Buyers' Beware !
Discussion
After several months of studying PistonHeads Classifieds, looking for Chimeras and the same length of time looking at the Forum for hints and tips, this morning I decided to take the plunge and make a serious enquiry with a seller.
The 'gentleman' was from South Wales and the car was a category C/D repair! Using advice taken from the Forum and my own limited knowledge of TVRs I compiled a list of questions which I felt relevant to the vehicle. This is a very obvious thing to do when enquiring regarding TVR's (ie state of chassis, engine servicing etc.).
So, the first thing I asked him, was it Category C or D? He wasn't sure and thought it was both!!! As far as I know it can only be one or the other. Of course one of them being a write-off. I asked him what the insurance company said and he said "I have still got the log book but if you do an HPI check, it will come back as a write-off". Which, of course, doesn't ring right as the insurance company, to my knowledge, keeps the log book to keep it off the road.
My next question was, when it had been repaired was it inspected by the approved engineers. His answer "Why!"
My reply "because it was a write-off". He didn't like my comment. My feeling being that this car has not been inspected, as he obviously could not answer it.
I asked about the condition of the chassis and whether he had checked it out after the accident and repair. His answer "No!" and "Why!" I promptly told him that it been in an accident and the state that some Chimera chassis can get into normally, at which point he asked me if I had seen any more Chims chassis', which I have. (I have seen a very bad one). It was at this point when I was starting to get a little bit technical that his attitude started to change. In fact, at this point he told me that he didn't think this vehicle would suit me and I was looking for a perfect specimen and started rapidly to wind up the conversation and eventually put the phone down on me!!!!
You will note from this that I have not asked anything too heavy, just the standard questions that anyone would ask.
So what is this guy hiding? Is this car an insurance write-off and he's repaired it and put it back on the road? In the conversation he actually said the car was in regular use.
Something doesn't ring true. I was not getting the sort of replies from a TVR enthusiast wishing to sell his car.
I was hoping for a bit of TVR talk from someone I was quite willing to buy the car from, not someone who puts the phone down on you.
I hope all TVR owners are NOT like this guy as I don't want to fall at the first hurdle!
The 'gentleman' was from South Wales and the car was a category C/D repair! Using advice taken from the Forum and my own limited knowledge of TVRs I compiled a list of questions which I felt relevant to the vehicle. This is a very obvious thing to do when enquiring regarding TVR's (ie state of chassis, engine servicing etc.).
So, the first thing I asked him, was it Category C or D? He wasn't sure and thought it was both!!! As far as I know it can only be one or the other. Of course one of them being a write-off. I asked him what the insurance company said and he said "I have still got the log book but if you do an HPI check, it will come back as a write-off". Which, of course, doesn't ring right as the insurance company, to my knowledge, keeps the log book to keep it off the road.
My next question was, when it had been repaired was it inspected by the approved engineers. His answer "Why!"
My reply "because it was a write-off". He didn't like my comment. My feeling being that this car has not been inspected, as he obviously could not answer it.
I asked about the condition of the chassis and whether he had checked it out after the accident and repair. His answer "No!" and "Why!" I promptly told him that it been in an accident and the state that some Chimera chassis can get into normally, at which point he asked me if I had seen any more Chims chassis', which I have. (I have seen a very bad one). It was at this point when I was starting to get a little bit technical that his attitude started to change. In fact, at this point he told me that he didn't think this vehicle would suit me and I was looking for a perfect specimen and started rapidly to wind up the conversation and eventually put the phone down on me!!!!
You will note from this that I have not asked anything too heavy, just the standard questions that anyone would ask.
So what is this guy hiding? Is this car an insurance write-off and he's repaired it and put it back on the road? In the conversation he actually said the car was in regular use.
Something doesn't ring true. I was not getting the sort of replies from a TVR enthusiast wishing to sell his car.
I was hoping for a bit of TVR talk from someone I was quite willing to buy the car from, not someone who puts the phone down on you.
I hope all TVR owners are NOT like this guy as I don't want to fall at the first hurdle!
On a positive note I bought my 500 Chim from a true enthusiast, S5TVR, and have never looked back!
After checking out the spec on the things Simon had done, meeting him and doing the deal, I had complete confidence in the car and, perhaps more importantly, in the seller.
If I had to buy a car tomorrow I would ask Simon if he had one for sale.
IMHO it is the person more than the car (I'll wait for the FLAMES) because whatever car it is, things can be hidden.
When you ask questions of the person and get dodgy answers, WALK AWAY!
After checking out the spec on the things Simon had done, meeting him and doing the deal, I had complete confidence in the car and, perhaps more importantly, in the seller.
If I had to buy a car tomorrow I would ask Simon if he had one for sale.
IMHO it is the person more than the car (I'll wait for the FLAMES) because whatever car it is, things can be hidden.
When you ask questions of the person and get dodgy answers, WALK AWAY!
There's another 90 cars in the classifieds to look at 
If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
We will Always look over a TVR what ever the age for Free. To make sure TVR car club members are getting a good deal when buying a used TVR. You must be able to get the said vehicle to our workshop for a full inspection. www.greenstarracing.com
Hi, I notice this is your first post on here and clearly it's not been a good experience (well written post though).
If 'written off' a car is one of 4 categories, each of which is a write off. The categories refer to the state, and (I'm sure you may well know) it's important to know which cat it is so you can work out the value. The car cannot be in two categories.
As posted above, contact some locals, someone will help you.
With all things in life, my head rules my heart. With TVRs its the other way round. For that reason, 2 of the last 3 I bought I took my MOT examiner with me and let him test it (I know what the drive like, and if I drove one I know I'd want it) so I kept at a distance. The latest one I bought from a dealer who I trust a great deal. I suppose it's a bit odd really as I quite often go with female friends to help them when buying.
Whatever you do, good luck with your choice.
If 'written off' a car is one of 4 categories, each of which is a write off. The categories refer to the state, and (I'm sure you may well know) it's important to know which cat it is so you can work out the value. The car cannot be in two categories.
As posted above, contact some locals, someone will help you.
With all things in life, my head rules my heart. With TVRs its the other way round. For that reason, 2 of the last 3 I bought I took my MOT examiner with me and let him test it (I know what the drive like, and if I drove one I know I'd want it) so I kept at a distance. The latest one I bought from a dealer who I trust a great deal. I suppose it's a bit odd really as I quite often go with female friends to help them when buying.
Whatever you do, good luck with your choice.
:Not quite correct about log book and formal inspection.
Cat D normally comes with log book and does not require any formal inspection. Some Cat D's stay on the road untill repaired (depends on damage)
Cat C does not come with log book and requires inspection but only to confirm VIN plate etc. match. It is not a safety inspection.
Not suggesting its not a good idea to have checks done just clarifying my understanding of the situation which may expain the sellers response to some of your questions.
(I have no connection with seller)
r's
David
Cat D normally comes with log book and does not require any formal inspection. Some Cat D's stay on the road untill repaired (depends on damage)
Cat C does not come with log book and requires inspection but only to confirm VIN plate etc. match. It is not a safety inspection.
Not suggesting its not a good idea to have checks done just clarifying my understanding of the situation which may expain the sellers response to some of your questions.
(I have no connection with seller)
r's
David
Edited by djc1001 on Tuesday 26th February 09:29
RUSSELLM said:
There's another 90 cars in the classifieds to look at
If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I take that back.If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I've just realised that the OP is on about the Ad that has the title "Cat C/D repaired"
You must have been in total shock, when you found out he wasn't lying.
Whatever drew you towards that advert ? Why don't you pick out one of the other cars listed that aren't on the register.
I'm a firm believer that there's two sides to every story. I'd have loved to have heard that conversation
It's worthy of note that Cat D and Cat C salvage are not representative of damage itself. That is to say, Cat D can be really minor damage (like for example a vehicle being 'keyed' across several panels), but Cat D can also represent a lot of accident damage. The same applies to Cat C. So it's entirely possible that one vehicle could have 'key' damage and be Cat C, and another vehicle could have been involved in a pretty heavy shunt and be a Cat D.
It's more important in my opinion to know how well the vehicle has been repaired. It helps more if the vehicles damage is know previous to the repair. I wouldn't walk away from a damage repaired properly vehicle unless the price was close enough to a similar vehicle on offer that had a clean history. Unless of course the damage repaired vehicle was, despite its mishap, the best vehicle regardless. Each and every scenario is different, and must be judged as so. Keep an open mind. Do your homework. Inspect thoroughly, would be my advice, when buying any vehicle. More so if it's on, or been on the 'hit list'.
