Another idea....
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Discussion

Nickthebassist

Original Poster:

1,159 posts

246 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
quotequote all
It seems many people are cusotmising/building from scratch TVRs to race. This reminded me of the company Farboud, which I read about a while ago. I believe he took an existing car, the Porsche GT1, modified it, put a good engine in it, and sold them at around £85000. Why doesn't someone start making TVR trackday weaponry? There seems to be a market ofr it, and they could be built ot order on a very small scale.....

touching cloth

11,706 posts

269 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
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Sounds like the GTF to me, so already being done biggrin

jagdpanther

19,633 posts

249 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
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Theres no point making one to sell to those looking to race TVR's as those looking to race TVR's usually know someone who does race and can build their own...which to me, is a part of racing...plus, you can make whatever spec you want as long as it conforms to any particular regs

danger mouse

3,829 posts

291 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
quotequote all
OMFG,

Please please read up on your ideas before you post them.

The GTR-1 is ancient history as, now, is Farboud as company.

Google "Farbio" and "Arash" (separately) and while your at it "Marcos", to see where they are at now an object lesson in why this will also not work.

Loads of T400s were prepped/built as racers, some intresting Sagaris Bodied Tuscan challenge racers are being done as one offs with all the "right" engines and innovative drivelines, but due to IP laws these will never be production cars and a brand re-launch off the back of such small and inconsistant population of cars is just laughable.

Launching a new brand of "similar in spirit" beasts to skirt the IP issue is also equally untenable, as you would have to start from the absolute ground up (very very expensive) and be under no illusion, people who's IP you are essentially potentially "ripping-off" will be keeping a weather-eye upon you.

cobdoo

339 posts

239 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
quotequote all
danger mouse said:
OMFG,

Please please read up on your ideas before you post them.

The GTR-1 is ancient history as, now, is Farboud as company.

Google "Farbio" and "Arash" (separately) and while your at it "Marcos", to see where they are at now an object lesson in why this will also not work.

Loads of T400s were prepped/built as racers, some intresting Sagaris Bodied Tuscan challenge racers are being done as one offs with all the "right" engines and innovative drivelines, but due to IP laws these will never be production cars and a brand re-launch off the back of such small and inconsistant population of cars is just laughable.

Who owns the IP's..............?
whistle


Launching a new brand of "similar in spirit" beasts to skirt the IP issue is also equally untenable, as you would have to start from the absolute ground up (very very expensive) and be under no illusion, people who's IP you are essentially potentially "ripping-off" will be keeping a weather-eye upon you.
Who owns the IP's..............?
whistle



Edited by cobdoo on Tuesday 18th December 21:12

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

226 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
quotequote all
How long does design right exist for? I believe that all TVR's were unregistered designs and therefore fall under the UK design right catagory of IP. This means that the IP for the Grif has expired.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/design/d-applying/d-should/d...


PetrolTed

34,468 posts

333 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
quotequote all
Nickthebassist said:
...I believe he took an existing car, the Porsche GT1, modified it, put a good engine in it, and sold them at around £85000.
Not in the least bit accurate I'm afraid. He made a prototype/styling exercise that looked too much like a GT1 so had to start again with a fresh design.

He went on to design the Fabourd (now the Farbio in different ownership) which was designed from the ground up and built in house. He must have spent millions developing it and then sold the design before it was put into production.

danger mouse

3,829 posts

291 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
quotequote all
hoopdiddy07 said:
How long does design right exist for? I believe that all TVR's were unregistered designs and therefore fall under the UK design right catagory of IP. This means that the IP for the Grif has expired.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/design/d-applying/d-should/d...
You would be better placed than me to know that Hoopdiddy, and by the look of the page you quote, if it was unregistered, then you could be right in the case of the Griffith.

However, by Cobdoo's reply, I assume he knows who the owners of later IP are, and good for him. I'm sure he'd agree they would look out for their own intrests, which is all I was saying to the OP.

cobdoo

339 posts

239 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
quotequote all
danger mouse said:
hoopdiddy07 said:
How long does design right exist for? I believe that all TVR's were unregistered designs and therefore fall under the UK design right catagory of IP. This means that the IP for the Grif has expired.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/design/d-applying/d-should/d...
You would be better placed than me to know that Hoopdiddy, and by the look of the page you quote, if it was unregistered, then you could be right in the case of the Griffith.

