Discussion
I've been offered a 2005 Cat D Sagaris for about £10k less than all those advertised in the classifieds. The car from what i know has been fully repaired to the highest standard and awaiting a full respray. It sounds a reasonable deal to me but i am very wary of the car having the stigma of being Cat D and obviously the possible difficulties of selling it on in years to come. What do you all think? i'd appreciate any comments!! I am a loon even thinking of buying it?
The fact is that Cat Ds are difficult to sell. This has positive and negative aspects. It makes it cheap to buy. It means that you have to sell it at a cheap price so that any 'investment' you make in the car is unlikely to be returned.
However, if you keep the car, the downside is immaterial. The only problem is that your circumstances may change and you may well be forced into parting with it at a later date.
One thing that does make a Cat D write-off more likely to sell is a fully documented repair and an independant engineer's report (on the assumption that they are both positive of course).
My opinion is that they are not a bargain as such but compare the Cat D Sag with what else you could afford and what is available at that price. There were only 150 or so Sags made so one would assume that there will always be a big demands for them.
Also, what price a Sag with a blown engine?
When looking for a TVR to buy I did a 140 mile round trip to be told by the seller after 15 minutes that the car was a Cat D. I felt I couldn't trust him so left immediately. Looking back, I think that if he'd said as much in the advert I would have bought the car as it was immaculate. When I had a go at him he said that, when he advertised it as Cat D no one bothered even to look at it. That would appear to be the main problem. There is a considerable amount of prejudice against Cat Ds. And, although I'm sorry to say it, it's a prejudice I share.
However, if you keep the car, the downside is immaterial. The only problem is that your circumstances may change and you may well be forced into parting with it at a later date.
One thing that does make a Cat D write-off more likely to sell is a fully documented repair and an independant engineer's report (on the assumption that they are both positive of course).
My opinion is that they are not a bargain as such but compare the Cat D Sag with what else you could afford and what is available at that price. There were only 150 or so Sags made so one would assume that there will always be a big demands for them.
Also, what price a Sag with a blown engine?
When looking for a TVR to buy I did a 140 mile round trip to be told by the seller after 15 minutes that the car was a Cat D. I felt I couldn't trust him so left immediately. Looking back, I think that if he'd said as much in the advert I would have bought the car as it was immaculate. When I had a go at him he said that, when he advertised it as Cat D no one bothered even to look at it. That would appear to be the main problem. There is a considerable amount of prejudice against Cat Ds. And, although I'm sorry to say it, it's a prejudice I share.
Just had a phone call to say I was talking through my nether regions.
His points were:
Depreciation goes in percentage terms so you would lose less money than if you bought one for £10k more;
You never get your investment back from upgrades, whether the car's a Cat D or not;
People buy on condition. If it's kep in good condition, it will sell. Fair enough, at a price lower than a 'normal' one, but it would still sell.
I agree with the first two points. Not too sure about the third.
His points were:
Depreciation goes in percentage terms so you would lose less money than if you bought one for £10k more;
You never get your investment back from upgrades, whether the car's a Cat D or not;
People buy on condition. If it's kep in good condition, it will sell. Fair enough, at a price lower than a 'normal' one, but it would still sell.
I agree with the first two points. Not too sure about the third.
BliarOut said:
Just check the insurance position... Some companies won't insure Cat C, not sure if the same applies to Cat D. It can push the insurance costs up year on year.
Horses for courses and you could end up with a bargain. Purchase cost is usually a nominal 25% discount. This would turn a £36K car into a £27K car so making it available if you don't have £36K. Insurance costs will be higher, repairs are rarely 100% and resale even at a lower price is likely to be more difficult, as per Derek's story.Check out http://www.autoligninspections.co.uk. They say:
autolign said:
The inspection procedure is designed to confirm both the identity of the vehicle and the quality of repairs carried out. Any vehicle that passes the inspection will be thoroughly roadworthy and within three days the vehicle will be removed from the HPI condition alert register.
It might be worth talking to them.Just spoken to Autolign (thanks for the info Profstoff) who for a minimal cost can reclasify the car (if it is up to scratch of course!), issue a certificate of conformity and then remove it from the HPI condition alert register. From what the chap told me the V5 log book does not state anywhere it is a cat D, it is only shown on this register so if when i go to sell the car and someone carries out an HPI check on the car it will only say that the car has been checked for conformity - it wont say CAT D!! This all sounds good but i assume saying "checked for conformity" would make people
suspicious of previous damage???? I am still very cautious of CAT D but possibly dont want to miss out on a great car!
suspicious of previous damage???? I am still very cautious of CAT D but possibly dont want to miss out on a great car!
Do you know why it was Cat D? Was it chassis or serious cosmetic? Whichever it was as long as it passes an inspection then I would have no qualms about buying it in terms of condition. At the end of the day the chassis was welded in the first place, if someone has properly welded in a replacement for a bent section and properly alligned it is this any worse than when it left the factory? Same with body panels/work.
Surely you pay less when you buy it and will expect to get less when you sell it. Is this not an opportunity to get a the experience of a Sagaris without having to save/spend as much as everyone else?
Only issue I would have is if you add in the cost of a respray is it that cheap? No idea how much a respray would be.
Surely you pay less when you buy it and will expect to get less when you sell it. Is this not an opportunity to get a the experience of a Sagaris without having to save/spend as much as everyone else?
