Cat C/D Cars. Unrealistic Prices?
Discussion
If you're one of those people who is who wouldn't dream of buying a crashed and repaired car then I respect your opinion but this isn't going to be the thread for you. That's not what I want to discuss.
What I am curious about is whether or not it's possible to apply a factor or percentage (deduction) to the market value and arrive at a 'going rate' for a properly repaired car.
Trawling the classifieds today I saw two Tuscans, both registered in 2000, both have 40,000 miles on them. In effect identical cars except that one had met the scenery at some time in its history. The asking price for one £14,000, the other £12,000. The latter was of course the repaired one but the seller doesn't say which category the insurers allocated.
If anything I think the £14,000 car is overpriced (next ad is a dealer offering a 2001 model, same mileage, only £950 more) and I've seen Cat C/D Tuscans offered for less than this one also but these figures suggest a markdown in the region of 15%. A fair adjustment or not? Personally I'd expect the figure to be higher thereby reducing the value of the repaired car even more.
Hmmm, come to think of it I quite like the look of the dealer's Tuscan.
What I am curious about is whether or not it's possible to apply a factor or percentage (deduction) to the market value and arrive at a 'going rate' for a properly repaired car.
Trawling the classifieds today I saw two Tuscans, both registered in 2000, both have 40,000 miles on them. In effect identical cars except that one had met the scenery at some time in its history. The asking price for one £14,000, the other £12,000. The latter was of course the repaired one but the seller doesn't say which category the insurers allocated.
If anything I think the £14,000 car is overpriced (next ad is a dealer offering a 2001 model, same mileage, only £950 more) and I've seen Cat C/D Tuscans offered for less than this one also but these figures suggest a markdown in the region of 15%. A fair adjustment or not? Personally I'd expect the figure to be higher thereby reducing the value of the repaired car even more.
Hmmm, come to think of it I quite like the look of the dealer's Tuscan.
Edited by Flintstone on Friday 30th November 11:50
Interesting topic this and I've thought about buying a cheap CAT C/D myself. I've seen reasonably undamaged cars selling for very little money say £5K and factoring another £5K to do a good repair job, means you can get a car that might be worth £15K if it was undamaged.
Now the value I guess is the same as anything, i.e what a willing buyer is going to pay. We're all told repaired Cat C/D cars are worth less money but surely a fully restored/repaired car is worth more than an unloved, uncrashed car with rotton outriggers that just looks good cosmetically?
Now the value I guess is the same as anything, i.e what a willing buyer is going to pay. We're all told repaired Cat C/D cars are worth less money but surely a fully restored/repaired car is worth more than an unloved, uncrashed car with rotton outriggers that just looks good cosmetically?
A car on the register will always be worth less, to me it doesn't always make sense, but being listed will mean when you come to sell the buyers will be more limited and those that are will equally want to pay less... it's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy being worth less on the register.
In reality any car can have been crashed, on a newer car an insurer may chose to repair (lower percentage of value only due to higher value of car at the time) where a few years down the line they would not do so for the self same damage, so being listed or not doesn't in any way condemn it as being a worse crash. Indeed a repair of a Cat C by a specialist could easily be a better repair than one knocked through by an insurance company with a highstreet repair place that doesn't know their TVR's... ultimately each car has to judged on it's own merits.
Having said all that, the price is affected as said earlier, not necessarily logical but a fact of life. I would go on about a quarter off for Cat D and upto about a third for Cat C.
In reality any car can have been crashed, on a newer car an insurer may chose to repair (lower percentage of value only due to higher value of car at the time) where a few years down the line they would not do so for the self same damage, so being listed or not doesn't in any way condemn it as being a worse crash. Indeed a repair of a Cat C by a specialist could easily be a better repair than one knocked through by an insurance company with a highstreet repair place that doesn't know their TVR's... ultimately each car has to judged on it's own merits.
Having said all that, the price is affected as said earlier, not necessarily logical but a fact of life. I would go on about a quarter off for Cat D and upto about a third for Cat C.
I dont think those prices sound too unrealistic, provided the damaged car has been repaired to a high enough standard. and they both are in good condition with decent history.
You dont know the condition of the cars without seeing them with your own eyes, cosmetic condition can affect the price quite a bit (covered in stone chips or mint, leaky or not, shagged interior? etc), as can recent engine rebuilds etc, you fail to mention any of these.
You dont know the condition of the cars without seeing them with your own eyes, cosmetic condition can affect the price quite a bit (covered in stone chips or mint, leaky or not, shagged interior? etc), as can recent engine rebuilds etc, you fail to mention any of these.
Providing it is thoroughly inspected I would jump at Cat D's. Why?
Working on the 25%reduction theory, you can pick up a £20k car for £15k, saving £5k.
If you sell in a couple of years, the £20k car would be worth say £16k if you are lucky, and the Cat D would now be £12k.
So the Cat D loses £3k and the other loses £5k. Thats £2k in the bank for rainy days.
Working on the 25%reduction theory, you can pick up a £20k car for £15k, saving £5k.
If you sell in a couple of years, the £20k car would be worth say £16k if you are lucky, and the Cat D would now be £12k.
So the Cat D loses £3k and the other loses £5k. Thats £2k in the bank for rainy days.
I agree with Buffoon.
Not sure I would go to Cat C but a Cat D often gives a good chance to get into something that you wouldn't usually be able to afford or get it for a better price, i.e. undamaged 348 versus Cat D 355, mint 2003 car versus Cat D 2006 car
In terms of a percentage value for it being on the register I would go for 25-30%, when you sell it expect the same but it won't depreciate any more than if it wasn't on the register.
All this is based on it being a high quality repair of course...
Not sure I would go to Cat C but a Cat D often gives a good chance to get into something that you wouldn't usually be able to afford or get it for a better price, i.e. undamaged 348 versus Cat D 355, mint 2003 car versus Cat D 2006 car
In terms of a percentage value for it being on the register I would go for 25-30%, when you sell it expect the same but it won't depreciate any more than if it wasn't on the register.
All this is based on it being a high quality repair of course...
I agree with the above, a genuine Cat D is not so much of a risk, the relative price difference should remain static in terms of % but of course in £ terms it will drop.
I was toying with the idea of a blue Tuscan which I think was 2003 @ £17 with low mileage, but I've gone for another cerb instead.
I was toying with the idea of a blue Tuscan which I think was 2003 @ £17 with low mileage, but I've gone for another cerb instead.
CAT D especially really depends on how long your going to keep the car for. It is likely the insurance company has written off a CAT D not because of the damage but the associated costs with the repair, cost of hire car etc.
In that sense buying a CAT D makes good sense as the damage will have been minor. If your keeping the car as a long term toy then it makes huge sense as the CAT D status will have no effect on you other that the cheaper purchase price. There was a superb low milage Griff SE that was CAT D on here recently (No 69 I think) that went for a great price - I would have jumped at it if I had the cash sitting around looking to buy, CAT D or No CAT D.
In that sense buying a CAT D makes good sense as the damage will have been minor. If your keeping the car as a long term toy then it makes huge sense as the CAT D status will have no effect on you other that the cheaper purchase price. There was a superb low milage Griff SE that was CAT D on here recently (No 69 I think) that went for a great price - I would have jumped at it if I had the cash sitting around looking to buy, CAT D or No CAT D.
davido140 said:
You dont know the condition of the cars without seeing them with your own eyes, cosmetic condition can affect the price quite a bit (covered in stone chips or mint, leaky or not, shagged interior? etc), as can recent engine rebuilds etc, you fail to mention any of these.
Both seem to be around the same standard with the only exception being aftermarket wheels and exhaust on the rebuilt one. Dealers car. 2001, 38,000 miles £14995.
'Standard' car. 2000, 40,000 miles £13995.
Rebuilt car. 2000, 40,000 miles £12000.
