Discussion
Hi everyone,
I was hoping that you could advise, guild me in the right direction with regards to a TVR.
To cut a long story short, I like you all started always have wanted a TVR and am now in a position to purchase one. Unfortunately like allot of you I'm not in a position to have it as a summer car or even a weekend car and will be used daily. My mileage fluctuates annually so I can't say that I will do 15k a year nor 6k but as I said it will be used daily in one capacity or another.
I have spent allot of time looking at all sorts of garages, and streams on here around usage, servicing so I'm fully aware of what I'm getting into and basically can't wait to buy one.....BUT, I was looking at a T350c as recommended by a number of TVR suppliers as being perfect for what I want, but then was thrown a spanner by another saying a Mk2 Tuscan would be also a good option with more space in the cabin and boot almost taking on a grande tourer idea, which then throws into the mix a Cebera.
Arhhhh WHAT DO I DO!! haha please advise what your thoughts are....
I've seen a fantastic Tuscan but its 2001, so not a MK2! does this make a massive difference with regards to build, reliability etc etc??? I have no idea.
As I said my initial thought was to get a T350c and had my mind set until I was thrown a spanner!! haha am I better going for one of the other two or should I just count them out, please list reasons.
I'm just trying to return my search to just one model again, and discount the other two.
I look forward to your feedback
Regards
J
I was hoping that you could advise, guild me in the right direction with regards to a TVR.
To cut a long story short, I like you all started always have wanted a TVR and am now in a position to purchase one. Unfortunately like allot of you I'm not in a position to have it as a summer car or even a weekend car and will be used daily. My mileage fluctuates annually so I can't say that I will do 15k a year nor 6k but as I said it will be used daily in one capacity or another.
I have spent allot of time looking at all sorts of garages, and streams on here around usage, servicing so I'm fully aware of what I'm getting into and basically can't wait to buy one.....BUT, I was looking at a T350c as recommended by a number of TVR suppliers as being perfect for what I want, but then was thrown a spanner by another saying a Mk2 Tuscan would be also a good option with more space in the cabin and boot almost taking on a grande tourer idea, which then throws into the mix a Cebera.
Arhhhh WHAT DO I DO!! haha please advise what your thoughts are....
I've seen a fantastic Tuscan but its 2001, so not a MK2! does this make a massive difference with regards to build, reliability etc etc??? I have no idea.
As I said my initial thought was to get a T350c and had my mind set until I was thrown a spanner!! haha am I better going for one of the other two or should I just count them out, please list reasons.
I'm just trying to return my search to just one model again, and discount the other two.
I look forward to your feedback
Regards
J
At the end of the day, they are all a bit of a leap of faith - sounds like you should do a 'face to face' comparisson. That way, the one for you should become clear. Go to your local TVRCC meeting where you will have the chance to not only see various models but also chat to some people with first hand experience.
For fear of stirring up a hornets nest, just be aware of the problems experienced by many speed 6 engined cars. The ones you mention all have that engine. The Cerbera though also comes with the AJPV8 in 4.2 or 4.5 which may be more reliable in the long term.
The speed 6 cars seem to be plummeting in price at the moment, so there are probably some bargains to be had. The money you save could go towards a rebuild if and when the time comes if you find youhave your heart set on one.
There is a thread on here at the moment (Obvious signs of when you might need a rebuild on a S6 ?????) which highlights the speed 6 issues.
Don't disregard the Chimaera or the Griffith for your first car, especially if you will keep it garaged (they can leak a bit!). They both give a blinding drive and generally have more reliability than the newer cars, since they use tried & tested components (Rover V8 engines etc).
You could get the newest you could find for the sort of money you are thinking of paying and end up with a car to be proud of.
Good luck,
Mick
For fear of stirring up a hornets nest, just be aware of the problems experienced by many speed 6 engined cars. The ones you mention all have that engine. The Cerbera though also comes with the AJPV8 in 4.2 or 4.5 which may be more reliable in the long term.
The speed 6 cars seem to be plummeting in price at the moment, so there are probably some bargains to be had. The money you save could go towards a rebuild if and when the time comes if you find youhave your heart set on one.
There is a thread on here at the moment (Obvious signs of when you might need a rebuild on a S6 ?????) which highlights the speed 6 issues.
Don't disregard the Chimaera or the Griffith for your first car, especially if you will keep it garaged (they can leak a bit!). They both give a blinding drive and generally have more reliability than the newer cars, since they use tried & tested components (Rover V8 engines etc).
You could get the newest you could find for the sort of money you are thinking of paying and end up with a car to be proud of.
Good luck,
Mick
AlexanderV8 said:
The speed 6 cars seem to be plummeting in price at the moment
errm are they ?? where are you looking...not anywhere ive seen ? is that just wishful thinking so you can buy one....say it often enough etc etcDont let the reputation of the S6 engined cars put you off. Its nearly always someone with no experience of an S6 that gives the advice which i find quite annoying. I have owned both. Whatever annoying garbage other people say about the S6 its an absolute gem of a motor and when the revs are in the right place you will not stop smiling. They need to be warmed up by the book...if you dont respect the warming up it will eventually break....period.
Whatever you go for i doubt you will be disapointed...it sounds like you have done your homework and at the end of the day its really down to personal choice..but make sure you dont go in expecting perfection as you wont find it in a TVR. You will love it though. I find the T350 totally practical as an everyday car but im sure i would find the same with the Tuscan or cerbera.
Dont discount the V8 cars either as they are superb although you need to bear in mind you will be looking at a much older car !
Edited by Paxo1 on Saturday 26th January 10:35
AlexanderV8 said:
The speed 6 cars seem to be plummeting in price at the moment
There is a side to Pistonheads forums that has saved many of us from a trip to the dealers/specialists, helped make our cars better, or just made the day at work go quicker. Though there currently seems a divide in the ranks more significant than our jocular ribbing of Porsche drives.I have a car with a Speed 6 engine so may with the current wave of posts be sensitive to the sort of unqualified guff quoted above. If we are giving advice to someone who is thinking of buying a car at least have something statistical to back up an opinion. If a number of dealers have recommended a T350 or Tuscan 2 then surely there is some merit in the idea? Or are you suggesting they are all self serving?
I look on the Cerbera forum as an ex-Cerbera owner and at no point do any of the SP6 drivers write the equivalent of sucking air in through their teeth and go, "thats the V8 for you".
Back on topic. I don't use mine every day so hopefully someone will be along soon who does, but if you do 15k a year that is at least one 12k service per year so try and get an idea of the running costs first. My 12k service has just cost £1800 including getting a few extra bits done, which I don't think is that unusual.
When I was doing this sort of mileage I had a Peugeot 406 Coupe as well for everyday driving. The cost of buying/running will easily be offset from the daily running of the TVR. This may make a heart decision easier as "perceived reliability" won't be such an issue.
This is what worked for me and I am by no means saying that they can't be used everyday. If I were you I would test drive all three/four. If you have wanted a TVR for a long time buy the model you really want, otherwise you will get that sinking feeling the first TVR meet you go to.....
Justin,
The three posts above have some excellent advice.The one directly below yours unfortunately has lots of misplaced guff after a reasonable first paragraph, it does hwoever recover towards the end...
What ever you chose (if indeed it is a TVR) I hope it serves your purpose and you enjoy ownership.
The three posts above have some excellent advice.The one directly below yours unfortunately has lots of misplaced guff after a reasonable first paragraph, it does hwoever recover towards the end...
What ever you chose (if indeed it is a TVR) I hope it serves your purpose and you enjoy ownership.
Ok, it looks like I did stir up the hornets nest, and for that I apologise.
However, when the word 'guff' is used twice as a response to what was meant as a helpful guide for someone asking for advice, IMO it is that type of terminology which seeks to be counter-productive and prevents a balanced viewpoint.
What are we supposed to say then? That all speed 6 cars are fine & without problems? That they are not losing any value at the moment?
If people want to bury their heads in the sand and criticise others for their lack of understanding of the issues, without any knowledge of why those conclusions were reached, then I suppose it's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion.
First, let me say that I love all TVRs. Let me also say that when I was about to enter the TVR world, I too loved the T350 and the Tuscan. I went to perhaps one of the most highly regarded dealerships for advice and to look over the models.
My 'guff' conclusion was reached after in-depth discussion with the mechanics and salesmen at that dealership. With amazing honesty they were the ones that steered me away from those models and pointed me in the direction of the Griffith & Chimaera. This was around the time of the sale of TVR and they even suggested that the surfacing engine problems were a contributory factor in offloading the company.
I wasn't going to write that in my original post due to sensitivities. Because of the tone of the replies however, I am now prepared to let a couple of people know that just because someone doesn't own a speed 6 car, they can still have done some serious research on the subject.
I did not say anything that hasn't already been mentioned in the other thread relating to speed 6 issues and by speed 6 owners themselves. I referred to this thread in my original post. Reading the posts in that thread absolutely backs up what I was informed a few years ago.
On that thread there are some serious concerns amongst speed 6 owners which they feel need addressing. IMO their points are intelligently and eloquently made and combine the mixture of uncertainty and anger which I too would feel in that situation.
Don't get me wrong, I love the thought of one of those cars. I think they are stunning. I think the engines sound great and perform brilliantly. At the moment though I would not take a chance on one but that's not to say I never will. It was purely that view I was attempting to put across.
However, when the word 'guff' is used twice as a response to what was meant as a helpful guide for someone asking for advice, IMO it is that type of terminology which seeks to be counter-productive and prevents a balanced viewpoint.
What are we supposed to say then? That all speed 6 cars are fine & without problems? That they are not losing any value at the moment?
If people want to bury their heads in the sand and criticise others for their lack of understanding of the issues, without any knowledge of why those conclusions were reached, then I suppose it's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion.
First, let me say that I love all TVRs. Let me also say that when I was about to enter the TVR world, I too loved the T350 and the Tuscan. I went to perhaps one of the most highly regarded dealerships for advice and to look over the models.
My 'guff' conclusion was reached after in-depth discussion with the mechanics and salesmen at that dealership. With amazing honesty they were the ones that steered me away from those models and pointed me in the direction of the Griffith & Chimaera. This was around the time of the sale of TVR and they even suggested that the surfacing engine problems were a contributory factor in offloading the company.
I wasn't going to write that in my original post due to sensitivities. Because of the tone of the replies however, I am now prepared to let a couple of people know that just because someone doesn't own a speed 6 car, they can still have done some serious research on the subject.
I did not say anything that hasn't already been mentioned in the other thread relating to speed 6 issues and by speed 6 owners themselves. I referred to this thread in my original post. Reading the posts in that thread absolutely backs up what I was informed a few years ago.
On that thread there are some serious concerns amongst speed 6 owners which they feel need addressing. IMO their points are intelligently and eloquently made and combine the mixture of uncertainty and anger which I too would feel in that situation.
Don't get me wrong, I love the thought of one of those cars. I think they are stunning. I think the engines sound great and perform brilliantly. At the moment though I would not take a chance on one but that's not to say I never will. It was purely that view I was attempting to put across.
I can see both perspectives, but OTOH I'm puzzled about why a word of caution about the S6-engined models given that the OP could well find himself covering 15 K miles per annum, should be classed as 'guff' (apart from the remark about S6 cars shedding their values at present - it's fair to say prices are low at the moment, but looking at the low end of the scale it's pretty much at the same 15-17K for an early Tuscan is it was 12 months ago).
There's still debate about what exactly the issues are with the S6, whether they were resolved at some point and crucually how many miles one should expect from one before needing attention beyond regular servicing. This does not strike me as a particularly good scenario for someone who is looking at a daily driver, unless (s)he is prepared to have a few thousands set apart for corrective action if and when necessary. One could not need the outlay for a few years to come, but by the same token one could need it tomorrow. There's simply not enough S6-engined cars out there that have covered 50-100K miles to have any point of reference.
There's still debate about what exactly the issues are with the S6, whether they were resolved at some point and crucually how many miles one should expect from one before needing attention beyond regular servicing. This does not strike me as a particularly good scenario for someone who is looking at a daily driver, unless (s)he is prepared to have a few thousands set apart for corrective action if and when necessary. One could not need the outlay for a few years to come, but by the same token one could need it tomorrow. There's simply not enough S6-engined cars out there that have covered 50-100K miles to have any point of reference.
I had a similar thought process to you, eventually went with a Cerbera S6 with a TVR Power rebuilt engine as the most daily usable, winter-friendly, hedged-against-engine-trouble option. I put 8,000 miles on in six months without any trouble, and she has never failed to start on the first press of the button. I don't know what else i can ask of a car that will do 100 in just over ten seconds.
I envy the Tuscan drivers in the hot weather as I do enjoy a convertible, but I can't fault the Cerb for all-round enjoyment, I have comfortably taken two adults and two kids on a week's holiday, and I believe the S6 is easier than the V8s to keep out of the hedge when it's raining. I also think it sounds better, but that's about as subjective a view as you can get.
Don't imagine from the fora posts on here that buying a V8 is a passport to trouble-free motoring while buying a S6 is a one-way ticket to penury: it ain't so. TVRs are not a rational purchase, so go with what gets your mojo working, then find the best example you can.
I envy the Tuscan drivers in the hot weather as I do enjoy a convertible, but I can't fault the Cerb for all-round enjoyment, I have comfortably taken two adults and two kids on a week's holiday, and I believe the S6 is easier than the V8s to keep out of the hedge when it's raining. I also think it sounds better, but that's about as subjective a view as you can get.
Don't imagine from the fora posts on here that buying a V8 is a passport to trouble-free motoring while buying a S6 is a one-way ticket to penury: it ain't so. TVRs are not a rational purchase, so go with what gets your mojo working, then find the best example you can.
If you want reliability, buy a Honda Accord or Civic.
If you want some fun, it's got to be a TVR. I would suggest that you test drive one, as they are significantly different from even standard sports cars (I moved from Porsche to TVR and it was a big step up in terms of driving demands).
If you want some fun, it's got to be a TVR. I would suggest that you test drive one, as they are significantly different from even standard sports cars (I moved from Porsche to TVR and it was a big step up in terms of driving demands).
ajcj said:
I had a similar thought process to you, eventually went with a Cerbera S6 with a TVR Power rebuilt engine as the most daily usable, winter-friendly, hedged-against-engine-trouble option. I put 8,000 miles on in six months without any trouble, and she has never failed to start on the first press of the button. I don't know what else i can ask of a car that will do 100 in just over ten seconds.
I envy the Tuscan drivers in the hot weather as I do enjoy a convertible, but I can't fault the Cerb for all-round enjoyment, I have comfortably taken two adults and two kids on a week's holiday, and I believe the S6 is easier than the V8s to keep out of the hedge when it's raining. I also think it sounds better, but that's about as subjective a view as you can get.
Don't imagine from the fora posts on here that buying a V8 is a passport to trouble-free motoring while buying a S6 is a one-way ticket to penury: it ain't so. TVRs are not a rational purchase, so go with what gets your mojo working, then find the best example you can.
I go with aj here although I might suggest the 450 Chimaera as a good first Tiv. Firstly it's a very fast car (not the fastest of course, before anyone shouts about their's being the fastest!) but it will be reliable and wont smash the pocket to bits. I researched a lot before I bought and chose a good car, with the help of current owners and Rob Ingleby. I have now covered 6000 trouble-free, grin-full miles since May 2007 and get the first service done soon. I suspect that'll be about £600 once I have added a few "want one of those" decisions. In my view that is a lot of car for not much folding stuff. In any event the TVR decision is one of the heart, not one of the head.I envy the Tuscan drivers in the hot weather as I do enjoy a convertible, but I can't fault the Cerb for all-round enjoyment, I have comfortably taken two adults and two kids on a week's holiday, and I believe the S6 is easier than the V8s to keep out of the hedge when it's raining. I also think it sounds better, but that's about as subjective a view as you can get.
Don't imagine from the fora posts on here that buying a V8 is a passport to trouble-free motoring while buying a S6 is a one-way ticket to penury: it ain't so. TVRs are not a rational purchase, so go with what gets your mojo working, then find the best example you can.
Good luck matey. I suspect you'll end up with a V8, in whatever form but whatever you choose, treat the car with respect until you know how to handle it (if you don't already that is! No disrespect but you didn't say if you had owned a sports car before). Finally, remember buy on condition, condition, condition and blue ones are fastest!
Thank you for all your views, as I expected there are some split opinions but all good information at the end of the day. You lot are the experts being owners and a status I hope to be soon.
Please keep the information/views coming, as it’s good and allows me expand my knowledge along with weigh up the pro's and cons to make my mind up.
Again thank you all for taking the time out and responding to my post……and helping out "The new boy!" haha
Regards
Justin
Please keep the information/views coming, as it’s good and allows me expand my knowledge along with weigh up the pro's and cons to make my mind up.
Again thank you all for taking the time out and responding to my post……and helping out "The new boy!" haha
Regards
Justin
Who are you calling an expert?!We all love 'em - that's going to give you a rather one-sided view.
It's definitely a personal thing - you gotta try one (or many). If you're like us, you'll be a fan for life and never be short of something to do at the weekend or somewhere to spend your hard-earned.
TVRs don't suit everyone though - they're (typically*) noisy and smelly - but stonkingly fast.
*Not always
Well said Lord Grover. I love them but fully accept they are not for everyone. I was lucky enough to but my first in the mid 70s, and I currently have 2. I'm no mechanic and not rich, so you can assume my running costs have not been too high. I've not had reliabliity issues, off the top of my head an alternator and new battery in the last 3 years (of 3 S's and 2 Cerbs) - oh and a freak accidental fire.
It's a great idea to go for a test drive in some. Contact people on here and ask if they'll take you out, go along to PH or TVRCC meetings. Time spent looking could be an investment (in money and pleasure).
Whichever model you choose, just go for one. Dave
It's a great idea to go for a test drive in some. Contact people on here and ask if they'll take you out, go along to PH or TVRCC meetings. Time spent looking could be an investment (in money and pleasure).
Whichever model you choose, just go for one. Dave
There are a few few owners who use them daily with minimal issue. We've been driving a Griff 500 for nearly 5 years daily and we have had some niggles. Servicing budget around £1000 pa plus the usual battery, alternator, coil etc replacements. Do around 8-10k per year so not excessive. Not garaged with the odd leak in very bad weather but easily sorted. Just need to be looked after and do as much preventative stuff as you can.
I also drove a Taimar for 7 years every day doing 12k pa and that was challenging but then it was 14 years old and 125k miles when I bought it and they do need a bit more TLC than the newer cars.
FFG
I also drove a Taimar for 7 years every day doing 12k pa and that was challenging but then it was 14 years old and 125k miles when I bought it and they do need a bit more TLC than the newer cars.
FFG
Okay my 2p worth
Daisy - '99 Chim 450 bought 3 years ago on 47K - now over 106K. 1 issue which was the door solanoid.
Cluctch changed at 84K, cam about to be changed. Doesnt leak (Fabsil the roof), chassis OK - waxoyled. Used daily (snow/ice/rain/wind/sun) no problems.
Dad ran all TVR's as daily cars but his case is a bit different.
Now I have a Sag as well so they get used euqlly - as Mum said, you cant drive them both at once.
Sag is great and more stable than the Chim, SP6 engine is very good. Just make sure you keep ontop of the oil checks and any servicing (tappetts).
My advice..? Get the one you want and have fun be it a RV8/AJP/SP6
Claire
Daisy - '99 Chim 450 bought 3 years ago on 47K - now over 106K. 1 issue which was the door solanoid.
Cluctch changed at 84K, cam about to be changed. Doesnt leak (Fabsil the roof), chassis OK - waxoyled. Used daily (snow/ice/rain/wind/sun) no problems.
Dad ran all TVR's as daily cars but his case is a bit different.
Now I have a Sag as well so they get used euqlly - as Mum said, you cant drive them both at once.
Sag is great and more stable than the Chim, SP6 engine is very good. Just make sure you keep ontop of the oil checks and any servicing (tappetts).
My advice..? Get the one you want and have fun be it a RV8/AJP/SP6
Claire
Is it just me or does every thread now contain a Sp6 vs V8 debate? How about a build quality debate? I think the Chim's and Griff's are better built. Have been looking at several Tamora's recently and though my Chim was far better trimmed and standing up to wear and tear better. I couln't believe it when i looked at a Sagaris and Tuscan at the NEC car show with many obvious imperfections in the trim, panel fitting and head light trim. For F
K sake it's a car show. The cars should be perfect! NO EXCUSE. TVR really did not do themselves any favours.
K sake it's a car show. The cars should be perfect! NO EXCUSE. TVR really did not do themselves any favours.Indeed, my '93 Chimaera - as well as most other Griffmaeras I've sampled - feels rather better built (more solid, less rattles, more snug and less wind noise with roof and windows closed, better fit and finish, less fiddling around with doors and windows) than the '03 Tuscan demonstrator I've had the pleasure of driving a couple of years ago.
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