However, by Cobdoo's reply, I assume he knows who the owners of later IP are, and good for him. I'm sure he'd agree they would look out for their own intrests, which is all I was saying to the OP.
As I said who owns the IP's ?

hoopdiddy07

88 posts

226 months

Tuesday 18th December 2007
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Christ, just realised what year we are nearly in. Basically, if unregistered, the whole TVR range is unprotected with the exception of anything first offered for sale before 1998. Wow, if I was interested in re-producing say an RVT Tuscan next year it could be done quite inexpensivley. All the development costs except tooling payed for.

BJWoods

5,018 posts

314 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
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i think 'inexpensive' may be a bit hopeful

PetrolTed

34,468 posts

333 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
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TVR Power bought the rights to the parts, it's quite possible that was tied up with IP too.

V8 GRF

7,299 posts

240 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
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PetrolTed said:
TVR Power bought the rights to the parts, it's quite possible that was tied up with IP too.
Initially they did, but didn't that change when NS realised he'd sold the most valuable bit off and changed his mind?
Hence the Multipart deal?

BJWoods

5,018 posts

314 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
quotequote all
V8 GRF said:
PetrolTed said:
TVR Power bought the rights to the parts, it's quite possible that was tied up with IP too.
Initially they did, but didn't that change when NS realised he'd sold the most valuable bit off and changed his mind?
Hence the Multipart deal?
i thought that was something due to the administrators, then ns bought it back from them.

V8 GRF

7,299 posts

240 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
quotequote all
BJWoods said:
V8 GRF said:
PetrolTed said:
TVR Power bought the rights to the parts, it's quite possible that was tied up with IP too.
Initially they did, but didn't that change when NS realised he'd sold the most valuable bit off and changed his mind?
Hence the Multipart deal?
i thought that was something due to the administrators, then ns bought it back from them.
I forget the timing but it was definitely an NS thing, probably after he bought it back from the administrators.

PetrolTed

34,468 posts

333 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
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Ah, fair enough. What a tangled web...

V8 GRF

7,299 posts

240 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
quotequote all
PetrolTed said:
Ah, fair enough. What a tangled web...
Only to be expected..... god what a mess.

Doesn't it just piss you off thinking about it? If it had been handled differently and he had tried to walk before he tried to go global. Reduced the workforce (at least some would have still had a job),closed part of the factory down, restricted the model range and consolidated it might still be here. He was ruthless but in the wrong areas. banghead

crackedfinger

1,569 posts

259 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
quotequote all
hoopdiddy07 said:
How long does design right exist for? I believe that all TVR's were unregistered designs and therefore fall under the UK design right catagory of IP. This means that the IP for the Grif has expired.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/design/d-applying/d-should/d...
Design rights and patents are two different methods of IP protection. Design right BTW lasts for a lot longer than patent applications. Think of design right as aesthetical and patent as mechanical design registrations.

But in reality there is no such thing as protection unless the holder of the IP has the will and the funding to persue the protection rights, which can be really expensive.

jev

391 posts

290 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
quotequote all
crackedfinger said:
Design rights and patents are two different methods of IP protection. Design right BTW lasts for a lot longer than patent applications. Think of design right as aesthetical and patent as mechanical design registrations.
No it doesn't. Design right lasts 10 years from 1st marketing. Patents last up to 20 years but last time I looked TVR didn't have any patents (they had one to the roof mechanism but this has now expired). The IP Smolenski was interested in was to the TVR name (including the trade mark registrations.

But so what - all one would get is something that looks like a TVR. The expertise has gone. frown



DJC

23,563 posts

266 months

Wednesday 19th December 2007
quotequote all
V8 GRF said:
PetrolTed said:
Ah, fair enough. What a tangled web...
Only to be expected..... god what a mess.

Doesn't it just piss you off thinking about it? If it had been handled differently and he had tried to walk before he tried to go global. Reduced the workforce (at least some would have still had a job),closed part of the factory down, restricted the model range and consolidated it might still be here. He was ruthless but in the wrong areas. banghead
Au contraire St Nic and his "investors" were very very ruthless.

TVR was never about the cars to St Nic.