It's more important in my opinion to know how well the vehicle has been repaired. It helps more if the vehicles damage is know previous to the repair. I wouldn't walk away from a damage repaired properly vehicle unless the price was close enough to a similar vehicle on offer that had a clean history. Unless of course the damage repaired vehicle was, despite its mishap, the best vehicle regardless. Each and every scenario is different, and must be judged as so. Keep an open mind. Do your homework. Inspect thoroughly, would be my advice, when buying any vehicle. More so if it's on, or been on the 'hit list'.
RUSSELLM said:
RUSSELLM said:
There's another 90 cars in the classifieds to look at
If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I take that back.If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I've just realised that the OP is on about the Ad that has the title "Cat C/D repaired"
You must have been in total shock, when you found out he wasn't lying.
Whatever drew you towards that advert ? Why don't you pick out one of the other cars listed that aren't on the register.
I'm a firm believer that there's two sides to every story. I'd have loved to have heard that conversation
) has an axe to grind with the seller of the car and by posting is trying to 'spoil' the sale? Or am I just a cynic?RUSSELLM said:
RUSSELLM said:
There's another 90 cars in the classifieds to look at
If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I take that back.If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I've just realised that the OP is on about the Ad that has the title "Cat C/D repaired"
You must have been in total shock, when you found out he wasn't lying.
Whatever drew you towards that advert ? Why don't you pick out one of the other cars listed that aren't on the register.
I'm a firm believer that there's two sides to every story. I'd have loved to have heard that conversation
A slightly bizarre experience I agree. But while his attitude does appear to have been a little snooty and defensive, I can't understand why, after doing so much research on PH, you weeded out all the non-damage-repaired cars and went for the car in question!!
I don't know what the facts are regarding cat C/D, retention of log-book etc etc. At the end of the day if you want a cheap, late car and are prepared to go damage-repaired, you've got to get down and dirty and inspect the thing yourself. It doesn't matter what the vendor says, I'd only believe my own eyes.
Not all TVR owners are like that, but many will be fiercely defensive of their cars, and will be tired of tyre kickers (I'm not saying you're a tyre kicker - you sound far from it).
I don't know what the facts are regarding cat C/D, retention of log-book etc etc. At the end of the day if you want a cheap, late car and are prepared to go damage-repaired, you've got to get down and dirty and inspect the thing yourself. It doesn't matter what the vendor says, I'd only believe my own eyes.
Not all TVR owners are like that, but many will be fiercely defensive of their cars, and will be tired of tyre kickers (I'm not saying you're a tyre kicker - you sound far from it).
V8 GRF said:
RUSSELLM said:
RUSSELLM said:
There's another 90 cars in the classifieds to look at
If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I take that back.If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I've just realised that the OP is on about the Ad that has the title "Cat C/D repaired"
You must have been in total shock, when you found out he wasn't lying.
Whatever drew you towards that advert ? Why don't you pick out one of the other cars listed that aren't on the register.
I'm a firm believer that there's two sides to every story. I'd have loved to have heard that conversation
) has an axe to grind with the seller of the car and by posting is trying to 'spoil' the sale? Or am I just a cynic?Thank you to the majority of you who replied with encouragement and will take on board your comments.
PMC said:
V8 GRF said:
RUSSELLM said:
RUSSELLM said:
There's another 90 cars in the classifieds to look at
If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I take that back.If it's the ad I think, the seller hasn't mentioned the accident in the advert. What a waste of time, for both buyer & seller. You've got more patience than me. Once I'd got to the "it's on the register" bit, I'd have been moving on.
I've just realised that the OP is on about the Ad that has the title "Cat C/D repaired"
You must have been in total shock, when you found out he wasn't lying.
Whatever drew you towards that advert ? Why don't you pick out one of the other cars listed that aren't on the register.
I'm a firm believer that there's two sides to every story. I'd have loved to have heard that conversation
) has an axe to grind with the seller of the car and by posting is trying to 'spoil' the sale? Or am I just a cynic?Thank you to the majority of you who replied with encouragement and will take on board your comments.
There are 4 cats, A,B,C,D. A car can only be one of those cats ( unless I suppose, it has been written off more than once ? ). They are all "write offs", it just depends on the extent of the damage ( or the cost of repair compared to the value of the car ) and the insurance company who "right it off". ( not very consistent as said above, the same damage could be classed differently by different ins co's ) Cat A & B you are not allowed to repair, cat C & D you are. That is well known.
