sign up to get vehicles over 10 years old tax exempt!!!!

[ianfirmstone]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ClassicRoadTax/

[leaderb]

Just a clarification, it isn't for vehicles over 10 years old, it's to advance the cut off date from 1972 - 1982. Still worth signing though.

[kmpowell]

leaderb said:

Still worth signing though.

Sorry, but I disagree.

I am by no means an eco-mentalist or a tree hugger etc, but taking the purely selfish "It'll save me a couple of hundred quid a year" attitude out of the equation, it's hardly fair when you consider how efficient and less polluting a modern Focus is compared to it's MK1/MK2 Escort equivalent from yesteryear.

Like it or not, these days we have to take a purely objective view at the current trend of motoring and thedamage it causes to the environment. I personally think that ALL cars should pay road tax, and it should be based on a multiplyer of how many miles you do a year AND how much pollution your car produces. By doing this it will allow a fair regime and level taxes out for the motorist.

What people seem to forget when they sign petitions like this is the government will tax the motorist regardless - so to make up for the lost revenue something like this would bring, they will just pile it on elsewhere. The people most likely to suffer are Joe Bloggs family car drivers who are made up of cars that are hundreds time more environmentally friendly than one from a few decades ago.

EDITED TO ADD: Reading back on what I wrote it sounds very eco-mentalist, so apologies for that - what I'm trying to say is that we will all get hit by the tax being made up elsewhere either directly or indirectly, if something like this goes through.

Edited by kmpowell on Thursday 31st May 15:21

[hollowpockets]

what he said ^^^

[tubbystu]

Surely it would be better for the tax disc to be a flat (say) £30 admin charge so MOT & insurance validity are checked annually and the remainder of the old road fund to be stuck onto petrol ?

Average mileage at 12,000 miles per annum and average economy of 35mpg = 1500 litres approx per annum. This would lead to an increase per litre of 10p for a £180 tax disc vehicle.

This way you pay by the mile and they can adjust the revenue value by how polluting the fuel is. If diesel is not this years favourite with the eco-police then it can be taxed accordingley, equally if you run a LPG, leccy, bio-fuel etc it can be taxed at a reduced eco-friendly rate.

The transport business wouldn't like it though..........

Those of us in the Super unleaded users league are going to get hit hardest I guess, but if that is what has to happen so be it.

[robbyt]

Either which way the goverment goes about road tax, the system will be abused and we will be ripped off as usual. We pay road tax which increases year in year out and we get very little for our money (so where is it all being spent) and then they now want to charge you for entering this city and that city up and down the country. The system is a joke and so is our current goverment. At least in the old days the robbers wore a mask when they stole from you

Edited by robbyt on Thursday 31st May 18:48

[hugoagogo]

tubbystu said:

Surely it would be better for the tax disc to be a flat (say) £30 admin charge so MOT & insurance validity are checked annually and the remainder of the old road fund to be stuck onto petrol ?

Average mileage at 12,000 miles per annum and average economy of 35mpg = 1500 litres approx per annum. This would lead to an increase per litre of 10p for a £180 tax disc vehicle.

This way you pay by the mile and they can adjust the revenue value by how polluting the fuel is. If diesel is not this years favourite with the eco-police then it can be taxed accordingley, equally if you run a LPG, leccy, bio-fuel etc it can be taxed at a reduced eco-friendly rate.

The transport business wouldn't like it though..........

Those of us in the Super unleaded users league are going to get hit hardest I guess, but if that is what has to happen so be it.

^this^

the only way that charges for road use and fuel use, for all road users, including foreign drivers

but adjust it down slightly and add a couple of hundred quid 'new car production' tax, driving an old mk2 escort is less polluting than building and importing a new car from wherever

Edited by hugoagogo on Thursday 31st May 19:13

[DonnyMac]

The view is that after 25 years of paying car tax the vehicle has paid its 'dues' so to speak. Another, and very sensible in my view, is that after 25 years these cars are quite probably Classics meaning they're 2nd or 3rd cars being driven very rarely usually only over the summer months; thus, it has been deemed unfair in the past that an owner of a classic car whom may drive it only half a dozen times a year with tiny mileage pays the same as a sales rep in a BMW who clocks up 75k miles a year whom has only paid his first years car tax. This is the same thinking as insurance companies asking how much mileage you do and charging accordngly.

