Is it worth going from Chim 450 to a 500 or just buy a Cerb?

[kailear]

Am debating my next move; any thoughts gratefully accepted..

[Fire99]

From reading droves and droves of threads on the different performance characteristics of the 400,450 and 500, depending on the state of health of your 450 and the proposed 500 you may not find a significant difference.

If you want a very noticable performance upgrade and dont mind a hard-top and potentially higher running costs, go Cerb!

[Buffoon]

Go on! Go on! You know you want to Cerb it up. Be a Man!

[softtop]

You have done the V8 now, so either spend a wad on V8 enhancements or go Speed 6 or AJP.

[im]

I'm biased of course but why not SC it? You get to keep your car and don't have to worry about buying a lemon. You also get a car thats as quick as a Cerb up to about 120.

See Johnniem's comments here (he's got a 4.5 Chim):

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by im on Friday 4th January 15:45

[Byker28i]

Cerbera of course.

[dempsey]

I went from 4.5 Chimaera to 5.0 Chimaera to 4.5 Cerbera.

With each change the performance racked up considerably.

[Chimjunkie]

Interesting. I have a mildly upgraded 500. I drove a 450 not long ago and it was much slower. Again all cars vary. I would go for the 500 but change the cam and inlet manifolds plus get it remapped. That will give you a nice boost. My 500 keeps up with most cerbs and tuscan S cars. Only the really sorted ones get away. So, if you want to keep a soft top then upgrade the engine. Prob easiest way if you love the car is to supercharge. However, unless the rest of the car is upgraded then could become more expensive than changing to a cerb. I personally dont like long cars. As much as i love to admire the cerb, i could not own one.

Jon.

[Paxo1]

Chimjunkie said:

Interesting. My 500 keeps up with most cerbs and tuscan S cars. Only the really sorted ones get away. Jon.

No offense but have you actually driven a well setup cerb or timed against one? I cant relate to the chimeara as i havent driven one but from a respectable Griff 500 (which im sure is pretty much identical to the chim) to driving a cerb, the performance on cam in the cerb is just in a different league to the old rv8. I cant see a chimeara...even a mildly uprated one getting anywhere near...if it was supercharged or something maybe !

[Byker28i]

A Griff has what, around 280bhp 280 ft/lbs torque, against lets say my 4.2 Cerbera of 343bhp and 340 ft/lbs torque.
Both about the same weight, griff gives 0-60 in 4.7 secs, cerbera 4.2.

If you think about a properly sorted Cerbera 4.5 then you get 400-420bhp.

Admittedly you get different driver skills, but theres a reason the Cerbera is seen as the fastest TVR...

[Chimjunkie]

Paxo1 said:

Chimjunkie said:

Interesting. My 500 keeps up with most cerbs and tuscan S cars. Only the really sorted ones get away. Jon.

No offense but have you actually driven a well setup cerb or timed against one? I cant relate to the chimeara as i havent driven one but from a respectable Griff 500 (which im sure is pretty much identical to the chim) to driving a cerb, the performance on cam in the cerb is just in a different league to the old rv8. I cant see a chimeara...even a mildly uprated one getting anywhere near...if it was supercharged or something maybe !

No offence taken! IMHO a good 500 can easily be tuned up to around 300 bhp. Mine runs 290bhp (320ftlb), but and a big but, max power has nothing to do with acceleration. it's all to do with the area under the power curve and torque. My chim runs a Stealth cam, slightly improved heads, ported/polished inlet and properly set up by Mark adams. The power curve when overlaid on the average cerbera curve is very similar. If you use the cerb right at the top of the power range then some headway may be gained. The overall driving experience is therefore similar. Why do i need to drive or be timed against a cerb? Not talking about the race track. In my convoy encounters on the road i have matched the pace of cerberas (including 4.5's) and Tuscan S's much to their surprise. I'm not saying a tuned up 500 RV8 is faster than a AJP or Speed6, but rather comparable in real road use. Again all in my experiences with my car and all IMHO.

Ask Im about his supercharged 400 and the cerb eating characteristics! This has a very similar power curve to my engine. except for the last few hundred rpm where the peak power goes higher on the supercharged engine.

Hope this clarifies what i am trying to say.

Though cerbs were heavier as well?

Jon.

[Byker28i]

Ah so lets just get this right - you're comparing a tuned up Chim/Griff against a standard Cerbera?

Weight - I thought the griff was only about 30kg lighter at best
PH gives the Chim about the same weight as my car 1080kg
http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/chimaera/

[im]

Chimjunkie said:

Ask Im about his supercharged 400 and the cerb eating characteristics! This has a very similar power curve to my engine. except for the last few hundred rpm where the peak power goes higher on the supercharged engine.

Hope this clarifies what i am trying to say.

Thought cerbs were heavier as well?

Jon.

CJ is correct. All things being equal, up to about 120 (...on track )no standard Cerb will or has passed me and a couple have seriously tried.

Dom at TVR Power took his SC400 abroad a year or two ago and had the same experience against the Cerbs travelling with him.

But remember I am saying STANDARD Cerb (4.2 or rv8 4.5). After 120+, they do indeed pass with their foot to the floor and their balls fully out but up to that point I'm gone - they need to play catch up a little bit.

Christ knows what a SC500 would do when matched to a STANDARD Cerb although the Cerbs top-end will always win out.

Having said all that I LOVE CERBS and will own one day - I just need to refinance the house in order to compensate for the increased maintenance costs first ...

Got to also say I cant believe a Chim and Cerb weigh the same - if for no other reason than the Cerb has the tin-top (or is it all fibre glass?) versus the Chim's part cloth/fibre glass. Additional seating/seat belts etc...

All IMHO

[Chimjunkie]

Byker28i said:

Ah so lets just get this right - you're comparing a tuned up Chim/Griff against a standard Cerbera?

Weight - I thought the griff was only about 30kg lighter at best
PH gives the Chim about the same weight as my car 1080kg
http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/chimaera/

Yes indeed. As the OP asked if worth changing from a 450 to 500. My point was that a 500 with some work can give similar real world performance to the later TVR's. Certainly not comparing std with std!!!

Jon.

[bosscerbera]

im said:

CJ is correct. All things being equal, up to about 120 (...on track ) no standard Cerb will or has passed me and a couple have seriously tried.

I drove the door handles off Dom's 400SC at Rockingham for demo rides. It's fast for an RV8 car, and the engine felt great.

But faster than a Cerbera? Sorry, not a hope.

[Chimjunkie]

One thing i do notice with the RV8 and that is the acceleration is very smooth. A car with a more on cam characteristic, such as my other halfs turboed Lotus Europa, gives out phenomenal surges of acceleration making the lotus feel quicker. In reality it is not. Not arguing with anyone, but can promise to not use full throttle so i dont step out of my place in the TVR hierarchy!!

[Johnniem]

kailear said:

Am debating my next move; any thoughts gratefully accepted..

Having ridden in IM's supercharged 400 (see above) I would firmly suggest that you look seriously at supercharging options. I have a 450 and I was completely blown away by the power of the SC 400. It is definitely a Ferrari beater and would kick most porkers into touch, easily. And that is the base model 400. The 450 should be far more punchy! I don't know where you are but it might be beneficial to talk with IM at some point before you make the final decision. I can promise you would be astonished by the acceleration. I cannot comment about cerbs except to say that they are gorgeous to look at!

If your 450 has a reasonable mileage for its age, is in excellent mechanical condition and you still love to drive it then supercharging will make it a real monster and I suspect for a fraction of the cost of changing cars. All in IMHO of course. Happy decision making kailear!

[spants]

My cerb 4.5 lw was "much quicker" (ie felt much quicker) than my taraka 500 chim

Tony

[bosscerbera]

Chimjunkie said:

One thing i do notice with the RV8 and that is the acceleration is very smooth.

I agree - it didn't feel like a blown car to me, it just felt like a car with a much bigger engine. Must be lovely to drive on the roads.

[Uncle Fester]

bosscerbera said:

im said:

CJ is correct. All things being equal, up to about 120 (...on track ) no standard Cerb will or has passed me and a couple have seriously tried.

I drove the door handles off Dom's 400SC at Rockingham for demo rides. It's fast for an RV8 car, and the engine felt great.

But faster than a Cerbera? Sorry, not a hope.

I went round in the 500 and was impressed. I haved also seen a N/A racing Griff hold off a racing Cerb. The Cerb was obviously a bit quicker, but not enough to get past. In the end it came down to the better man, not the better car.

So how much power do you think a Griff would need to equal the Cerb? Is it just a question of power, or is the Cerb handling that much different that it can't be equaled with the right setup?

For me it's not just performance. I want the soft top too. So it's a case of quicken the Griff to match the Cerb, or cut the roof off a Cerb.

Which route would you think the best to achieve that for mostly road use? tune, supercharge or transplant?

Edited by Uncle Fester on Saturday 5th January 23:41