I only have first hand experience of a cat D car ( not a TVR ) which I owned when someone kindly drove into it. The insurance company wrote it off, and I bought it back from them to repair. They did not ask for the reg document back. ( so I did not have to apply for a new one ) I had to take it to be inspected after the repairs were completed. The point of this post, is that the inspection IS NOT TO ASSESS THE QUALITY OF THE REPAIR. The point of the inspection to make sure it is the same car ( i.e. you havn't stolen a similar one and changed the plates ). Of course someone selling a cat c or D may get an independent inspection done to show prospective buyers that the car was properly repaired. Thats fine, but if someone sais "it has passed the VOSA inspection after being repaired" all that means is that it is the same car as had the accident ( and therefore not probably not recently stolen ). It does not mean that the quality of the repair has been checked or is OK.
As far as I know ( but am willing to be corrected ) when selling a cat C or D, you do NOT have to tell the buyer, but of course, if they ask the question then you have to answer honestly.
I only have first hand experience of a cat D car ( not a TVR ) which I owned when someone kindly drove into it. The insurance company wrote it off, and I bought it back from them to repair. They did not ask for the reg document back. ( so I did not have to apply for a new one ) I had to take it to be inspected after the repairs were completed. The point of this post, is that the inspection IS NOT TO ASSESS THE QUALITY OF THE REPAIR. The point of the inspection to make sure it is the same car ( i.e. you havn't stolen a similar one and changed the plates ). Of course someone selling a cat c or D may get an independent inspection done to show prospective buyers that the car was properly repaired. Thats fine, but if someone sais "it has passed the VOSA inspection after being repaired" all that means is that it is the same car as had the accident ( and therefore not probably not recently stolen ). It does not mean that the quality of the repair has been checked or is OK.
As far as I know ( but am willing to be corrected ) when selling a cat C or D, you do NOT have to tell the buyer, but of course, if they ask the question then you have to answer honestly.
BIG DUNC said:
There are 4 cats, A,B,C,D. A car can only be one of those cats ( unless I suppose, it has been written off more than once ? ). They are all "write offs", it just depends on the extent of the damage ( or the cost of repair compared to the value of the car ) and the insurance company who "right it off". ( not very consistent as said above, the same damage could be classed differently by different ins co's ) Cat A & B you are not allowed to repair, cat C & D you are. That is well known.
I only have first hand experience of a cat D car ( not a TVR ) which I owned when someone kindly drove into it. The insurance company wrote it off, and I bought it back from them to repair. They did not ask for the reg document back. ( so I did not have to apply for a new one ) I had to take it to be inspected after the repairs were completed. The point of this post, is that the inspection IS NOT TO ASSESS THE QUALITY OF THE REPAIR. The point of the inspection to make sure it is the same car ( i.e. you havn't stolen a similar one and changed the plates ). Of course someone selling a cat c or D may get an independent inspection done to show prospective buyers that the car was properly repaired. Thats fine, but if someone sais "it has passed the VOSA inspection after being repaired" all that means is that it is the same car as had the accident ( and therefore not probably not recently stolen ). It does not mean that the quality of the repair has been checked or is OK.
As far as I know ( but am willing to be corrected ) when selling a cat C or D, you do NOT have to tell the buyer, but of course, if they ask the question then you have to answer honestly.
Thank you very much for your very interesting and helpful reply. Much appreciated.I only have first hand experience of a cat D car ( not a TVR ) which I owned when someone kindly drove into it. The insurance company wrote it off, and I bought it back from them to repair. They did not ask for the reg document back. ( so I did not have to apply for a new one ) I had to take it to be inspected after the repairs were completed. The point of this post, is that the inspection IS NOT TO ASSESS THE QUALITY OF THE REPAIR. The point of the inspection to make sure it is the same car ( i.e. you havn't stolen a similar one and changed the plates ). Of course someone selling a cat c or D may get an independent inspection done to show prospective buyers that the car was properly repaired. Thats fine, but if someone sais "it has passed the VOSA inspection after being repaired" all that means is that it is the same car as had the accident ( and therefore not probably not recently stolen ). It does not mean that the quality of the repair has been checked or is OK.
As far as I know ( but am willing to be corrected ) when selling a cat C or D, you do NOT have to tell the buyer, but of course, if they ask the question then you have to answer honestly.
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