TVR PHOENIX - aka TVR 2008.....
TVR PHOENIX - aka TVR 2008.....
Author
Discussion

Lone Granger

Original Poster:

801 posts

273 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
Follow this link if you are interested in the possible rebirth of TVR cars

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

anonymous-user

84 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
Umm.... why the double post?

V8 GRF

7,299 posts

240 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all

Lone Granger

Original Poster:

801 posts

273 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
Umm.... why the double post?
because the previous heading does not pull in anyone interested in the re-birth of a TVR.....

Lone Granger

Original Poster:

801 posts

273 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
V8 GRF said:
most helpful - a little positive thinking too much to ask for?

V8 GRF

7,299 posts

240 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
most helpful - a little positive thinking too much to ask for?
Positive thinking is all well and good when you're being realistic. Ask a small, spotty russian guy who spent iro £40 million on buying and running a small car company in Blackpool if it's as easy as you think.

X8 Saggy

366 posts

232 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
over and over,
on and on........

nikman

878 posts

235 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
most helpful - a little positive thinking too much to ask for?
No it's not but it'll take a whole lot more than positive thinking to make this Phoenix rise from the ashes. Any start up project which doesn't make sense financially doesn't make sense in the real world at all. Realistic thinking is what'ds needed more than just positive thinking. Nick.

Lone Granger

Original Poster:

801 posts

273 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
V8 GRF said:
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
most helpful - a little positive thinking too much to ask for?
Positive thinking is all well and good when you're being realistic. Ask a small, spotty russian guy who spent iro £40 million on buying and running a small car company in Blackpool if it's as easy as you think.
Thats the whole bl**dy point - TVR was not small and it was not simple - got it?

V8 GRF

7,299 posts

240 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
most helpful - a little positive thinking too much to ask for?
Positive thinking is all well and good when you're being realistic. Ask a small, spotty russian guy who spent iro £40 million on buying and running a small car company in Blackpool if it's as easy as you think.
Thats the whole bl**dy point - TVR was not small and it was not simple - got it?
Building cars to the quality you're talking about is not a small or simple operation either.

nikman

878 posts

235 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
most helpful - a little positive thinking too much to ask for?
Positive thinking is all well and good when you're being realistic. Ask a small, spotty russian guy who spent iro £40 million on buying and running a small car company in Blackpool if it's as easy as you think.
Thats the whole bl**dy point - TVR was not small and it was not simple - got it?
Right, so it's not small, it's not simple and it'll cost a huge amount of risk capital. There is no dealership network and no proven demand for small volume manufacture cars of the price these would have to be.

Yes, thes a big fan base, 7,000 members of the TVR Car Club and countless others here on PH. But how many existing Wedge, S series, Griff, Cerb and Chim owners do you really think are out there today ABLE to throw 50 - 60 odd grand at such a car? Come on... best guess... No idea? Me neither but it's not many and not nearly enough upon which to base a sales forcast.

Then who do you have in mind to take that on? Ford? GM? Who wants it? Because of it's chequered history and truly dreadfiul public reputatation to overcome, this is almost harder than starting with a clean sheet of paper. Nick.

Lone Granger

Original Poster:

801 posts

273 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
nikman said:
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
Lone Granger said:
V8 GRF said:
most helpful - a little positive thinking too much to ask for?
Positive thinking is all well and good when you're being realistic. Ask a small, spotty russian guy who spent iro £40 million on buying and running a small car company in Blackpool if it's as easy as you think.
Thats the whole bl**dy point - TVR was not small and it was not simple - got it?
Right, so it's not small, it's not simple and it'll cost a huge amount of risk capital. There is no dealership network and no proven demand for small volume manufacture cars of the price these would have to be.

Yes, thes a big fan base, 7,000 members of the TVR Car Club and countless others here on PH. But how many existing Wedge, S series, Griff, Cerb and Chim owners do you really think are out there today ABLE to throw 50 - 60 odd grand at such a car? Come on... best guess... No idea? Me neither but it's not many and not nearly enough upon which to base a sales forcast.

Then who do you have in mind to take that on? Ford? GM? Who wants it? Because of it's chequered history and truly dreadfiul public reputatation to overcome, this is almost harder than starting with a clean sheet of paper. Nick.
please read the whole thread (and comment in the other main thread) - just tell me how cr*p you think the likes of Ultima and Westfield are??!! - Now tell me just how big their 'Dealer Network' is - then tell me how few cars they have made... - We are not talking about '£60k cars' nor are we talking about investing millions before selling first car...

bosscerbera

8,188 posts

273 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
nikman said:
Who wants it? Because of its chequered history and truly dreadful public reputation to overcome, this is almost harder than starting with a clean sheet of paper.
That just about sums it up.

GreenV8S

31,024 posts

314 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
Strikes me as wishful thinking, which is all very well and good when you're propped up at the bar but completely unrealistic, however much we might wish otherwise.

V8 GRF

7,299 posts

240 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
GreenV8S said:
Strikes me as wishful thinking, which is all very well and good when you're propped up at the bar but completely unrealistic, however much we might wish otherwise.
yes

Derek Smith

49,910 posts

278 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
One of the major problems with the re-bith of TVR as an international car company is the fact that the dollar is worthless so the hopes of the USA as a major market were way, way off. There was little hope of funds to pay for the de-facto new engine from Ricardo.

