help tuscan goes all over the place
Discussion
bigredtuscan said:
on every club site there is always one **** and i see its cobra kid
Sorry, it just seemed such a vague question it needed a vague answer.
Is your steering lightness when in a straight line? under braking? under acceleration? in corners????
As for your insult, is there any way I can take you to task about it as obviously it is a bit difficult to meet in person to "discuss" it.
And of course you being a member for such a long time as 7 days you know mne extremely well don't you?
Edited by cobra kid on Saturday 10th February 12:25
Edited by cobra kid on Saturday 10th February 12:26
At risk of being labelled a **** along with Cobra Kid, TADTS.
TVR's are notorious for tramlining and generally nervous/unsettled handling, particularly on rutted or uneven road surfaces.
The Speed Six generation cars are much better than the Griffith generation and as Mrs Fish says, Nitrons are reputed to make a big improvement (I've driven many TVR's and owned a Griffith 500, but I've never had the opportunity to drive a Nitron equipped example, so I can't comment personally), but the bottom line is that you will need to be brave bordering on foolhardy if you expect to be able to hustle it down country lanes at the sort of speeds a modern hot hatch is capable of.
Sorry, but if you wanted to drive fast on twisty roads, you should have bought a Lotus.
TVR's are notorious for tramlining and generally nervous/unsettled handling, particularly on rutted or uneven road surfaces.
The Speed Six generation cars are much better than the Griffith generation and as Mrs Fish says, Nitrons are reputed to make a big improvement (I've driven many TVR's and owned a Griffith 500, but I've never had the opportunity to drive a Nitron equipped example, so I can't comment personally), but the bottom line is that you will need to be brave bordering on foolhardy if you expect to be able to hustle it down country lanes at the sort of speeds a modern hot hatch is capable of.
Sorry, but if you wanted to drive fast on twisty roads, you should have bought a Lotus.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 10th February 13:12
Perhaps this could be MOVED to the Tuscan forum.
I've got a 2001 Tuscan, and setup is all important. My original shocks were regular Tuscan shocks, and when 2 started leaking, I had TuscanS shocks fitted. Both were fine.
Different tyres made a huge difference. Bridgestone S02 were simply awesome in the dry, with fantastic feedback and confidence, but with a 35 section profile made driving very harsh. S03 were not as confidence inspiring, but still very happy with them. Now on Toyo Proxes, which are equally good.
But....the initial bedding in period on all the tyres was buttock clenchingly scary, I felt like I was losing control above 70, no matter what the surface. Took a good few hundred miles for them to settle down, then they were great.
Next, get it PROPERLY setup with a full laser geometry done by an expert with the correct settings for the Tuscan. Naturally I use Racing Green TVR, but they are a little far from you. As well as a geometry setup, get the wheels properly balanced, including positioning the tyre in the best location around the rim.
All of this makes a massive difference. I'd suggest trying the above, before going for an aftermarket solution...which is no doubt better quality kit, but pretty costly.
Anything else, just ask. Oh, and by the way, I'm not in any way an expert on these matters and couldn't tell the difference between the various tyres I've had....but I can tell the differnce after a geometry setup....and those who know me, know that I do like to press on when possible
HTH,
LB
I've got a 2001 Tuscan, and setup is all important. My original shocks were regular Tuscan shocks, and when 2 started leaking, I had TuscanS shocks fitted. Both were fine.
Different tyres made a huge difference. Bridgestone S02 were simply awesome in the dry, with fantastic feedback and confidence, but with a 35 section profile made driving very harsh. S03 were not as confidence inspiring, but still very happy with them. Now on Toyo Proxes, which are equally good.
But....the initial bedding in period on all the tyres was buttock clenchingly scary, I felt like I was losing control above 70, no matter what the surface. Took a good few hundred miles for them to settle down, then they were great.
Next, get it PROPERLY setup with a full laser geometry done by an expert with the correct settings for the Tuscan. Naturally I use Racing Green TVR, but they are a little far from you. As well as a geometry setup, get the wheels properly balanced, including positioning the tyre in the best location around the rim.
All of this makes a massive difference. I'd suggest trying the above, before going for an aftermarket solution...which is no doubt better quality kit, but pretty costly.
Anything else, just ask. Oh, and by the way, I'm not in any way an expert on these matters and couldn't tell the difference between the various tyres I've had....but I can tell the differnce after a geometry setup....and those who know me, know that I do like to press on when possible
HTH,
LB
Sam_68 said:
At risk of being labelled a **** along with Cobra Kid, TADTS.
TVR's are notorious for tramlining and generally nervous/unsettled handling, particularly on rutted or uneven road surfaces.
The Speed Six generation cars are much better than the Griffith generation and as Mrs Fish says, Nitrons are reputed to make a big improvement (I've driven many TVR's and owned a Griffith 500, but I've never had the opportunity to drive a Nitron equipped example, so I can't comment personally), but the bottom line is that you will need to be brave bordering on foolhardy if you expect to be able to hustle it down country lanes at the sort of speeds a modern hot hatch is capable of.
Sorry, but if you wanted to drive fast on twisty roads, you should have bought a Lotus.
TVR's are notorious for tramlining and generally nervous/unsettled handling, particularly on rutted or uneven road surfaces.
The Speed Six generation cars are much better than the Griffith generation and as Mrs Fish says, Nitrons are reputed to make a big improvement (I've driven many TVR's and owned a Griffith 500, but I've never had the opportunity to drive a Nitron equipped example, so I can't comment personally), but the bottom line is that you will need to be brave bordering on foolhardy if you expect to be able to hustle it down country lanes at the sort of speeds a modern hot hatch is capable of.
Sorry, but if you wanted to drive fast on twisty roads, you should have bought a Lotus.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 10th February 13:12
Well I don't know about being labelled a ****, but you do talk a load of tosh.
I see you've got one of the best handling cars of all time so ten out of ten for that, but (a) your Griff must have been badly set up, and (b) until you've driven a Cerbera, T350, Sagaris, a later Tuscan or even a well set up Griffith or Chimaera you simply don't know what you're talking about.
And before you ask, yes I have driven all those both on and off the track.
They simply don't 'all do that'.
In any event,a decent hot hatch may give my Cerbera a run for the money on bends, but it won't outbrake it, and I'd only need a quarter of a mile staight to promptly dispatch it - so I will actually 'hustle down country lanes' in most a to b situations substantially quicker. Ask my brother in his Elan Plus 2 while chasing me between Southrepps and Norwich.
its suprising the amount of people that drive round with there tyres running down to the canvas on the inside edges, and tyre pressures that are completly wrong! check the obvious things first, but tuscans do wander around terribly. check your shocks too, basically if you can push the corner down without much force, its knackered!
dempsey said:
Sam_68 said:
Sorry, but if you wanted to drive fast on twisty roads, you should have bought a Lotus.
Well I don't know about being labelled a ****, but you do talk a load of tosh.
I see you've got one of the best handling cars of all time so ten out of ten for that...
I've been fortunate enough to have owned or driven many of the best handling cars of all time, including most Lotuses, Caterhams, Westfields, Sylvas, Nobles, Porsche Boxters & 911's, plus assorted single seaters and sports racers. Sadly, I can't count the Griffith, or any other TVR I've driven, among them.
dempsey said:
...but (a) your Griff must have been badly set up...
I used to do suspension set-up professionally, as part of my living, though I don't have time these days. I checked the Griffith against factory specs myself then, having found nothing amiss, took it to RT Racing in Sheffield, because I simply couldn't believe that it was as bad as it was. Richard's opinion was that it was perfectly normal for a Griffith and felt fine to him.
dempsey said:
...and (b) until you've driven a Cerbera, T350, Sagaris, a later Tuscan or even a well set up Griffith or Chimaera you simply don't know what you're talking about.
I've not driven a Cerbera or a Saggyarse... I'm prepared to believe that the Cerbera is more manageable because of its longer wheelbase and the Saggy was a big step forward by all accounts. I have driven T350's and later Tuscans and, as stated above, my Griffith was well set-up. The Griff was fine on the track, but borderline lethal in road use, especially on uneven country lanes. The T350 and Tuscan were a big improvement, largely due to better damping and the relative lack of torque from the Speed Six engine, but they were still a bad joke by the standards of current state-of-the-art.
Dempsey said:
And before you ask, yes I have driven all those both on and off the track.
Ah, but have you similar experience of decent handling cars against which to measure the standards of the TVR's?
Dempsey said:
...ask my brother in his Elan Plus 2 while chasing me between Southrepps and Norwich.
Thanks for that. Not heard anything so funny in a long time! Cheered up my weekend no end!! Let me get this right... your brother, driving the family version of a car introduced over 40 yeads ago, equipped with a 1600cc (what, 118bhp?) engine and running on 165 section tyres, struggles to keep up with you driving a 4.5 litre, lightweight, Red Rose spec. Cerbera, and you see it as a source of PRIDE??!!
Like, WOW... with a bit more practice, you might even be able to beat serious performance machinery like Golf diesels!
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 10th February 19:11
Sam68,
I'm not going to engage in sniping further, for the reason that I posted in the first place -
sweeping statements like 'TADTS' are ignorant uninformed cheap shots and the people that post them are usually less than objective.
My only point was that the tedious 'no TVRs can handle' and 'a hot hatch will trounce them' type of assertions are simply not true.
By the way, Plus 2's are generally acknowleged as slightly better handling then the standard Elans; the big valve models properly set up are +135bhp with a power to weight ratio better than a lot of hot hatches. Surprised you were unaware of this.
If you're down my neck of the woods I'd love a ride in your Sprint, still one of the best looking cars ever in my view.
I'm not going to engage in sniping further, for the reason that I posted in the first place -
sweeping statements like 'TADTS' are ignorant uninformed cheap shots and the people that post them are usually less than objective.
My only point was that the tedious 'no TVRs can handle' and 'a hot hatch will trounce them' type of assertions are simply not true.
By the way, Plus 2's are generally acknowleged as slightly better handling then the standard Elans; the big valve models properly set up are +135bhp with a power to weight ratio better than a lot of hot hatches. Surprised you were unaware of this.
If you're down my neck of the woods I'd love a ride in your Sprint, still one of the best looking cars ever in my view.
I don't know if this helps, but I found my 97 Griff 500 completely scary, two hands on the wheel at all times, tramlining was atrocious, and any decent depresion in the road at speed, launched it hedgebound. I had it set up at the factory allthough some settings were slightly out, it was as near enough. So no improvement there then, so I was prepared to accept TADTS and just get to grips with it. So I poly bushed the front end..... still no improvement. Then I changed the tyres from Bridgestone SO3s all round to SO2s on the rear and Goodyear GDS3s on the front, WOW what a difference it felt calm grippy and very relaxed to drive. So for the sake of a set of tyres I now have a car I adore instead of one I wanted rid of, It's still excitingly scary with the loud pedal down though 
I don't know if the same tyre issues happen on Tuscans maybe if you're on 18" spiders 16" spiders or 17" raceline wheels with larger profile tyres would make it less skittish?
Cheers OZ
I don't know if the same tyre issues happen on Tuscans maybe if you're on 18" spiders 16" spiders or 17" raceline wheels with larger profile tyres would make it less skittish?
Cheers OZ
dempsey said:
sweeping statements like 'TADTS' are ignorant uninformed cheap shots and the people that post them are usually less than objective.
My only point was that the tedious 'no TVRs can handle' and 'a hot hatch will trounce them' type of assertions are simply not true.
My only point was that the tedious 'no TVRs can handle' and 'a hot hatch will trounce them' type of assertions are simply not true.
