TVR; state of health?
Discussion
Hi guys, I just wanted to know what people on here think about TVR's ability to remain in business, in it's current guise, in the long term. Or have they bitten off more than they can chew re: engines, electrical thingys, customer service issues, that are often presented on these forums?
Disclaimer: This is not TVR bashing. I love them and their cars... but my piggy bank isn't big enough to buy one yet!
Disclaimer: This is not TVR bashing. I love them and their cars... but my piggy bank isn't big enough to buy one yet!
If you had asked about 2 years to 18 months ago then you could have argued that things were looking shakey. However, have to say that nearly 2 years down the line they are in pretty good health. As with almost all businesses they probably need more money (who doesnt), but have to say that they seem to have a sustainable business - just need to ensure that they get some aspects of it 'right'.
So all this stuff about posting late accounts and hitting a brick wall with sales is pretty much irrelevant. They have managed to launch two new models (T350 and Tamora) with their dropped sales volumes. Profitability is high(ish) and they have committed to Le Mans this year - though this is a loss leader if I have ever heard of one....
Cheers,
Paul
So all this stuff about posting late accounts and hitting a brick wall with sales is pretty much irrelevant. They have managed to launch two new models (T350 and Tamora) with their dropped sales volumes. Profitability is high(ish) and they have committed to Le Mans this year - though this is a loss leader if I have ever heard of one....
Cheers,
Paul
pbrettle said: and they have committed to Le Mans this year - though this is a loss leader if I have ever heard of one....
Sounds like you're reading from Neil Anderson's (TVR Chassis guru) scrpt. I remember him being a similarly scathing about the 24hrs a year or so back - during the series of lectures he gave on the Speed 12 engineering development - when I, and a fellow TVR/Le Mans nut button-holed him on the subject.
It is still one of the highest profile motor races in the world, frequented by tens of thousands of potential customers, and with big PR opportunities if they can keep the T440 running...
I'd say there's certainly still a perceived problem with the speed 6, as far as the second hand market goes, which despite what anyone says, is showing poor residuals. The sports car buying public clearly needs a bit more convincing that all is well with TVRs power plant, to encourage better new and second hand sales.
I agree with Digga...
New sales are healthy according to the folks I talk to, and you only have to see the number of Tuscans and Tamoras on the road to see that it's not all flannel, and if the PR from an event like Le Mans is harnessed correctly the order books should swell further.
I share the same sentiment regarding the second hand market as well. I'm currently in the 'shall I shan't I' dilema with second hand Tuscans, but the asking prices have fallen that much they are getting hard to resist.
DC
New sales are healthy according to the folks I talk to, and you only have to see the number of Tuscans and Tamoras on the road to see that it's not all flannel, and if the PR from an event like Le Mans is harnessed correctly the order books should swell further.
I share the same sentiment regarding the second hand market as well. I'm currently in the 'shall I shan't I' dilema with second hand Tuscans, but the asking prices have fallen that much they are getting hard to resist.
DC
I think they are getting to the point where they need to re-invent themselves, in order to make progress. Do they go mainstream a la Porsche, or do they retain the media image of glorified kit cars? The former option means fewer models in more specific areas, the latter means we will still be able to afford them.
Until they put traction control and anti-lock brakes as stock items, they will continue to inhabit a twilight world of interesting sports car curios, but not get taken seriously.
My belief is that they will drop the Tamora, and Tuscan, introduce a T350 rag top, bring in an updated 2+2, and keep the T440 high end performance car. How many models can one company pack into one niche sector?
The good thing is, the T350 is selling really well, the bad news is the Tamora is dead in the water in terms of sales. Tuscans appear to be selling well, on the back of increased publicity, but how long will that last?
However, Peter Wheeler is the boss, and his unpredictability is what makes us alternately happy and boiling mad. Long may it continue!!
Until they put traction control and anti-lock brakes as stock items, they will continue to inhabit a twilight world of interesting sports car curios, but not get taken seriously.
My belief is that they will drop the Tamora, and Tuscan, introduce a T350 rag top, bring in an updated 2+2, and keep the T440 high end performance car. How many models can one company pack into one niche sector?
The good thing is, the T350 is selling really well, the bad news is the Tamora is dead in the water in terms of sales. Tuscans appear to be selling well, on the back of increased publicity, but how long will that last?
However, Peter Wheeler is the boss, and his unpredictability is what makes us alternately happy and boiling mad. Long may it continue!!
Dai Capp said:
you only have to see the number of Tuscans and Tamoras on the road to see that it's not all flannel
Have to question this...I live in SW London, which is meant to be one of TVR's best sales areas, and I can count on one hand the number of Tamoras I've seen out and about and seeing a Tuscan is still a rare sight.
Also, tuscan_s, yes this has been talked about before and will be many times again, just like which team will win the cup/league and are politicians w*nkers?...
As said, 2 years ago the strategy of using their own engines looked much more risky than it does now. Hats off to them for pulling it off. Many of the same old quality issues persist, but even there progress seems to be being made. And the handling of the new models seems to have really made a big step forward. I assume one benefit of their manufacturing technique is that it is not particularly expensive to abandon manufacturing a model. Some jigs and moulds get wheeled into a far corner to collect dust, but it's not like a conventional production line is made obsolete. Looks to me (my opinion being unencumbered by any actual information) like they are in pretty good shape.
I know we're all TVR enthusiasts and keen to see TVR prosper and continue indefinitely. However, some people's view of what contributes to a sound financial footing for a company is through rose tinted spectacles. As an example, you sometimes find that companies which expand rapidly go bust - they are profitable but expansion usually requires more cash for working capital and without it, the company can't meet its liabilities and goes bust.
As speculation, and it can only be speculation, TVR have done one or two things recently (launch of new models, Le Mans entry etc) which appear to indicate that lack of cash flow is not an immediate threat.
Which is nice.
Looking at their last accounts they did seem to hold an enormous amount of stock. Judging by the fact that you now struggle to get certain spares for cars as recent as the Griff, perhaps they have sorted that out and are running a tighter ship financially.
Off to count some more beans.....
As speculation, and it can only be speculation, TVR have done one or two things recently (launch of new models, Le Mans entry etc) which appear to indicate that lack of cash flow is not an immediate threat.
Which is nice.
Looking at their last accounts they did seem to hold an enormous amount of stock. Judging by the fact that you now struggle to get certain spares for cars as recent as the Griff, perhaps they have sorted that out and are running a tighter ship financially.
Off to count some more beans.....
I think TVR need to continue to do what they do best and that is get to market in very short lead times stylishly exciting and raw sports cars. Should they try to offer up to the levels of sophistication offered by other more production based marques then in my considered opinion they are going to struggle, the levels of investment in terms of people, facilities, development time will drag them down. As i understand it from some of their people they make a healthy profit each of their sales, ( don't ask for a figure, but higher than the norm in the car business),by capitalising on their abilty to bring product to the market in such a nimble manner.
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff