Bespoke Re-map to suit decatted Tuscan
Bespoke Re-map to suit decatted Tuscan
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Discussion

NTEL

Original Poster:

5,051 posts

270 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
quotequote all
I took the car to TVR Power to have the ECU remapped by John Ravenscroft. The remap has been done specifically to suit my design of Decat pipe fitted to a standard 4.0L Tuscan. The results are staggering. Below is the before and after graphs. The blue line shows the Power / Torque lines with cats fitted and running the factory map. The red line shows the Power / Torque lines with the decat pipes fitted and running bespoke map. The Power figures ARE AT THE WHEELS.



As can be seen, there is an increase in power of 29.43 BHP and an increase in torque of 47.98 ft-lbs.

The car feels a lot smoother to drive and the power delivery is awesome.

In theory, according to John, the car should be able to pass an MOT emmissions test. This will be tested next week when I have a bit more time and I'll let you know the result.

rev-erend

21,623 posts

314 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Can anyone smell fish.. frown

DJC

23,563 posts

266 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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fish?

andyoleary

1,713 posts

243 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Crikey Dave, that's a hell of an improvement! Did you get flywheel figures too? I have been thinking of doing this myself and, whilst the general concensus is that a SP6 remap wouldn't yield much top-end BHP improvements, I would be more interested in the smoothness of the map across the whole range.

Nice one!

Andy

PS: Cost?

Steve_T

6,356 posts

302 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Is that AFR reading on the right scale? - it points to the car being very lean, which I'm sure it wouldn't be given it's been fully mapped.

mufdady

74 posts

233 months

Friday 23rd November 2007
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Amazing results. How much, & how long does it take?

NTEL

Original Poster:

5,051 posts

270 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
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rev-erend said:
Can anyone smell fish.. frown
No fish mate, only chips smile

madbadger

11,752 posts

274 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
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Cool.

What's that at the fly?

smile

S5TVR

1,239 posts

263 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
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I'm a big fan of re-maps and I'm pleased you're happy with the results, but another 30bhp at the wheels just can't be right. 293bhp at the wheels for a 4.0 SP6 engine is good to start with.

madbadger

11,752 posts

274 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
S5TVR said:
I'm a big fan of re-maps and I'm pleased you're happy with the results, but another 30bhp at the wheels just can't be right. 293bhp at the wheels for a 4.0 SP6 engine is good to start with.
Must be something to do with the decat then!

Bet that would sound good too... whistle

S5TVR

1,239 posts

263 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
madbadger said:
S5TVR said:
I'm a big fan of re-maps and I'm pleased you're happy with the results, but another 30bhp at the wheels just can't be right. 293bhp at the wheels for a 4.0 SP6 engine is good to start with.
Must be something to do with the decat then!
Bet that would sound good too... whistle
De-catting makes the SP6 sounds awesome - I had mine done earlier this year. What I forgot to say was that when I had my T350 RR decatted and re-mapped the peak power only went up by a small amount as did the torque i.e less than 10 for both bhp and lb/ft, but the increase lower down in the rev range was 20+ in each case. The car feels much much much quicker post de-cat and re-map. I just struggle to believe that power increases of 29bhp and 48 lb/ft torque are right especially as it was making decent power to start with. I have to say this isn't the first time I've heard some odd RR figures coming out from TVR power - I once wistnessed a car that put out 50bhp less on a well known rolling road compared to the TVR power rolling road where it was dyno'd about 12 hours before !

madbadger

11,752 posts

274 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
I'll have to get to a rolling road now. I've got Daves decatts on the Tamora, but nothing else done. The design is quite different to a standard decat where the cat material is just removed from the box.

Had you had the decat done for LeMans? I was next to you leaving the ferry, and the T350 sounded sweet then.

smile

S5TVR

1,239 posts

263 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
madbadger said:
I'll have to get to a rolling road now. I've got Daves decatts on the Tamora, but nothing else done. The design is quite different to a standard decat where the cat material is just removed from the box.
Had you had the decat done for LeMans? I was next to you leaving the ferry, and the T350 sounded sweet then.
smile
No, the de-catt was done after Le Mans and it does sound much better now. I've got a JP back box on which sounds good, but looks crap IMHO and probably creates a bit of unnecessary back pressure. The car is currently with Hayward & Scott who are producing a bespoke rear section for me as well as replacing the current silencers with a couple of bigger ones, so the whole system should be a bit more free flowing - it was actually the de-cat that made me realise how sensitive the engine is to back-pressure.

NTEL

Original Poster:

5,051 posts

270 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
S5TVR said:
madbadger said:
S5TVR said:
I'm a big fan of re-maps and I'm pleased you're happy with the results, but another 30bhp at the wheels just can't be right. 293bhp at the wheels for a 4.0 SP6 engine is good to start with.
Must be something to do with the decat then!
Bet that would sound good too... whistle
De-catting makes the SP6 sounds awesome - I had mine done earlier this year. What I forgot to say was that when I had my T350 RR decatted and re-mapped the peak power only went up by a small amount as did the torque i.e less than 10 for both bhp and lb/ft, but the increase lower down in the rev range was 20+ in each case. The car feels much much much quicker post de-cat and re-map. I just struggle to believe that power increases of 29bhp and 48 lb/ft torque are right especially as it was making decent power to start with. I have to say this isn't the first time I've heard some odd RR figures coming out from TVR power - I once wistnessed a car that put out 50bhp less on a well known rolling road compared to the TVR power rolling road where it was dyno'd about 12 hours before !
All I can give you are the figures. I witnessed the remap being carried and all the power runs of which there were six in total. (I thought the engine was going to jump out at one point yikes).

All the work on my car was done by John Ravenscroft, who really knows his stuff. John, Dom, and Jason were all surprised at the figures. I'll try to get the map off Dom for the second run where the decat pipes were fitted but running the standard map.

As for which rolling road was used, I'm not sure that makes any difference in this case. Its the differential figures that are important.

As a matter of interest, was yours an "off the shelf" chip?

Daftlad

3,324 posts

271 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
NTEL said:
S5TVR said:
madbadger said:
S5TVR said:
I'm a big fan of re-maps and I'm pleased you're happy with the results, but another 30bhp at the wheels just can't be right. 293bhp at the wheels for a 4.0 SP6 engine is good to start with.
Must be something to do with the decat then!
Bet that would sound good too... whistle
De-catting makes the SP6 sounds awesome - I had mine done earlier this year. What I forgot to say was that when I had my T350 RR decatted and re-mapped the peak power only went up by a small amount as did the torque i.e less than 10 for both bhp and lb/ft, but the increase lower down in the rev range was 20+ in each case. The car feels much much much quicker post de-cat and re-map. I just struggle to believe that power increases of 29bhp and 48 lb/ft torque are right especially as it was making decent power to start with. I have to say this isn't the first time I've heard some odd RR figures coming out from TVR power - I once wistnessed a car that put out 50bhp less on a well known rolling road compared to the TVR power rolling road where it was dyno'd about 12 hours before !
All I can give you are the figures. I witnessed the remap being carried and all the power runs of which there were six in total. (I thought the engine was going to jump out at one point yikes).

All the work on my car was done by John Ravenscroft, who really knows his stuff. John, Dom, and Jason were all surprised at the figures. I'll try to get the map off Dom for the second run where the decat pipes were fitted but running the standard map.

As for which rolling road was used, I'm not sure that makes any difference in this case. Its the differential figures that are important.

As a matter of interest, was yours an "off the shelf" chip?
Sensible attitude Dave, would expect nothing else.
You're on a loser posting Dyno plots on PH, they always have some thing wrong with them (and I've had a pop before so I'm probably no better than the rest).

Personally, I would have spent my money on trying to quiten the car down or donating the dosh it to the Charity for Deaf Dogs with a fear of Silver and Yellow cars made in Blackpool (I now have one as consequence of following you and Dot hehehehehehe)

S5TVR

1,239 posts

263 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
The replacement chip I had put in wasn't off the shelf, but was mapped on a bespoke basis by Paul at Austec. I've been to a few rolling road sessions now and frankly they are a bit of a waste of time for making comparsions between cars unless the cars being compared were on the same rollers and preferably on the same day. Also, the way in which runs are conducted make a big difference - for example my car (prior to re-map) put out a staggering 40bhp less on one set of rollers compared to another - the difference being due to the gear the run was done in. Personally, I think what is telling is when you overlay the before and after results without getting bogged down too much by peak figures - for me it was the increases throughout the rev range range (low down in particular) that were staggering and for me made the whole thing really worth while. There'a a lot of people out there still who question the benefits of re-mapping the SP6, but I haven't come across a single person who has had it done and thinks it wasn't good value for money.

Also, if you really want to see how your car compares to others go along to an event like Fighting Torque - there's not a huge amount of driver skill involved, so if you're creaming everyone you know you have fast car pure and simple.

trackcar

6,453 posts

256 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
NTEL said:
S5TVR said:
madbadger said:
S5TVR said:
I'm a big fan of re-maps and I'm pleased you're happy with the results, but another 30bhp at the wheels just can't be right. 293bhp at the wheels for a 4.0 SP6 engine is good to start with.
Must be something to do with the decat then!
Bet that would sound good too... whistle
De-catting makes the SP6 sounds awesome - I had mine done earlier this year. What I forgot to say was that when I had my T350 RR decatted and re-mapped the peak power only went up by a small amount as did the torque i.e less than 10 for both bhp and lb/ft, but the increase lower down in the rev range was 20+ in each case. The car feels much much much quicker post de-cat and re-map. I just struggle to believe that power increases of 29bhp and 48 lb/ft torque are right especially as it was making decent power to start with. I have to say this isn't the first time I've heard some odd RR figures coming out from TVR power - I once wistnessed a car that put out 50bhp less on a well known rolling road compared to the TVR power rolling road where it was dyno'd about 12 hours before !
All I can give you are the figures. I witnessed the remap being carried and all the power runs of which there were six in total. (I thought the engine was going to jump out at one point yikes).

All the work on my car was done by John Ravenscroft, who really knows his stuff. John, Dom, and Jason were all surprised at the figures. I'll try to get the map off Dom for the second run where the decat pipes were fitted but running the standard map.

As for which rolling road was used, I'm not sure that makes any difference in this case. Its the differential figures that are important.

As a matter of interest, was yours an "off the shelf" chip?
6 power runs doesnt sound many .. was only full throttle mapped and nothing else? it's a day's work to remap a car properly all through the rev/throttle sites, how long were you there for? Those are great numbers thumbup , i've never seen that increase before on a SP6 .. i reckon on about 10hp, maybe a bit more with a decat as mentioned above. Were your cats blokced beforehand and maybe skewing the end result a bit perhaps? anyway whatever the scenario, if the car's more powerful then it's quicker thumbup

NTEL

Original Poster:

5,051 posts

270 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
Daftlad said:
Sensible attitude Dave, would expect nothing else.
You're on a loser posting Dyno plots on PH, they always have some thing wrong with them (and I've had a pop before so I'm probably no better than the rest).

Personally, I would have spent my money on trying to quiten the car down or donating the dosh it to the Charity for Deaf Dogs with a fear of Silver and Yellow cars made in Blackpool (I now have one as consequence of following you and Dot hehehehehehe)
Hi John, I thought I might get a bit of flack for posting the graphs but, hey, the proof is in the eating. The car is much quicker and pulls like a bleedin' train.

As for the noise, well, the journey back from the Blackpool run, a couple of weeks ago, sorted that out when one of the loud cans fell off on the M6 and got squashed by a Renault. Had the standard cans on since then so much quieter now.

By the way. We are both sorry about damaging Daftdog mate wink


NTEL

Original Poster:

5,051 posts

270 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
trackcar said:
6 power runs doesnt sound many .. was only full throttle mapped and nothing else? it's a day's work to remap a car properly all through the rev/throttle sites, how long were you there for? Those are great numbers thumbup , i've never seen that increase before on a SP6 .. i reckon on about 10hp, maybe a bit more with a decat as mentioned above. Were your cats blokced beforehand and maybe skewing the end result a bit perhaps? anyway whatever the scenario, if the car's more powerful then it's quicker thumbup
Hi Joules, they were working on the car for about 5 hours. Fuel pressure was increased a bit and all the throttles were adjusted. The cats were in very good condition. I understand from John, that the remap was across the range. Like I mentioned earlier, the car now pulls like a train.

MrsS

454 posts

282 months

Sunday 25th November 2007
quotequote all
NTEL said:
By the way. We are both sorry about damaging Daftdog mate wink
Don't worry Dave, he's already damaged.biggrin