones, it's just that if you go somewhere and get good service, on the whole you'll rarely write about it, whereas if you've had a bad experience, you'll immediately share it with every man and his dog.

I'd be prepared to wager that the majority of people have generally had a good quality and level of customer service, it just doesn't look that way on here.

Where else do you go? Do I stand out on the street with a sandwich board saying "Be warned this lot are cowboys" If you were almost taken for £2500 wouldn't you want other people to know about it?

[Tripps]

Lizzy Dexic said:

From my own expierience I listed to some one slate a very good indie only to find that the owner was less than economical with the truth, he made lots of wild accusations but neglected to tell me and the indie that he'd been messing with a few things himself.

That's always the worry, but if it was handled as a seperate area, like Reviews say, then it could be moderated and the supplier could challenge reviews if they disagreed, the review could be suspended then while the moderator discusses it with the parties involved.

[Lizzy Dexic]

Tripps said:

Lizzy Dexic said:

From my own expierience I listed to some one slate a very good indie only to find that the owner was less than economical with the truth, he made lots of wild accusations but neglected to tell me and the indie that he'd been messing with a few things himself.

That's always the worry, but if it was handled as a seperate area, like Reviews say, then it could be moderated and the supplier could challenge reviews if they disagreed, the review could be suspended then while the moderator discusses it with the parties involved.

Trouble is damage is already done, good indies and dealers tend to be very busy and haven't got time to monitor internet forums.... maybe the onus is on the garage to have a 'your comments' section on their own website.

[funkyol]

p7 tus said:

Where else do you go? Do I stand out on the street with a sandwich board saying "Be warned this lot are cowboys" If you were almost taken for £2500 wouldn't you want other people to know about it?

Calm down chap! I'm not saying you shouldn't complain if you get bad service, I'm saying that what you read on the Internet isn't really a true reflection of the levels of service one would generally receive. In so much as if everyone posted their good experiences as well as all of their bad ones, I guarantee the good would far outweigh the bad.

[johnbear]

Yer, that's a good idea. An area were you can add a dealer and post a review and a rating.

If PH doesn't do it then someonel else will. It's a bit like wikipedia, were you can add or change what ever you like, but if it's incorrect someone will change it back.

It gives the customer a chance to post reviews and dealers the opportunity to reply. It's then up to the reader to form their own view.

Maybe even the rating system from ebay could be used.

[Tripps]

Lizzy Dexic said:

Trouble is damage is already done, good indies and dealers tend to be very busy and haven't got time to monitor internet forums.... maybe the onus is on the garage to have a 'your comments' section on their own website.

It is difficult, that's why something like thumbs up and down might be the easiest way to do it, a downward pointing thumb says "disgruntled" rather than "they're a bunch of thieving g!ts who can't fix cars to save their lives" it's not as obviously bad.

The recommended review(er) system could be used too and folks who only gave thumbs down could be watched over...

Perhaps is the garage was involved in the decision to have them in the reviews section they could be kept informed of bad reviews and have their say.

It's all getting more complex though and Ted only had one set of hands, which are already busy enough.

[p7 tus]

funkyol said:

p7 tus said:

Where else do you go? Do I stand out on the street with a sandwich board saying "Be warned this lot are cowboys" If you were almost taken for £2500 wouldn't you want other people to know about it?

Calm down chap! I'm not saying you shouldn't complain if you get bad service, I'm saying that what you read on the Internet isn't really a true reflection of the levels of service one would generally receive. In so much as if everyone posted their good experiences as well as all of their bad ones, I guarantee the good would far outweigh the bad.

Sorry I don't mean to offend anyone, but I feel we are to PC in this country of ours and I believe in freedom of speech.

Edited by p7 tus on Tuesday 26th September 16:57

[matt172]

I'd say that no we shouldn't be allowed to name and shame, all we would be hearing is you side of the story, and the other party envolved has no way to defend there corner, unless I guess they join PH and post under the company name, which I wouldn't have thought would happen.