Pinging / Pinking????
Discussion
Okay, this is really getting on my nerves now so i thought I'd address it with the general masses.
pre-detonation of fuel in the cylinders due to a combination of heat and compression. I looked this up many years back for a mate, and every fuel / petroleum supplier I have checked out refers to this as "knocking and pinging" but it seems that the widespread use is to call it "pinking", which makes no bloody sense at all. If pink smoke started coming out of the exhaust then I could understand it but "pinking" as a word makes no sense at all. Pinging I can understand - an audible ping, also used in radar "pinging a submarine".
Could someone please explain to me how the term "knock and ping" as used by petroleum manufacturers / vendors has been munged into this word - "pinking"?
pre-detonation of fuel in the cylinders due to a combination of heat and compression. I looked this up many years back for a mate, and every fuel / petroleum supplier I have checked out refers to this as "knocking and pinging" but it seems that the widespread use is to call it "pinking", which makes no bloody sense at all. If pink smoke started coming out of the exhaust then I could understand it but "pinking" as a word makes no sense at all. Pinging I can understand - an audible ping, also used in radar "pinging a submarine".
Could someone please explain to me how the term "knock and ping" as used by petroleum manufacturers / vendors has been munged into this word - "pinking"?
Edited by V8Cerbera on Friday 6th April 00:37
I have indeed heard such a noise. What sort of noise does the colour pink make - "plinking" is a noise but I'm unaware of a colour having a noise? An excerpt from a BP document I extracted several years back and yes, to the mechanic / petrolhead people here, I know that most of the below will be like sucking eggs. The question is - Why is it referred to as "pinking" when all of the petroleum industry seem to refer to it as "pinging" or "knocking"?
======================
Knocking and Pinging, some facts.
Part 1. Gasoline Constituency
Every gasoline based fuel has an Octane rating. The octane rating is based on the constituent makeup of the fuel. Gasoline, like Propane, Butane and Methane is a hydrocarbon based fuel. The weight of the fuel is dependant on the amount of carbon atoms in the chain. Propane, Butane and Methane have very short chains and hence are exceptionally light, having a boiling point below ambient temperature, they are (unless stored in very cold conditions) usually encountered as a gas rather than a liquid. Higher up the list are Heptane and Octane. Octane has 8 carbon molecules in it's chain and hence is quite heavy. It also withstands compression rather well, whereas Heptane is shorter and hence much lighter. Lighter hydrocarbons are somewhat worse at handling compression and will generally self ignite at lower temperatures. Common Gasoline is a mixture of Octane and Heptane, this is where the Octane rating of Gasoline is obtained from. Most pump Gasoline will be between 84 and 87% Octane and high performance Gasoline will usually be 89% Octane.
Part 2. The Engine
A four stroke petroleum engine ignites its fuel on a per cylinder basis. A stroke is defined as one complete revolution of the piston, from the bottom of the cylinder to top dead centre and then back to absolute bottom. One of the four strokes is the compression stroke, where air and Gasoline is injected into the cylinder and then compressed by the piston before being ignited by a spark. In most Gasoline motor vehicles, the compression rate is 8 to 1, this is commonly expressed as the compression ratio and may be noted as 8.1. The compression ratio is primarily controlled by the cam shaft, to which the pistons are attached. Higher profile cams are often used in performance or tuned vehicles to provide higher lift on the pistons, increasing the compression and creating a more compact and hence more powerful detonation of the fuel in the cylinder. Compression ratios of 10 or 11.1 are not uncommon.
Part 3. Compression and Early Detonation
Rapid compression causes immense heat to be generated and as we learned in Part 1, the Heptane constituent of Gasoline does not handle compression well and can self-ignite if over-compressed, similar to the way that a diesel engine operates. Gasoline engines are designed to run with the fuel being ignited at a set timing interval (the spark) and do not run well when the fuel is self-igniting before the piston has arrived at top-dead-centre as the early detonation of the Heptane slows the piston and attempts to force it back the way it just came from, this causes an audible knocking sound (often called Pinging) and causes excess stress on the cylinder, piston head and rod.
Part 4. Combatting the Knock
In order to combat the knocking caused by the early detonation we just learned about in Part 3, it is recommended that vehicles with higher compression ratios should use fuels comtaining a higher percentage of Octane. Octane is a far more stable fuel than Heptane and therefore is considerably better suited to high compression applications. Most tuned engines will be able to run on high Octane pump Gasoline. However some vehicles will still experience knocking even on this and will need to boost the Octane rating of the fuel they use by placing additives into the fuel. Octane boosters are available from most automotive parts stores. Most of these Octane Booster additives have a constituency of Xylene or Toluene, which if you can obtain this, you can add yourself for considerably less than what the automotive stores charge. An example of the effectiveness of these can be seen below:
89Octane Pump Gas vs Toluene
90/10 Mix: circa.91.2 Octane
80/20 Mix: circa.93.4 Octane
89Octane Pump Gas vs Xylene
90/10 Mix: circa.91.5 Octane
80/20 Mix: circa.94 Octane
======================
EDIT: www.dictionary.com:
1 result for: pinking
pink 2 (pĭngk) Pronunciation Key
tr.v. pinked, pink·ing, pinks
1. To stab lightly with a pointed weapon; prick.
2. To decorate with a perforated pattern.
3. To cut with pinking shears.
[Middle English pingen, pinken, to push, prick, from Old English pyngan, from Latin pungere; see peuk- in Indo-European roots.]
2 results for: pinging
ping 1 (pĭng) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. A sharp, high-pitched sound, as that made by a bullet striking metal.
2. See knock.
intr.v. pinged, ping·ing, pings
To make a sharp, high-pitched, metallic sound.
======================
Knocking and Pinging, some facts.
Part 1. Gasoline Constituency
Every gasoline based fuel has an Octane rating. The octane rating is based on the constituent makeup of the fuel. Gasoline, like Propane, Butane and Methane is a hydrocarbon based fuel. The weight of the fuel is dependant on the amount of carbon atoms in the chain. Propane, Butane and Methane have very short chains and hence are exceptionally light, having a boiling point below ambient temperature, they are (unless stored in very cold conditions) usually encountered as a gas rather than a liquid. Higher up the list are Heptane and Octane. Octane has 8 carbon molecules in it's chain and hence is quite heavy. It also withstands compression rather well, whereas Heptane is shorter and hence much lighter. Lighter hydrocarbons are somewhat worse at handling compression and will generally self ignite at lower temperatures. Common Gasoline is a mixture of Octane and Heptane, this is where the Octane rating of Gasoline is obtained from. Most pump Gasoline will be between 84 and 87% Octane and high performance Gasoline will usually be 89% Octane.
Part 2. The Engine
A four stroke petroleum engine ignites its fuel on a per cylinder basis. A stroke is defined as one complete revolution of the piston, from the bottom of the cylinder to top dead centre and then back to absolute bottom. One of the four strokes is the compression stroke, where air and Gasoline is injected into the cylinder and then compressed by the piston before being ignited by a spark. In most Gasoline motor vehicles, the compression rate is 8 to 1, this is commonly expressed as the compression ratio and may be noted as 8.1. The compression ratio is primarily controlled by the cam shaft, to which the pistons are attached. Higher profile cams are often used in performance or tuned vehicles to provide higher lift on the pistons, increasing the compression and creating a more compact and hence more powerful detonation of the fuel in the cylinder. Compression ratios of 10 or 11.1 are not uncommon.
Part 3. Compression and Early Detonation
Rapid compression causes immense heat to be generated and as we learned in Part 1, the Heptane constituent of Gasoline does not handle compression well and can self-ignite if over-compressed, similar to the way that a diesel engine operates. Gasoline engines are designed to run with the fuel being ignited at a set timing interval (the spark) and do not run well when the fuel is self-igniting before the piston has arrived at top-dead-centre as the early detonation of the Heptane slows the piston and attempts to force it back the way it just came from, this causes an audible knocking sound (often called Pinging) and causes excess stress on the cylinder, piston head and rod.
Part 4. Combatting the Knock
In order to combat the knocking caused by the early detonation we just learned about in Part 3, it is recommended that vehicles with higher compression ratios should use fuels comtaining a higher percentage of Octane. Octane is a far more stable fuel than Heptane and therefore is considerably better suited to high compression applications. Most tuned engines will be able to run on high Octane pump Gasoline. However some vehicles will still experience knocking even on this and will need to boost the Octane rating of the fuel they use by placing additives into the fuel. Octane boosters are available from most automotive parts stores. Most of these Octane Booster additives have a constituency of Xylene or Toluene, which if you can obtain this, you can add yourself for considerably less than what the automotive stores charge. An example of the effectiveness of these can be seen below:
89Octane Pump Gas vs Toluene
90/10 Mix: circa.91.2 Octane
80/20 Mix: circa.93.4 Octane
89Octane Pump Gas vs Xylene
90/10 Mix: circa.91.5 Octane
80/20 Mix: circa.94 Octane
======================
EDIT: www.dictionary.com:
1 result for: pinking
pink 2 (pĭngk) Pronunciation Key
tr.v. pinked, pink·ing, pinks
1. To stab lightly with a pointed weapon; prick.
2. To decorate with a perforated pattern.
3. To cut with pinking shears.
[Middle English pingen, pinken, to push, prick, from Old English pyngan, from Latin pungere; see peuk- in Indo-European roots.]
2 results for: pinging
ping 1 (pĭng) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. A sharp, high-pitched sound, as that made by a bullet striking metal.
2. See knock.
intr.v. pinged, ping·ing, pings
To make a sharp, high-pitched, metallic sound.
Edited by V8Cerbera on Friday 6th April 00:43
Okay...
[Me]Scours my 1975 copy of the Oxford English Dictionary[/me]
Pink.... garden plants, sailing vessels, young salmon... nope errrr... ah here it is.
Pink: v.i. (of internal combustion engine) Knock, emit dull metallic sound from detonation of (part of) charge, due to poor quality of fuel. [app. imit.]
I stand very firmly corrected. Still doesn't sound right though - Suppose that's because I'm used to the American-English version.
[me]Promises to do better research next time[/me]
[Me]Scours my 1975 copy of the Oxford English Dictionary[/me]
Pink.... garden plants, sailing vessels, young salmon... nope errrr... ah here it is.
Pink: v.i. (of internal combustion engine) Knock, emit dull metallic sound from detonation of (part of) charge, due to poor quality of fuel. [app. imit.]
I stand very firmly corrected. Still doesn't sound right though - Suppose that's because I'm used to the American-English version.
[me]Promises to do better research next time[/me]
Edited by V8Cerbera on Friday 6th April 16:14
Rum Runner said:
Lost!. Anyway none of them are good coz in the end you get a pitted or holed piston crown .
Not a definate though. Pinking may be ok so long as it doesn't become detonation. Then you're stuffed.
Boosted.
Edited to say maybe I should rephrase the above for our american brethren.
Edited by boosted ls1 on Saturday 7th April 13:05
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