Dealer mark-ups over private sales equate to 10-15% at this level. If we assume the rebuild to be Cat 'D' and therefore subject to a (generous) 15% mark-down we should be looking at £14995/£12745/£10833.
Either that or the dealers car is a bit of a bargain.
Edited by Flintstone on Friday 30th November 15:20
Just in case anyone (like me) was looking for a link regarding the DVLA and re-registering cars like those being discussed here:
Main link
Radiclly altered vehicle
Rebuilt/Kit car or "kit conversion"
I found it useful hopefully someone else will too.
Rob.
PS I had a quick search and couldn't find a link to these pages, if they are not in the right place then I will delete the post.
Main link
Radiclly altered vehicle
Rebuilt/Kit car or "kit conversion"
I found it useful hopefully someone else will too.
Rob.
PS I had a quick search and couldn't find a link to these pages, if they are not in the right place then I will delete the post.
Paul V said:
I wouldn't be worried about Cat C cars either this was the damage to my Griff
This was classed Cat C, there was no chassis damage, just a bit of fibreglass and a broken rad. I'm sure if it that was repaired to a decent standard then it would easily be as good as new, if not better.
Odd that this should get Cat C status, I always thought Cat C & D were both "uneconomical to repair" but you get a C status if it has stuctural damage?This was classed Cat C, there was no chassis damage, just a bit of fibreglass and a broken rad. I'm sure if it that was repaired to a decent standard then it would easily be as good as new, if not better.
Bluebottle said:
Paul V said:
I wouldn't be worried about Cat C cars either this was the damage to my Griff
This was classed Cat C, there was no chassis damage, just a bit of fibreglass and a broken rad. I'm sure if it that was repaired to a decent standard then it would easily be as good as new, if not better.
Odd that this should get Cat C status, I always thought Cat C & D were both "uneconomical to repair" but you get a C status if it has stuctural damage?This was classed Cat C, there was no chassis damage, just a bit of fibreglass and a broken rad. I'm sure if it that was repaired to a decent standard then it would easily be as good as new, if not better.
IMO don't try to work out whether a cat c is any worse or better than a cat d - it really does depend on the insurance assessor , eg I've just bought another cat c car not tvr - although my chim was cat c in 2002 and cost over 16k in repair costs plus whatever the owner bought it back for from the insurance company , it doesn't bother me that it's on the register as it's a keeper ,the latest car I bought is a cat c peugeot flooded in yorkshire in the summer - damage was an airbag ecu and damp carpets nowt else but still cat c ?? work that one out lol
would I buy another car on the register - it all depends on the quality of the repair - WRT discount for being on the register it appears to be in the region of 25% with no difference whether cat c or d - I suspect if you have an excellent example of a well repaired car the margin will decrease in time
would I buy another car on the register - it all depends on the quality of the repair - WRT discount for being on the register it appears to be in the region of 25% with no difference whether cat c or d - I suspect if you have an excellent example of a well repaired car the margin will decrease in time
Quinny said:
It came back looking like this
Every stage of the repair was photographed and documented.
But it goes to show that there is no consistency, and every car should be judged individually.
There are plenty of cars out there that have suffered accident damage and it's never been recorded, so at the end of the day, do you really know what you're getting???
bloody hell, pretty much a new car then!Every stage of the repair was photographed and documented.
But it goes to show that there is no consistency, and every car should be judged individually.
There are plenty of cars out there that have suffered accident damage and it's never been recorded, so at the end of the day, do you really know what you're getting???
Im just off to drive into a lamppost so I can have my car fully refurbed !
how much has this loaded your premiums though?
I purchased a v8s on cat a "c". damage to the car was a wheel, trailing arm and a hole in the rear quater.the car was wrote of beacause the chassis outriggers had rusted out at the front so the insurance would not repair it. i have fully rebuilt this car with new chassis rails trailing arms,suspension wheels, full body repray. this car is now possibly better than new. various tvr specialits have seen the car and comented on the quality of the work.i would rather buy this car nowing it has all been refurbished than a 17 year old car with a hidden past or one that will need a major rebuild in the near future.
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