RE: Uncertainty hangs over TVR
Monday 26th February 2007
TVR factory to remain closed?Smolensky seems to be implementing the same plan as he was prior to the hiatus, and plans to move the company abroad. The company has issued this statement:
Uncertainty hangs over TVR
Smolenski buy back angers workers and local MPs
Uncertainty hangs over TVR as owners, workers and locals mull over the ramifications of the buy-back by the Blackpool firm's previous owner, Russian millionaire Nikolai Smolenski.
The main production company, which owned the physical assets and TVR's intellectual property, went into administration last year. An auction was held and a number of sealed envelope bids received, including one well-publicised offer from Rochdale-based sports car maker and engine designer Al Melling. Melling was co-creator of TVR's AJP engine, which eventually became the Speed Six.
However, it's emerged that Smolenski's own company also bid for TVR and has won, as PistonHeads reported last Friday when the results were announced. The amount paid is undisclosed.
Those most immediately affected are the company's ex-workers, who will be left with a bitter taste in their mouths -- they spent months waiting to hear their fate, and were eventually made redundant. However, whether they will ever receive any redundancy payments remains to be seen. As a result, local MPs have already asked for a government inquiry into the circumstances surrounding TVR's demise.
The firm's debts mean that ex-workers, suppliers and dealers are unlikely to receive much if anything. The workers' union reckoned that Smolenski is likely to be the main creditor but that he seemed uninterested in the workforce, and that they have been bounced out by some clever manoeuvring.
TVR factory to remain closed?
"The assets of Blackpool Automotive, the former production division of TVR, have been reacquired by TVR owner Nikolai Smolenski after it went into administration at the end of last year. The acquisition secures the marque's trademarks and intellectual property rights, which were tied up in the company.
"Production of the famous sports cars can now resume as planned at a more sophisticated plant in Europe. The move will enable TVR to increase its volumes and to achieve type approvals for global markets.
"Some essential component manufacturing will remain in the UK, including the engines and drivetrains being developed by specialist partner Ricardo. The design team and office personnel will also remain in the country in a new headquarters, which will in time also house some production and servicing facilities.
"The consolidated range of current TVRs, now comprising the Sagaris, Tuscan S and Tuscan S convertible, will be joined by the Typhoon, a 600 bhp supercharged supercar set to be unveiled later in the year. Orders for the current models are still being taken by the network of authorised dealers."
PHers have made their views known on the forums: "As a strategy I doubt it was cheaper than paying statutory redundancy to the staff. But it was almost certainly cheaper than paying off the firm's debts," said PHer Don.
Others have expressed anger and frustration at the lack of information both within and outside the company, while some argue that the company would have gone under no matter who bought it from Peter Wheeler in 2004.
Discussion
This seems to me to be a very sad state of affairs all round. Smolenski has proved himself to be a devious and skanky business shark, who through sharp practices and smart planning has ducked out of his responsibilities to Ex- TVR workers and suppliers.
My guess is Smolenski new exactly what was going to be happening to TVR from day one, when he first originally purchased TVR, and has followed a well planned and executed course of action that over time that has led to this outcome. Smolenski new excatly what he was doing this time, and has done business in a manner that in my opinion merits a revocation of his bid, as this is not the way to do business in the UK, or to shaft GB workers!!
If this is how they do business in Russia...they can bloody well keep it!! Absolutely disgusting!!
Edited to add: This action has well and truly kicked Ex-TVR workers not only while they're down on the ground, but while badly brused and bleeding too. I think this is a perfectly good reason for British buyers to boycott future TVR purchases in favour of something else British. I hope that happens and sends a message to Smolenski that says " Get out of Britian, and stay out!! Sell your cars somewhere else!!"
My guess is Smolenski new exactly what was going to be happening to TVR from day one, when he first originally purchased TVR, and has followed a well planned and executed course of action that over time that has led to this outcome. Smolenski new excatly what he was doing this time, and has done business in a manner that in my opinion merits a revocation of his bid, as this is not the way to do business in the UK, or to shaft GB workers!!
If this is how they do business in Russia...they can bloody well keep it!! Absolutely disgusting!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 26th February 14:52
Edited to add: This action has well and truly kicked Ex-TVR workers not only while they're down on the ground, but while badly brused and bleeding too. I think this is a perfectly good reason for British buyers to boycott future TVR purchases in favour of something else British. I hope that happens and sends a message to Smolenski that says " Get out of Britian, and stay out!! Sell your cars somewhere else!!"
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 26th February 15:06
I suspect that if NS had retained the intellectual property rights by the just switching their ownership to the company he kept, he could then have been challenged in law.
By bidding and buying in the open market, he has legitimised his ownership at little real cost to himself.
Any lawyers care to confirm my suspicions?
By bidding and buying in the open market, he has legitimised his ownership at little real cost to himself.
Any lawyers care to confirm my suspicions?
ScoobieWRX said:
This seems to me to be a very sad state of affairs all round. Smolenski has proved himself to be a devious and skanky business shark, who through sharp practices and smart planning has ducked out of his responsibilities to Ex- TVR workers and suppliers.
My guess is Smolenski new exactly what was going to be happening to TVR from day one, when he first originally purchased TVR, and has followed a well planned and executed course of action that over time that has led to this outcome. Smolenski new excatly what he was doing this time, and has done business in a manner that in my opinion merits a revocation of his bid, as this is not the way to do business in the UK, or to shaft GB workers!!
If this is how they do business in Russia...they can bloody well keep it!! Absolutely disgusting!!
Edited to add: This action has well and truly kicked Ex-TVR workers not only while they're down on the ground, but while badly brused and bleeding too. I think this is a perfectly good reason for British buyers to boycott future TVR purchases in favour of something else British. I hope that happens and sends a message to Smolenski that says " Get out of Britian, and stay out!! Sell your cars somewhere else!!"
My guess is Smolenski new exactly what was going to be happening to TVR from day one, when he first originally purchased TVR, and has followed a well planned and executed course of action that over time that has led to this outcome. Smolenski new excatly what he was doing this time, and has done business in a manner that in my opinion merits a revocation of his bid, as this is not the way to do business in the UK, or to shaft GB workers!!
If this is how they do business in Russia...they can bloody well keep it!! Absolutely disgusting!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 26th February 14:52
Edited to add: This action has well and truly kicked Ex-TVR workers not only while they're down on the ground, but while badly brused and bleeding too. I think this is a perfectly good reason for British buyers to boycott future TVR purchases in favour of something else British. I hope that happens and sends a message to Smolenski that says " Get out of Britian, and stay out!! Sell your cars somewhere else!!"
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 26th February 15:06
I think you give him too much credit, i dont think he has the brains, more like his surrounding team of accountants and financial advisors & such have devised this plot to bail him out of the shit and to stop him squandering anymore pocket money
Edited by v8tvr on Monday 26th February 15:36
He has lost the UK market - if the Italians ever make a Sagaris - the story will be re - told to passionate italian enthusiasts - this new market will not be happy to have a name that has been spoiled - in summary a balls up! He can only have bought it back to avoid paying dealers and the workforce with the aim of selling the name on - shocking but probably legal.
For us Brits with TVR's - I have a Tuscan which I bought new in 2,003 and use daily - we can put our faith in TVR Power who will keep us moving for years to come.
NormanD said:
This is an often recurring way of getting out of business debts.
There should be a law that stops buybacks. All the creditors are left footing the costs and the original owners smiling all the way to the bank.
There should be a law that stops buybacks. All the creditors are left footing the costs and the original owners smiling all the way to the bank.
Whilst the first parts of the above are true I cannot imagine any Russians are presently smiling. They have lost all the money given to Peter Wheeler, plus all the money spent since the takeover and now they will have to pay the administrators whatever the "undisclosed sum" is, in real money, to get the remains back.
Personally I cannot see why they have bothered. It must be like a gambler going double or quits, again and again, without the actual quitting bit.
ianlittlefair said:
He can only have bought it back to avoid paying dealers and the workforce with the aim of selling the name on - shocking but probably legal
In a strange way, for the TVR marque, I hope this is true as at least the name can be sold and the company be born again without this dipstick at the helm!
Im just truely gutted for the former workers waiting for a payout
ScoobieWRX said:
This seems to me to be a very sad state of affairs all round. Smolenski has proved himself to be a devious and skanky business shark, who through sharp practices and smart planning has ducked out of his responsibilities to Ex- TVR workers and suppliers.
My guess is Smolenski new exactly what was going to be happening to TVR from day one, when he first originally purchased TVR, and has followed a well planned and executed course of action that over time that has led to this outcome. Smolenski new excatly what he was doing this time, and has done business in a manner that in my opinion merits a revocation of his bid, as this is not the way to do business in the UK, or to shaft GB workers!!
If this is how they do business in Russia...they can bloody well keep it!! Absolutely disgusting!!
Edited to add: This action has well and truly kicked Ex-TVR workers not only while they're down on the ground, but while badly brused and bleeding too. I think this is a perfectly good reason for British buyers to boycott future TVR purchases in favour of something else British. I hope that happens and sends a message to Smolenski that says " Get out of Britian, and stay out!! Sell your cars somewhere else!!"
My guess is Smolenski new exactly what was going to be happening to TVR from day one, when he first originally purchased TVR, and has followed a well planned and executed course of action that over time that has led to this outcome. Smolenski new excatly what he was doing this time, and has done business in a manner that in my opinion merits a revocation of his bid, as this is not the way to do business in the UK, or to shaft GB workers!!
If this is how they do business in Russia...they can bloody well keep it!! Absolutely disgusting!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 26th February 14:52
Edited to add: This action has well and truly kicked Ex-TVR workers not only while they're down on the ground, but while badly brused and bleeding too. I think this is a perfectly good reason for British buyers to boycott future TVR purchases in favour of something else British. I hope that happens and sends a message to Smolenski that says " Get out of Britian, and stay out!! Sell your cars somewhere else!!"
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 26th February 15:06
Although i agree with most of ur points, i dont think we should boycott TVR products, it wont affect NS, he'll jus asset strip,sell off TVR to the chinese and run away like the phoenix 4 did.
MidnightDriver said:
ScoobieWRX said:
This seems to me to be a very sad state of affairs all round. Smolenski has proved himself to be a devious and skanky business shark, who through sharp practices and smart planning has ducked out of his responsibilities to Ex- TVR workers and suppliers.
My guess is Smolenski new exactly what was going to be happening to TVR from day one, when he first originally purchased TVR, and has followed a well planned and executed course of action that over time that has led to this outcome. Smolenski new excatly what he was doing this time, and has done business in a manner that in my opinion merits a revocation of his bid, as this is not the way to do business in the UK, or to shaft GB workers!!
If this is how they do business in Russia...they can bloody well keep it!! Absolutely disgusting!!
Edited to add: This action has well and truly kicked Ex-TVR workers not only while they're down on the ground, but while badly brused and bleeding too. I think this is a perfectly good reason for British buyers to boycott future TVR purchases in favour of something else British. I hope that happens and sends a message to Smolenski that says " Get out of Britian, and stay out!! Sell your cars somewhere else!!"
My guess is Smolenski new exactly what was going to be happening to TVR from day one, when he first originally purchased TVR, and has followed a well planned and executed course of action that over time that has led to this outcome. Smolenski new excatly what he was doing this time, and has done business in a manner that in my opinion merits a revocation of his bid, as this is not the way to do business in the UK, or to shaft GB workers!!
If this is how they do business in Russia...they can bloody well keep it!! Absolutely disgusting!!
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 26th February 14:52
Edited to add: This action has well and truly kicked Ex-TVR workers not only while they're down on the ground, but while badly brused and bleeding too. I think this is a perfectly good reason for British buyers to boycott future TVR purchases in favour of something else British. I hope that happens and sends a message to Smolenski that says " Get out of Britian, and stay out!! Sell your cars somewhere else!!"
Edited by ScoobieWRX on Monday 26th February 15:06
Although i agree with most of ur points, i dont think we should boycott TVR products, it wont affect NS, he'll jus asset strip,sell off TVR to the chinese and run away like the phoenix 4 did.
Asset strip? The only asset left is the name, which is worth nothing like the £50m NS must have spent to date on his TVR venture.
I cannot understand why people hold on to the belief that NS is a boy genius working to some kind of masterplan. He got stiffed by PW when he bought TVR, spent millions keeping it afloat, then thought he had finally offloaded the debt (which was almost all owed to him anyway), only to find that he had left the only remaining asset behind (doh). So he had to spend even more money to buy back the name, which he had already paid far too much for.
And what has he got now? No premises, no staff, no customers, he hasn't even got the rights to the lucrative spare parts market because he had already sold that.
It's a cock up, not a conspiracy ffs.