On the tree hugging aspect, a classic car is far more eco friendly than a new car in as much that its carbon footprint has already been spent and a new car (which would take a huge amount of carbon to produce) isn't required to replace it.

Classics still need car tax, but it is free and as with anyone purchasing it they will need to produce insurance and MOT docs to get it.

Not that I cared about the money of paying for car tax, but it is nice to have a recognition that your car is a classic when you get it for free - I had a 1964 2.5 V8 Daimler for several years (same shape as the Mk2 Jags) as a third car and fourth vehicle.

[tubbystu]

DonnyMac said:

The view is that after 25 years of paying car tax the vehicle has paid its 'dues' so to speak.

But the date at which a vehicle becomes "duty-free" so to speak, doesn't change year on year. How's that work then ? 1973 is 34 years ago currently.

Charge us a nominal sum for a disc (old cars could still have this FOC if it helps......) which gives us the right to be on the road, and proves we have the relevant mot and insurance, then charge us by the litre for using the road. If that ain't the fairest deal I don't know what is.

[rich 36]

Done it now,
Ta

[DonnyMac]

Tubby, they're going to do that AS WELL! PAYG driving will be here in less than a decade as well as car tax and fuel duty and increased parking permits for 'gas guzzlers'. - Trials already signed off in 12 regions.

[landroverdan]

from what i have heard i think its something like 50% of a cars c02 emissions come from when its being made the longer you keep a car the more "enviromently friendly" it becomes i would like it to be a rolling cut off point so there is an incentive to keep 70s and 80s classic cars on the road
forget all the eco crap people spout at the moment a 1979 golf will do more miles to the gallon than a brand new one (have you seen the size of a mk1 golf compared to a new one)
if you want to be like that why dont we scrap all lancaster bombers, spitfires,hurricanes or anything old! blower bentlys cant be good for the enviroment scrap them! lets all drive round in 1 make euroboxes!

sorry for the rant but where do you draw the line!

please dont be brain brainwashed as a country we only produce 2% of world co2 how much will scrapping anything old help?

[Rum Runner]

Landroverdan
( forget all the eco crap people spout at the moment a 1979 golf will do more miles to the gallon than a brand new one (have you seen the size of a mk1 golf compared to a new one).

Correct ! .

My 1.8 cvh carb 210,000 miles sierra does much better mpg than my oldmans Vectra ( have you seen the size of the frontal area!it may have a low drag factor but so has a airship). My mums old 1.0 fire engine carb Panda which is still around does more than her 1.0 Micra. Oh and the Micra is twin cam 16 and produces 2 hp more according to the figures.
Yes i know they reduce emissions via other means and run at much lower Co% ,even so.

Edited by Rum Runner on Thursday 31st May 23:00

[DonnyMac]

More CO2 comes from the worlds Cows than from Cars - lets remove all the cows or tax them 63.8pence in the pound - oh, they don't have any money - bugger.

The 25 year period DID move on year by year, before it was quietly stopped.

[julian64]

I'd be more willing to sign a petition saying no new cars are allowed to be built/sold unless you could prove your old one had been sold to someone or was unfixable.

The rush for the latest model and throwing the old one away when the ashtrays are full is whats fueling CO2 emmissions. Encouraged by dealers who make old cars difficult to maintain by restriction or uncompetative pricing of parts. Encouraged by governments who talk about improved efficiency as being the holy grail because they get their facts from a glorified dealer.

[SimonSparrow]

julian64 said:

I'd be more willing to sign a petition saying no new cars are allowed to be built/sold unless you could prove your old one had been sold to someone or was unfixable.

The rush for the latest model and throwing the old one away when the ashtrays are full is whats fueling CO2 emmissions. Encouraged by dealers who make old cars difficult to maintain by restriction or uncompetative pricing of parts. Encouraged by governments who talk about improved efficiency as being the holy grail because they get their facts from a glorified dealer.

I do find it irritating that people are driving around in Toyta prius type things. I know they are eco-friendly in use, and certainly a lot of modern cars are more efficient, but so much of the environmental impact of a car is in its construction and disposal.

I read somewhere that 'dust-to-dust' a Jeep Wagoneer had the least envronmental impact as it is simple to make from ordinary materials, lasts a long time, and when it finally dies, a good portion of it can be recycled.

I think people drving around in hybrid cars have sort of understod the problem, but haven't understood the solution. If a government were serious about reducing environmental impact, they'd encourage the lifespan of exisitng vehicles to be maximised. But that isn't the way our society works.