TVR rally in London.
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I wouldn’t say that the S6 is crap, it's just that I feel that TVR have USED the owners to prove the engine, and still are IMHO.
I did have the first Tuscan S convertible on order, but cancelled it 3 months after NS took over the company. I couldn't see at that point where the company was going.
Still not sure about the S6 engine, rumours are that it's going to be produced by Ricardo in Shoreham. Funny thing is Ricardo are an engine development company, NOT an engine builder!
Can't understand that bit of the new TVR equation.
Gazboy said:
Big Al. said:
I can see where you are coming from Gaz, BUT if TVR had produced a car that buyers had confidence (V8 Tuscan?) in they may well be reaping the rewards.
Oh I agree <blah, blah, blah>... but handing over a piece of paer that says "please stay in Britain even though I wasn't one of the seventy people who bought a TVR this year" totaly passes over my head in a big way.Gazboy said:
Big Al. said:
I can see where you are coming from Gaz, BUT if TVR had produced a car that buyers had confidence (V8 Tuscan?) in they may well be reaping the rewards.
Oh I agree, and you can see that a bought in V8 in a Tuscan is what most people appear to want when you read these forums (I'd love an LS2 powered Tuscan) but it's still not cold hard cash- if the signee's of the petition each turned up with a £15k deposit per person for a V8 Tuscan then yes I'd see the point, but handing over a piece of paer that says "please stay in Britain even though I wasn't one of the seventy people who bought a TVR this year" totaly passes over my head in a big way.
That's not what the petition said.
IMHO Smolensky probably ought to reconsider going abroad.
My 'gut' tells me that most people who buy TVRs do so not only because they are fast, but because they are highly styled, allow tall people to drive them, and are made in Britain.
If he wanted to have the TVR brand, then that means they also need to be made in Britain.
If he wanted to build a sportscar he could have just set up a factory anywhere and employed a number of talented Engineers to design one and build it. And there would be no reason that it couldn't be as good as a Noble or Koenigsegg or any other new brand for that matter.
So if he has to fix TVR in the UK, then he needs a cheap factory and to employ some lean techniques. Utilising proven components and systems from big manufacturers could seriously lower development costs and allow TVR to concentrate on their core skill, a fast, lightweight car with interesting styling.
All the protesting in the world won't fix this. A rational conversation with somebody who has experience in Lean / DFMA / Vehicle Engineering might sway the decision but ultimately Smolensky is the boss and it's his money on the line.
I would add I've seen this on numerous occasions when politicans and the media discuss any car plant closing, but when the reporter asks what they drive it's either a 25+ year old classic or never what this company made so they really have no stake in the matter.
I'm looking at it with interest, much like looking at a chess match being played. You can watch all the players in a tournament, hope they acquit themselves well, but some meet an early demise. TVR is in check right now but it isn't mate yet.
My 'gut' tells me that most people who buy TVRs do so not only because they are fast, but because they are highly styled, allow tall people to drive them, and are made in Britain.
If he wanted to have the TVR brand, then that means they also need to be made in Britain.
If he wanted to build a sportscar he could have just set up a factory anywhere and employed a number of talented Engineers to design one and build it. And there would be no reason that it couldn't be as good as a Noble or Koenigsegg or any other new brand for that matter.
So if he has to fix TVR in the UK, then he needs a cheap factory and to employ some lean techniques. Utilising proven components and systems from big manufacturers could seriously lower development costs and allow TVR to concentrate on their core skill, a fast, lightweight car with interesting styling.
All the protesting in the world won't fix this. A rational conversation with somebody who has experience in Lean / DFMA / Vehicle Engineering might sway the decision but ultimately Smolensky is the boss and it's his money on the line.
I would add I've seen this on numerous occasions when politicans and the media discuss any car plant closing, but when the reporter asks what they drive it's either a 25+ year old classic or never what this company made so they really have no stake in the matter.
I'm looking at it with interest, much like looking at a chess match being played. You can watch all the players in a tournament, hope they acquit themselves well, but some meet an early demise. TVR is in check right now but it isn't mate yet.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Think this is the most sensible thing I have read on the subject on this forum.
Wise words mate - couldn’t have put it better myself - very sad, but very true.
I have kept very quiet on the subject up to now, as I wasn't (and am still not) sure how I feel.
I did buy a car this year - arrived in February, had gasket went after 2,500 miles, car off the road for 2 months (for various reasons).
Car back in June, problem with the air conditioning which I waited until the Autumn to fix. Car has now been off the road for 8 weeks, mostly due to the turmoil at the factory. I realise that they have more to worry about than my car, but it is ironic that I am one of the ones who did put their hand in their pocket this year.
So I couldn't have gone yesterday, whatever my feelings.
If I hadn't bought a new car, and kept our previous Chimaera, I probably would have been able to go.
I can't win, can I?
everyone has their own opinion on this rally and heres mine as the wife of a laid off worker with two childrena and santa due soon it has been a very emotional time and one of the main things that has helped us through is the support from tvr owners from all over the country. my husband loves the cars and it is far more than a job he has lost. 479 owners showed their support yesterday for the workers as well as many others who are tvr enthusiasts. Yes there were breakdowns - emotional ones that is!!!! My children had the day of a lifetime yesterday being able to ride around London by two fantastic owners in cerberas - thankfully they did not have the same mindset as some of you here. Be greatful that you have a british handbuilt tvr!!!!
karen
karen
I have been another that has kept quiet on the what future holds for TVR partly because I have (had) to do some work with the factory's management.
The problem has nowt to do with the cars but is entirely due to the fact that people will not pay £55k for a car that may not have parts availability come April (or whenever). Do I love the Tuscan, hell yes! Would I shell out for one in the full knowledge that should the screen/engine break in twelve months time the car may prove so expensive to fix that it is a write off. erm.... no.
It is a trrible shame that one individual gentleman has pi**ed about so much that it is hard to view the entity as a long term going concern or indeed as being salvageable.
The problem has nowt to do with the cars but is entirely due to the fact that people will not pay £55k for a car that may not have parts availability come April (or whenever). Do I love the Tuscan, hell yes! Would I shell out for one in the full knowledge that should the screen/engine break in twelve months time the car may prove so expensive to fix that it is a write off. erm.... no.
It is a trrible shame that one individual gentleman has pi**ed about so much that it is hard to view the entity as a long term going concern or indeed as being salvageable.
purplepassion said:
everyone has their own opinion on this rally and heres mine as the wife of a laid off worker with two childrena and santa due soon it has been a very emotional time and one of the main things that has helped us through is the support from tvr owners from all over the country. my husband loves the cars and it is far more than a job he has lost. 479 owners showed their support yesterday for the workers as well as many others who are tvr enthusiasts. Yes there were breakdowns - emotional ones that is!!!! My children had the day of a lifetime yesterday being able to ride around London by two fantastic owners in cerberas - thankfully they did not have the same mindset as some of you here. Be greatful that you have a british handbuilt tvr!!!!
karen
karen
Rushes off to look for Karen on my electronic boxes on my Cerb. Nope Carol & Tina
Edit: I think it's thank you for such a wonderful car you built and thank you for coming. I know having the workers there made it as a Celebration of TVR's.
Edited by byker28i on Monday 27th November 19:50
480 - due to an accident (not me) on the M3 I arrived just after the counting! doh.
I agree with George - their heyday was the Griff/Chimaera era - cheap, fun, ridiculously fast for the money and with reliable bought-in engines that sounded fantastic, and of course the unique selling point - British and hand made. They even pulled it off with the Cerb and the AJP8. However they didn't stick to the knitting and IMO it went wrong with the Sp6 which created the unreliability reputation which is so hard to shake off. Yes, we know it's OK now but the damage is done. My boss, a 911 owner, on hearing about the rally said 'many AA vans with you, were there?' and I think that's indicative of the view of the general public. The first question I always get is 'break down much, does it?' even though I've got a RV8. Secondly I think it would be hard to find anyone that doesn't think the Griff and Chim are beautiful cars, but from the Tuscan the newer ones got ever whackier in their design and tended to polarise views - witness the discussions on here about the Tamora and Sagaris designs especially. People either love 'em or hate 'em (I'm not so keen on the Tamora for instance, but love the others) whereas just about everybody loves the Chim/Griff/Cerb.
Take those 2 reasons (for which you can't really blame NS) and add in the useless PR, higher prices and competition that just wasn't around in the past (Boxster, Z4 for starters) and you can see why the non-enthusiasts are put off.
I now think one of two things will happen (save a reversal of the outsourcing decision) - they will gradually shake off the unreliability image, while reaching emissions and safety standards that allow them to sell in higher volumes in Europe and the States where they don't even know of the past reliability issue and won't need to care about us patriotic Brits, or by moving they'll lose what's left of their core fans and go bankrupt. I hope it's the former as the name lives on and there will still be employment building the drivetrains, but I'm no longer sure I'll buy another one if it's no longer "British".
Many thanks to the TVR workers for a splendid car - after 4 years I'm still thrilled to bits every time I start it! (and it always starts!)
I agree with George - their heyday was the Griff/Chimaera era - cheap, fun, ridiculously fast for the money and with reliable bought-in engines that sounded fantastic, and of course the unique selling point - British and hand made. They even pulled it off with the Cerb and the AJP8. However they didn't stick to the knitting and IMO it went wrong with the Sp6 which created the unreliability reputation which is so hard to shake off. Yes, we know it's OK now but the damage is done. My boss, a 911 owner, on hearing about the rally said 'many AA vans with you, were there?' and I think that's indicative of the view of the general public. The first question I always get is 'break down much, does it?' even though I've got a RV8. Secondly I think it would be hard to find anyone that doesn't think the Griff and Chim are beautiful cars, but from the Tuscan the newer ones got ever whackier in their design and tended to polarise views - witness the discussions on here about the Tamora and Sagaris designs especially. People either love 'em or hate 'em (I'm not so keen on the Tamora for instance, but love the others) whereas just about everybody loves the Chim/Griff/Cerb.
Take those 2 reasons (for which you can't really blame NS) and add in the useless PR, higher prices and competition that just wasn't around in the past (Boxster, Z4 for starters) and you can see why the non-enthusiasts are put off.
I now think one of two things will happen (save a reversal of the outsourcing decision) - they will gradually shake off the unreliability image, while reaching emissions and safety standards that allow them to sell in higher volumes in Europe and the States where they don't even know of the past reliability issue and won't need to care about us patriotic Brits, or by moving they'll lose what's left of their core fans and go bankrupt. I hope it's the former as the name lives on and there will still be employment building the drivetrains, but I'm no longer sure I'll buy another one if it's no longer "British".
Many thanks to the TVR workers for a splendid car - after 4 years I'm still thrilled to bits every time I start it! (and it always starts!)
- if the signee's of the petition each turned up with a £15k deposit per person for a V8 Tuscan then yes I'd see the point, but handing over a piece of paer that says "please stay in Britain even though I wasn't one of the seventy people who bought a TVR this year" totaly passes over my head in a big way.[/quote]
Kinda misses the point of the rally for some of us doesn't it?
How many of the TVR owners that took part in Sunday's event have the funds available to buy a new Sagaris for example? I love my Cerb for many different reasons not least of which is the way it makes me 'feel' when I'm behind the wheel, but I'm not in a position to spend £45K to £50K on any car let alone a TVR. I had to wait until a Cerb fell into my price range before I could take the plunge into TVR ownership.
I've never been unfortunate enough to be made redundant from my job so if doing something I enjoy (driving my Cerb) can help in some very small way someone less fortunate than me by raising awareness of the problems that will hopefully result in solutions, I'm happy to have signed the petition and to have taken part in LT!
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