NS get out, we did not want you and do not want you here. Go buy and ruin something in your own country. You will never have the balls or the passion to make it work. At least we had got used to the idea that we proud TVR owners would still keep the mark going, with a hope that eventually some-one with some respect for the workers and the TVR name would pick up the threads like was rumoured. Now we really feel like you have spat on us all, don`t you dare walk in to my boozer
NormanD said:
This is an often recurring way of getting out of business debts.
There should be a law that stops buybacks. All the creditors are left footing the costs and the original owners smiling all the way to the bank.
There should be a law that stops buybacks. All the creditors are left footing the costs and the original owners smiling all the way to the bank.
I would agree that this is what he is up to. I worked for a startup in the past 50% owned by Scientific Generics (a cambridge based tech consultancy). They forced us into administration (in a way we conviently can't prove!) and then bought back the core IPR for £100k (a lot less than the £2m they were supposed to invest to prevent us going bust). It was bascially a con to get rid of the employees and get out of the remaining building rent.
I sympathise with the TVR guys - I have no care for the TVR name - hopefully someone like Melling will set up nearby anyway and take on some of the skilled workers.
eein said:
NormanD said:
This is an often recurring way of getting out of business debts.
There should be a law that stops buybacks. All the creditors are left footing the costs and the original owners smiling all the way to the bank.
There should be a law that stops buybacks. All the creditors are left footing the costs and the original owners smiling all the way to the bank.
I would agree that this is what he is up to. I worked for a startup in the past 50% owned by Scientific Generics (a cambridge based tech consultancy). They forced us into administration (in a way we conviently can't prove!) and then bought back the core IPR for £100k (a lot less than the £2m they were supposed to invest to prevent us going bust). It was bascially a con to get rid of the employees and get out of the remaining building rent.
I sympathise with the TVR guys - I have no care for the TVR name - hopefully someone like Melling will set up nearby anyway and take on some of the skilled workers.
I think "con" is rather a strong word here. Here's an example, without rhetoric:
1. You and I start up a business using some technology I've developed. We own 50% each. We're both in it to make money.
2. You spend the £1m, develop a product, and then say to me "oh, but, by the way, I'll need another £2m to keep the company afloat, but we've got no customers, and the company will go bust if you don't."
3. I say "no thanks", and don't give you any money. Nobody else does, either.
4. The company goes bust.
5. I buy the assets from the administrator in a public bidding process.
Err, what's wrong with that? Should the assets of a bankrupt company not be sold to pay off the debt? Should they not be sold to the highest bidder?
If there was no binding contract for the £2m, then there was no binding contract. Don't bet the house without a cast-iron guarantee. It is no use saying "oh, but they did this, that and the other". Life is harsh, people make business decisions for the good of their own business, not for the good of yours or anybody else's.
NormanD said:
This is an often recurring way of getting out of business debts.
There should be a law that stops buybacks. All the creditors are left footing the costs and the original owners smiling all the way to the bank.
There should be a law that stops buybacks. All the creditors are left footing the costs and the original owners smiling all the way to the bank.
And why do those debts exist? Because idiots lend to companies without adequate guarantees. Because idiots work for companies without checking their financial strength. Because everybody assumes it is somebody else's problem to do the checking.
It is really easy not to get shafted as a supplier:
- don't lend money (give credit) to a company you don't trust unless you're happy to lose it
- learn about your customers, meet them if you like
- always get credit insurance likewise
- at the first sign of trouble, bail out hard - sit in their office until you get your money, start legal proceedings quickly, just get your money out before everything else goes wrong.
It is really easy not to get shafted as an employee:
- don't accept a job offer without looking at a company's financials
- don't carry on working for a company in financial difficulties
- if you do work / carry on working, make sure you have plenty of insurance
We all take risks. Working for somebody on a month-in-hand salary is always a risk. Be alive to that risk, understand it, manage it. Mother won't bail you out if you're wrong. Giving credit is the same. There's no law that says you have to give 30 days (or any days). There's no law that says you don't have to take out credit insurance.
All of this "he shafted him" stuff really does wind me up. Life is risky, but you don't have to make the risk to you worse by ignoring it.
Furthermore, if the only people to whom the assets of a company are valuable are the former owners (i.e. no better bids to the administrators), what is wrong? Most people can see the flaw in the business - it has already gone bust once!
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