Service intervals - why so frequent?
Discussion
because they are both high performance engines that are designed to be "used".
I dont recall owning any kind of "sports" car that didnt have a 6k services interval, Rover, Nissan, M3, Renault, they all had the same 6k interval.
Maybe its a huge conspiracy by the manufactueres to fleece us out of money.
I dont recall owning any kind of "sports" car that didnt have a 6k services interval, Rover, Nissan, M3, Renault, they all had the same 6k interval.
Maybe its a huge conspiracy by the manufactueres to fleece us out of money.
Good question. The one that always gets me is why you're told the thing needs servicing annually even if you've only done 1,000 miles, but at the same time we're constantly being told that synthetic oil doesn't degrade and lasts for ages!? And anyway, my Range Rover computer's service interval light only used to illuminate about every two years because it only did a low mileage, so why does my Tuscan, and Griffith before that, need looking at every year? Surely it can't be anything to do with boosting dealers' income, can it?
I'm very much of the opinion that a very high performance car should be checked out at least once a year - after all most TVR's are capable of 160 plus..
Can you imagine a wheel bearing collapsing at that speed.. or 80 mph for that matter.
In the last few years big companies like Porsche have made efforts to get rid of the 6K oil service and make servicing cheaper but that takes big bucks and confidence..
Something a little company like TVR (was) could not do..
Can you imagine a wheel bearing collapsing at that speed.. or 80 mph for that matter.
In the last few years big companies like Porsche have made efforts to get rid of the 6K oil service and make servicing cheaper but that takes big bucks and confidence..
Something a little company like TVR (was) could not do..
JR said:
rev-erend said:
I'm very much of the opinion that a very high performance car should be checked out at least once a year - after all most TVR's are capable of 160 plus..
I'd say all cars. Tyres and rubber seals are age dependant etc.Gavstar said:
Ah, OK! Didn't realise that something like an M3 would have such an interval as well. I guess it beats the Scooby's 4500 mile interval!
Which scooby is that? The older ones are 7.5K and the later 10K afaik.The evos have 4.5K services don't they?
Edit - My scooby only does about 5K/year so I guess that has 2.5K services really.
Edited by Toltec on Thursday 30th August 14:35
rev-erend said:
JR said:
rev-erend said:
I'm very much of the opinion that a very high performance car should be checked out at least once a year - after all most TVR's are capable of 160 plus..
I'd say all cars. Tyres and rubber seals are age dependant etc.
For some reason the motor trade seems very keen on oil changes at least once a year, even if the milage is very low.
In the shipping industry, oil samples are sent for analysis at frequent intervals ( say every 3 months ), and it is changed on "condition". Synthetic oils do last a VERY long time.
However, as said above, there is a lot more to servicing a car than changing the oil. I would not be happy driving any car ( but especialy a sports car ) that has not had a good looking over in the last 12 months.
Also, remember that engine life is very dependent on the frequency of oil changes and the quality of the oil. Any engine builder will tell you that. I use synthetic oil in my cars, not to extend the service interval, but on the basis that with the same service interval, the engine will last that much longer.
I think of it this way. To buy a can of synthetic oil, and a filter, costs about the same as a tank of petrol. If you change it yourself, it takes an hour. ( If a garage does it, it should only be an hours labour ). If doing that more often even might make your engine last longer, that must be good value.
Also remember, that it may only take an hour to change the oil, it will take most of the day to check everything else that needs checking / adjusting. That also gives peace of mind, and can prevent you being stranded on the side of the road.
In the shipping industry, oil samples are sent for analysis at frequent intervals ( say every 3 months ), and it is changed on "condition". Synthetic oils do last a VERY long time.
However, as said above, there is a lot more to servicing a car than changing the oil. I would not be happy driving any car ( but especialy a sports car ) that has not had a good looking over in the last 12 months.
Also, remember that engine life is very dependent on the frequency of oil changes and the quality of the oil. Any engine builder will tell you that. I use synthetic oil in my cars, not to extend the service interval, but on the basis that with the same service interval, the engine will last that much longer.
I think of it this way. To buy a can of synthetic oil, and a filter, costs about the same as a tank of petrol. If you change it yourself, it takes an hour. ( If a garage does it, it should only be an hours labour ). If doing that more often even might make your engine last longer, that must be good value.
Also remember, that it may only take an hour to change the oil, it will take most of the day to check everything else that needs checking / adjusting. That also gives peace of mind, and can prevent you being stranded on the side of the road.
PDtvr said:
Good question. but at the same time we're constantly being told that synthetic oil doesn't degrade and lasts for ages!?
That's a good point, but I'm not convinced that with regular use it doesn't degrade. Personally, I've started to get my oil and filter changed every 6 months. It gives me peace of mind for relatively little outlay.
Hi Guys,
As an old school garage man I find your comments interesting reading,as this question is one I am constantly asked.
All performance cars should be serviced at least every six months, regardless of use. This is because the cycle of use is much more arduous than any other vehicle, (with the possible exception of a properly used off road vehicle).
The whole car needs to be fully checked everywhere, by a competent mechanic,to a recommended schedule, any failure in a high preformance vehicle can be catastrophic!
The owner who changes his oil and filter every 3000 miles is, without exception, the one who`s car suffers no mechanical engine failures throughout his ownership, and for the lucky next owner definetely the car to buy!
Leaving aside the benefits of fully synthetic lubricants, standard mineral oils are more than adequate, providing that the correct grade is used.
Check you manufacturers handbook for this info and always choose the highest grade possible, as a rule of thumb.
Whatever you decide, as owners, it depends totally on your budget and how you value your car.
No doubt you might disagree with the above, but in my experience regular servicing is a winner everytime.
Cheers Roy
As an old school garage man I find your comments interesting reading,as this question is one I am constantly asked.
All performance cars should be serviced at least every six months, regardless of use. This is because the cycle of use is much more arduous than any other vehicle, (with the possible exception of a properly used off road vehicle).
The whole car needs to be fully checked everywhere, by a competent mechanic,to a recommended schedule, any failure in a high preformance vehicle can be catastrophic!
The owner who changes his oil and filter every 3000 miles is, without exception, the one who`s car suffers no mechanical engine failures throughout his ownership, and for the lucky next owner definetely the car to buy!
Leaving aside the benefits of fully synthetic lubricants, standard mineral oils are more than adequate, providing that the correct grade is used.
Check you manufacturers handbook for this info and always choose the highest grade possible, as a rule of thumb.
Whatever you decide, as owners, it depends totally on your budget and how you value your car.
No doubt you might disagree with the above, but in my experience regular servicing is a winner everytime.
Cheers Roy
Because that's how most cars used to be , yes oils have got better but new cars only have long intervals so it looks good on Penny per mile figures.
For instance most new cars first service is 10,000 which is crap, by then the oil is quite dirty after bedding in and more often than not the oil is rarely checked .
If i had £10 for every engine i have seen with the oil level below the minimum before 10,000 mile service i would be a rich man.
Some old CVH Fords used to come in below the minimum before 1000 miles never mind 10,000.
Like Big Dunc says in shipping we send oil samples , but generally changing the oil is expensive as it involves many gallons of the stuff in the marine industry .
I have know fleets of( 20) boats using the same generators on the same vessels under the same load . These gen set are very underpowered for the output , some last 10,000 hours with oil changes more frequent than the manufacturer's tag . Ones done less often managed 3500 hrs .
On the latter engines the manufacturer dropped the service time from 100hrs to 75 hrs to combat the problem .
There is a CVH 1.8 ford sierra up the drive hear which was my old mans X company car . He had his own garage before his last job , he insisted the oil was changed more often than recommended when in the fleet 145,000 and then he then i took over the servicing of it . That car has done 210,000 never had the rocker cover off on original box and diff and wheel bearings and has only had usual service items plus cam belt tension-er .Its as quiet as a mouse does not smoke or use any oil, but look inside the rocker cover and its as clean as a whistle
For instance most new cars first service is 10,000 which is crap, by then the oil is quite dirty after bedding in and more often than not the oil is rarely checked .
If i had £10 for every engine i have seen with the oil level below the minimum before 10,000 mile service i would be a rich man.
Some old CVH Fords used to come in below the minimum before 1000 miles never mind 10,000.
Like Big Dunc says in shipping we send oil samples , but generally changing the oil is expensive as it involves many gallons of the stuff in the marine industry .
I have know fleets of( 20) boats using the same generators on the same vessels under the same load . These gen set are very underpowered for the output , some last 10,000 hours with oil changes more frequent than the manufacturer's tag . Ones done less often managed 3500 hrs .
On the latter engines the manufacturer dropped the service time from 100hrs to 75 hrs to combat the problem .
There is a CVH 1.8 ford sierra up the drive hear which was my old mans X company car . He had his own garage before his last job , he insisted the oil was changed more often than recommended when in the fleet 145,000 and then he then i took over the servicing of it . That car has done 210,000 never had the rocker cover off on original box and diff and wheel bearings and has only had usual service items plus cam belt tension-er .Its as quiet as a mouse does not smoke or use any oil, but look inside the rocker cover and its as clean as a whistle
Edited by Rum Runner on Thursday 30th August 21:35
Many high performance cars (esp. TVRs and forced induction cars) run very rich. This can lead to high levels of fuel contamination in the oil. Fuel contamination affects the efficiency of the oil considerably. Low annual mileage can often (but not always) mean lots of stop/ starting. Start up is when an engine runs most rich so if a car has lots of engine starts but not many miles it can still have heavy fuel contamination in the oil. Hence annual and/ or (relatively) low mileage oil changes.
Servicing the rest of the car (esp. TVRs) is based upon the short life of components. Brakes, tyres, suspension hardwear, bushes/ mounts can easily degrade beyond serviceability within a "normal" frequency (of 10,000 miles or more). A key objective of a service is to identify (and rectify) an issue before it becomes a problem. Hence annual and/ or (relatively) low mileage servicing.
Service schedules are designed to be idiot proof. Only "you" know whether your car will really benefit from a service or not. The problem is that when you sell the car on having skipped the odd service, a potential new buyer may not be convinced that the car has been properly maintained which is another good reason to keep up a full service history... IMO.
Servicing the rest of the car (esp. TVRs) is based upon the short life of components. Brakes, tyres, suspension hardwear, bushes/ mounts can easily degrade beyond serviceability within a "normal" frequency (of 10,000 miles or more). A key objective of a service is to identify (and rectify) an issue before it becomes a problem. Hence annual and/ or (relatively) low mileage servicing.
Service schedules are designed to be idiot proof. Only "you" know whether your car will really benefit from a service or not. The problem is that when you sell the car on having skipped the odd service, a potential new buyer may not be convinced that the car has been properly maintained which is another good reason to keep up a full service history... IMO.
Devil's is bang on with over fueling e.t.c , which runs past the rings and into the oil.
We have cases of outboard motors sat on moorings (moving up and down constantly when not used )with worn carbs which end up dumping there float contents into the oil (4 stroke ) . When you dip the oil its high on the stick and like water its very contaminated .
We have cases of outboard motors sat on moorings (moving up and down constantly when not used )with worn carbs which end up dumping there float contents into the oil (4 stroke ) . When you dip the oil its high on the stick and like water its very contaminated .
Devil's Advocate said:
Servicing the rest of the car (esp. TVRs) is based upon the short life of components. Brakes, tyres, suspension hardwear, bushes/ mounts can easily degrade beyond serviceability within a "normal" frequency (of 10,000 miles or more). A key objective of a service is to identify (and rectify) an issue before it becomes a problem. Hence annual and/ or (relatively) low mileage servicing.
Good point. I bought the wife a small Citroen to replce her Jeep because my teenage daughter was learning to drive and I wanted something I could insure without recource to a mortgage. The service intervals are 20,000 miles! I mentioned to a friend who is a Fiat main dealer and he said "yes, but brake pads etc.. wear at the same rate on a car whether the service interval is 6k or 20k".P100 said:
Hi Guys,
The owner who changes his oil and filter every 3000 miles is, without exception, the one who`s car suffers no mechanical engine failures throughout his ownership, and for the lucky next owner definetely the car to buy!
Cheers Roy
Couldn't agree with this statement more.The owner who changes his oil and filter every 3000 miles is, without exception, the one who`s car suffers no mechanical engine failures throughout his ownership, and for the lucky next owner definetely the car to buy!
Cheers Roy
Bore wash, acidity, condensation all play a major part in engine oil condition. I don't care what the manufacturers say. NO oil lasts for 12,000 miles.
Consider the 50's designed RV8 It had 138hp in its original guise. TVR have squeezed 340hp out of it, well over double.
Try rubbing your balls inside your pants at double the frequency and see if they need looking at more often
Its the old addage. The old engineers are slow to change. They still change the oil at 3000 intervals.
Oil's cheaper than Engines.
The shorter the service interval the more reliable the car.
N.
John. where do you get serviced, and can i come along next time
heightswitch said:
P100 said:
Hi Guys,
The owner who changes his oil and filter every 3000 miles is, without exception, the one who`s car suffers no mechanical engine failures throughout his ownership, and for the lucky next owner definetely the car to buy!
Cheers Roy
Consider the 50's designed RV8 It had 138hp in its original guise. The owner who changes his oil and filter every 3000 miles is, without exception, the one who`s car suffers no mechanical engine failures throughout his ownership, and for the lucky next owner definetely the car to buy!
Cheers Roy
TVR have squeezed 340hp out of it, well over double.
and the other is manufacturers bullshit
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