The costs for producng an all new car in today's legislation-heavy environment is phenominal. The LNT method of starting with a car that's already in production and modifying it is probably the only way of going without the support of a major car company. TVR as we know it is probably dead. I can't see any way it could even get up to the levels of pre-Griff days. 5000pa is just silly.

I was at the Top Gear place with the big Porsche (£300,000?) and the McLaren/Mercedes SLR (a bit more). The best interior of the new cars there was the Sagaris pre-production prototype. Mind you, the best one of all cars there was the Cerbera. Really stylish and quite breathtaking. What other manufacturer came near the quality, let alone at the price? I would have thought there would be a market for something like that, but that said, other similar low-volume car manufacturers are going under.

The best thing going for TVR was the expertise of the staff, not to mention their apparent willingness to work in conditions which would not be allowed under current H&S legislation. The was the question of less than reliable pay dates as well. But that's gone and with it a lot of the spirit of TVR.

Still, if someone came up with that badge on the bonnet, a shoehorned-in American V8, and an interior full of tasteful bling, wouldn't there be a lot of interest? Enough for a hundred or so each year for the beginning maybe.

Or maybe to start with lower aspirations, say and M-Type, a 3-litre coupe.

We can but hope.

nelly1

5,665 posts

261 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
V8 GRF said:
Positive thinking is all well and good when you're being realistic. Ask a small, spotty russian guy who spent iro £40 million on buying and ruining a small car company in Blackpool if it's as easy as you think.
EFA

jagdpanther

19,633 posts

249 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
SLOWER said:
Derek Smith said:
One of the major problems with the re-bith of TVR as an international car company is the fact that the dollar is worthless so the hopes of the USA as a major market were way, way off. There was little hope of funds to pay for the de-facto new engine from Ricardo.

The costs for producng an all new car in today's legislation-heavy environment is phenominal. The LNT method of starting with a car that's already in production and modifying it is probably the only way of going without the support of a major car company. TVR as we know it is probably dead. I can't see any way it could even get up to the levels of pre-Griff days. 5000pa is just silly.

I was at the Top Gear place with the big Porsche (£300,000?) and the McLaren/Mercedes SLR (a bit more). The best interior of the new cars there was the Sagaris pre-production prototype. Mind you, the best one of all cars there was the Cerbera. Really stylish and quite breathtaking. What other manufacturer came near the quality, let alone at the price? I would have thought there would be a market for something like that, but that said, other similar low-volume car manufacturers are going under.


The best thing going for TVR was the expertise of the staff, not to mention their apparent willingness to work in conditions which would not be allowed under current H&S legislation. The was the question of less than reliable pay dates as well. But that's gone and with it a lot of the spirit of TVR.

Still, if someone came up with that badge on the bonnet, a shoehorned-in American V8, and an interior full of tasteful bling, wouldn't there be a lot of interest? Enough for a hundred or so each year for the beginning maybe.

Or maybe to start with lower aspirations, say and M-Type, a 3-litre coupe.

We can but hope.
Good post Derek, agree with all you have said.smile
Im a bit shocked at Dereks use of the word bling and the name TVR being used together!

Shame on you Derek, shame on you hehe

Ive always said that an entry level TVR would be nice, but the cost of producing such a vehicle probably wouldnt hold any financial viability...admittedly, not from my calculations, but from the opinions and calculations of numerous members of PH, some of which have been with TVR for a long time.

The idea of everyone coming together with positive thoughts for TVR is very nice, and when the factory was in trouble, the majority of us stood proud saying that TVR would never die and sadly, both the workers and the enthusiasts were shit upon due to the complete and utter incompitence of one little Russian irked

As long as TVR has enthusiasts, the name and the spirit will never die, but as a company...its dead and burried for the immediate future unless someone with a whole shitload of cash and I do mean a shitload, comes along any negociates a deal with Smallendski...which, at the moment, I cant see happening because hes like a spoilt child with a dead pet frog....he just keeps holding on, squeezing tighter and tighter because he doesnt want to let go!

The financial commitment alone to get TVR back on its feet as a manufacturer again, is absolutely immense:

money to buy factory, rights and name, plus purchase equipment, employ staff, develop new car or even evolution of older car (lets face it, they cant churn out any old car and expect the public to buy it, it would need to be improved, altered to gain interest) then the money to market etc...it all adds up

My only thought is how would TVR survive if they came back as a low volume (I mean, sub 200 cars per year) complete kit manufacturer much like the old days or moreso, like Ultima are now????

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

226 months

Monday 17th December 2007
quotequote all
The young naive Russian has spunked a heap of his Daddy's cash and has surrounded himself with the most accomplished, worthless bum kissers of TVR past. His only interest in TVR now is in recouping his estimated 50m. The fact is that he never will; and he will therefore take the rights he still owns to the grave or drag them through the mud some more. The only thing he possesses right now that might be worth more than £20 is the brand name 'TVR'. The unfortunate thing is that he will never be seen to be the loser that he is (50m!). I will personally bare my 4rse in Burtons window if that halfwit ever recoups that amount of money. Game over.

Spend your time and money on a new venture in the spirit of TVR and call it something else. What are you passionate about, what the brand stood for or the three letters in the name?

ajcj

798 posts

235 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
quotequote all
Phoenix?

As in Rover?

getmecoat