I'm sorry you don't find my comments objective, but the truth is that on challenging (twisty) roads with imperfect surfaces (ie. most UK minor roads) a well driven hot hatch of the latest generation will trounce a Tuscan, unless the Tuscan driver is willing to take absurd risks. It may be unpalatable to you, but TVR's have always tended to have far more power than handling and their suspension and damping set-up are deeply flawed.
I'm not anti-TVR, but neither do I have rose tinted glasses.
Lotuses have excellent handling, but mediocre power and (with the exception of the Elise generation) questionable reliability. The fact that I enjoy their good points does not prevent me acknowledging their failings.
TVR's look gorgeous, have great interiors, make a fabulous noise and go like the wind in a straight line or on perfect road surfaces. But fine handling?
dempsey said:
By the way, Plus 2's are generally acknowleged as slightly better handling than the standard Elans
You will see from my profile that I've owned a couple of Plus 2's in the past, so I'm not exactly unfamiliar with them!
People regularly confuse handling with grip. The Plus 2 has slightly more grip than the Elan, due to its wider track (hence lower lateral weight transfer) and bigger tyres (though the track and tyres are offset to some extent by the greater weight, so the difference isn't massive). As to handling, it's horses for courses. The Plus 2 is slightly more manageable in the hands of a novice for the same reason your Cerbera is more predictable than the Griffith - it has a longer wheelbase and higher polar moment - but due to its larger dimensions and greater weight, it is slightly less agile.
dempsey said:
the big valve models properly set up are +135bhp with a power to weight ratio better than a lot of hot hatches. Surprised you were unaware of this.
Granny and egg sucking? I took a stab at 118bhp 'cos that is the standard spec of most Plus 2's... you didn't actually state what model your brother has.
The '130' bit of the Plus 2S/130 nomenclature was Lotus marketing hype. I can say this with some confidence because I've heard it from the lips of Lotus' Marketing Director at the time, Graham Arnold. The Big Valve in standard spec, properly set up, produces about what the factory claimed for it... 126bhp. It is relatively easy to tune (cams and mild head work) for about 145bhp and the engine in my car is probably producing a little more than that (QED 420 cams, but pretty special ultra-big valve head built by Brian Hart, the F1 engine builder, as a factory development engine). In other words, a really good roadgoing Plus 2 Big Valve might be expected to produce considerably less than half the power your Cerbera ought to be producing. If you are daft enough to believe TVR's power claims, then a 'normal' Big Valve produces less than a third of the 4.5 litre's output.
I don't dispute the handling prowess of the Plus 2... as stated above, they are as good as the 2 seater Elan, which is itself justifiably legendary.
But I would repeat that what Elans have is handling. What they don't have much of, by modern standards, is grip. I bought my Sprint specifically because it would drift round corners balanced on the throttle at a speed most mundane modern saloons will go round on rails. It's called having fun at sensible speeds.
Again, you may find it unpalatable, but if your brother can even come close to keeping up with a 4.5 litre Red Rose Cerbera in an Elan Plus 2, there is a big problem somewhere... either with the car or with the driver. The Cerbera may have typical, less-than-perfect TVR handling, but it has a massive advantage in grip, power and brakes.
I'm afraid your original comment comparing your Cerb to your brother's Plus 2 only serves to prove the point... if a modern, 4.5 litre 350+ bhp lightweight sports coupe on modern tyres cannot annihilate a 35-year, old 1600cc sports coupe, no matter how good the older car was in its day, then there is something seriously wrong.
I trust my response is sufficently detailed that you don't find it 'sweeping'?
Edited by Sam_68 on Sunday 11th February 12:13
bigredtuscan said:
hi out there can any one help me befor i end up in a ditch when going fast (not that i would )the front end seems to go all over the place and the steering goes very light . any help please cheers PJ
Oh good grief, Sam and Demsey, FFS
GROW UP ! and try and help this poor chap like the other have been trying to do.
p.s. I know I'm going to regret this but what's TADTS ?
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