Only issue I would have is if you add in the cost of a respray is it that cheap? No idea how much a respray would be.
I currently have a cat c superbike, thoroughly checked it when i bought it and I couldnt be happier, just make sure its up to scratch, if youre saving 10k then you can certainly afford 2-300 quid for a decent full inspection.
Vehicles that show up on the registers as damaged (cat d) generally mean they have been rectified to a satisfactory standard, in your case it is a cat d and has to be checked thoroughly before being re-registered as 9/10 times its total loss chassis damage, cat c's dont need to be re-inspected they are simply bought by owners etc out of the compo money, and in some cases may not be restored fully although technically it is lighter damage than a cat d.
How many faster 'flighty' vehicles out there have been damaged and never registered as damaged, at least this one you know the history, and lets face it they are hand built anyway, and it would have been put back together by hand unlike a ford which is machined in the beginning and a hand repair never feels the same.
If you don't want it, let me have the details too and we can have a bidding war!!
Vehicles that show up on the registers as damaged (cat d) generally mean they have been rectified to a satisfactory standard, in your case it is a cat d and has to be checked thoroughly before being re-registered as 9/10 times its total loss chassis damage, cat c's dont need to be re-inspected they are simply bought by owners etc out of the compo money, and in some cases may not be restored fully although technically it is lighter damage than a cat d.
How many faster 'flighty' vehicles out there have been damaged and never registered as damaged, at least this one you know the history, and lets face it they are hand built anyway, and it would have been put back together by hand unlike a ford which is machined in the beginning and a hand repair never feels the same.
If you don't want it, let me have the details too and we can have a bidding war!!
I thought
Cat A was nothing salvagable,
Cat B was write off and some parts may be useful for spares,
Cat C was substantial damage usually involving structural parts
Cat D was beyond economical repair but the car was considered repairable.
I stand to be corrected though.
I would only buy a Cat C or Cat D car after an independant inspection.
Cat A was nothing salvagable,
Cat B was write off and some parts may be useful for spares,
Cat C was substantial damage usually involving structural parts
Cat D was beyond economical repair but the car was considered repairable.
I stand to be corrected though.
I would only buy a Cat C or Cat D car after an independant inspection.
With a little searching:
An explanation of the categories of write-off are listed below:
Category A A vehicle which should have been totally crushed, including all its spare parts.
Category B A vehicle from which spare parts may be salvaged, but the bodyshell should have been crushed and the car should never return to the road.
Category C An extensively damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category D A damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category F A vehicle damaged by fire, which the insurer has decided not to repair.
Theft These vehicles have not been recovered and ownership rests with the insurer who made the total loss payment. They are able to repossess the car as soon as it is identified, even if it has been bought innocently.
Vehicles categorised as A, B or C require a VIC test before the DVLA will issue a new registration document. This will then be noted on the V5C. See www.dvla.gov.uk for more information on VIC testing.
An explanation of the categories of write-off are listed below:
Category A A vehicle which should have been totally crushed, including all its spare parts.
Category B A vehicle from which spare parts may be salvaged, but the bodyshell should have been crushed and the car should never return to the road.
Category C An extensively damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category D A damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category F A vehicle damaged by fire, which the insurer has decided not to repair.
Theft These vehicles have not been recovered and ownership rests with the insurer who made the total loss payment. They are able to repossess the car as soon as it is identified, even if it has been bought innocently.
Vehicles categorised as A, B or C require a VIC test before the DVLA will issue a new registration document. This will then be noted on the V5C. See www.dvla.gov.uk for more information on VIC testing.
Pied Piper said:
With a little searching:
An explanation of the categories of write-off are listed below:
Category A A vehicle which should have been totally crushed, including all its spare parts.
Category B A vehicle from which spare parts may be salvaged, but the bodyshell should have been crushed and the car should never return to the road.
Category C An extensively damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category D A damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category F A vehicle damaged by fire, which the insurer has decided not to repair.
Theft These vehicles have not been recovered and ownership rests with the insurer who made the total loss payment. They are able to repossess the car as soon as it is identified, even if it has been bought innocently.
Vehicles categorised as A, B or C require a VIC test before the DVLA will issue a new registration document. This will then be noted on the V5C. See www.dvla.gov.uk for more information on VIC testing.
It made me very sad just reading that list An explanation of the categories of write-off are listed below:
Category A A vehicle which should have been totally crushed, including all its spare parts.
Category B A vehicle from which spare parts may be salvaged, but the bodyshell should have been crushed and the car should never return to the road.
Category C An extensively damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category D A damaged vehicle which the insurer has decided not to repair, but which could be repaired and returned to the road.
Category F A vehicle damaged by fire, which the insurer has decided not to repair.
Theft These vehicles have not been recovered and ownership rests with the insurer who made the total loss payment. They are able to repossess the car as soon as it is identified, even if it has been bought innocently.
Vehicles categorised as A, B or C require a VIC test before the DVLA will issue a new registration document. This will then be noted on the V5C. See www.dvla.gov.uk for more information on VIC testing.
its cat d that isnt too bad and my bike is a d not a c, anyway as mentioned above get it checked out and if youre happy then you can have no complaints and some happy cheap motoring, and if the sag is in the 20s, what a bargain!!!Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff