French Holiday Nightmare
Discussion
A few of you may remember my post titled ‘TVR in France’, asking advice on driving in France and where to go…..well I’ve been and know I’m back with an injured girlfriend and no Cerbera.
We arrived in France and drove down to the Tours area. The drive down was glorious. Perfect roads and perfect weather. 2 days into the holiday we popped out for dinner in Cenonceux (SP?). After a nice evening we decided to go back to our B&B. What happened next is the stuff of nightmares. Please understand that the detail that I give is not to glorify the night’s events, but is given to provide clarity of the incident and hopefully help other piston headers understand what happened and give advice.
Basically I missed my junction and continued driving until I could find a suitable point to turn around. We where travelling through a village at about 10:30 pm on a road with street lights, which was subject to a 50KPH limit. Visibility was clear and the weather was dry and hot. After driving for a few minutes I turned a right hand corner and found about 300 yards of straight and clear road. I pulled over onto the gravel on the right hand side of the road about a hundred yards after the corner. The road was clear so I began a 3 point turn. I pulled hard left, which put me across the road at about 70-90 degrees to the direction of travel. I checked left and right and noticed that the corner was beginning to light up with an approaching cars lights. I could not see the car, just the illumination of the corner. I turned hard right and reversed which angled me slightly towards the corner and still left me across the road. Before engaging first to pull away in the opposite direction I checked left and to my horror the on coming car was now about 2 or 3 meters from the side of my car and travelling at speed. The impact was horrific. The car hit the passenger side of my car directly between the wheels and pushed us about 30 yards down the road. The other car was deflected and hit a wall where it just bounced of the rev limiter for the next couple of minutes. After lots of screaming from my girlfriend and fears about the petrol tank in the boot of the cerbera and the other car (about 5 yards away) bouncing off the rev limiter, I decided to pull my girlfriend out of the car. I know this is a 1st aid cardinal sin but it seemed like the best thing to do at the time. So I pulled her out and out her on the side of the road and went to the other car to take the keys out. The other driver was unconscious. He was wearing a seatbelt but had still collapsed the steering wheel of his car and his head had cracked the windscreen!
Anyway, to cut a long story short…Rachel has broken hips, the other guy is OK. We spent 5 days in a French hospital before being repatriated by ambulance to the UK. Rach is now recovering in hospital. The prognosis is good and hopefully she will be up and about in about a month. Looking at the pics of the car I can’t believe how lucky we have been. I’m just so happy that she is OK.
I guess I’d like to ask a few questions…..
Does anybody think, given the detail above, that I was stupid to make the turn? I was of the opinion that it was safe to do it and I don’t consider myself a reckless driver (very subjective I know). I just don’t understand why this guy did not stop. He drove towards us for at least a hundred yards with headlights on the car, on a road with street lights! Why couldn’t he see us. FYI: He was not over the limit, did not brake or swerve and told the police that he could not see the car!
I also think this guy was travelling far faster then 50kph. Just looking at the pics of damage from both cars and the fact that he covered the ground so quickly leads me to believe this.
Also, I’m not sure of my legal situation (insurance company helping me on this). The police are trying to prosecute me in line with an obscure French law. If you are executing a manover and see another car or its headlights, you are meant to stop. If I had done so I would have blocked the carriageway, in itself reason enough not to stop! I have contested this as prosecution will mean liability for the accident.
Finally……I have pics of the damage but don’t want to post them without first asking you guys for permission. If you guys don’t mind looking at them I would be grateful to get PROFESSIONAL opinions of the speed required to cause such damage and also understand if my car is a right off (hopefully it is!). If you guys don’t mind seeing the pics (no blood or gore), then can somebody post them for me?
Thanks in advance for reading this, its been a bit drawn out and poorly written but I’m not exactly in the mood to construct a grammatically correct and well written account of the evening events!
Thanks,
Rob
We arrived in France and drove down to the Tours area. The drive down was glorious. Perfect roads and perfect weather. 2 days into the holiday we popped out for dinner in Cenonceux (SP?). After a nice evening we decided to go back to our B&B. What happened next is the stuff of nightmares. Please understand that the detail that I give is not to glorify the night’s events, but is given to provide clarity of the incident and hopefully help other piston headers understand what happened and give advice.
Basically I missed my junction and continued driving until I could find a suitable point to turn around. We where travelling through a village at about 10:30 pm on a road with street lights, which was subject to a 50KPH limit. Visibility was clear and the weather was dry and hot. After driving for a few minutes I turned a right hand corner and found about 300 yards of straight and clear road. I pulled over onto the gravel on the right hand side of the road about a hundred yards after the corner. The road was clear so I began a 3 point turn. I pulled hard left, which put me across the road at about 70-90 degrees to the direction of travel. I checked left and right and noticed that the corner was beginning to light up with an approaching cars lights. I could not see the car, just the illumination of the corner. I turned hard right and reversed which angled me slightly towards the corner and still left me across the road. Before engaging first to pull away in the opposite direction I checked left and to my horror the on coming car was now about 2 or 3 meters from the side of my car and travelling at speed. The impact was horrific. The car hit the passenger side of my car directly between the wheels and pushed us about 30 yards down the road. The other car was deflected and hit a wall where it just bounced of the rev limiter for the next couple of minutes. After lots of screaming from my girlfriend and fears about the petrol tank in the boot of the cerbera and the other car (about 5 yards away) bouncing off the rev limiter, I decided to pull my girlfriend out of the car. I know this is a 1st aid cardinal sin but it seemed like the best thing to do at the time. So I pulled her out and out her on the side of the road and went to the other car to take the keys out. The other driver was unconscious. He was wearing a seatbelt but had still collapsed the steering wheel of his car and his head had cracked the windscreen!
Anyway, to cut a long story short…Rachel has broken hips, the other guy is OK. We spent 5 days in a French hospital before being repatriated by ambulance to the UK. Rach is now recovering in hospital. The prognosis is good and hopefully she will be up and about in about a month. Looking at the pics of the car I can’t believe how lucky we have been. I’m just so happy that she is OK.
I guess I’d like to ask a few questions…..
Does anybody think, given the detail above, that I was stupid to make the turn? I was of the opinion that it was safe to do it and I don’t consider myself a reckless driver (very subjective I know). I just don’t understand why this guy did not stop. He drove towards us for at least a hundred yards with headlights on the car, on a road with street lights! Why couldn’t he see us. FYI: He was not over the limit, did not brake or swerve and told the police that he could not see the car!
I also think this guy was travelling far faster then 50kph. Just looking at the pics of damage from both cars and the fact that he covered the ground so quickly leads me to believe this.
Also, I’m not sure of my legal situation (insurance company helping me on this). The police are trying to prosecute me in line with an obscure French law. If you are executing a manover and see another car or its headlights, you are meant to stop. If I had done so I would have blocked the carriageway, in itself reason enough not to stop! I have contested this as prosecution will mean liability for the accident.
Finally……I have pics of the damage but don’t want to post them without first asking you guys for permission. If you guys don’t mind looking at them I would be grateful to get PROFESSIONAL opinions of the speed required to cause such damage and also understand if my car is a right off (hopefully it is!). If you guys don’t mind seeing the pics (no blood or gore), then can somebody post them for me?
Thanks in advance for reading this, its been a bit drawn out and poorly written but I’m not exactly in the mood to construct a grammatically correct and well written account of the evening events!
Thanks,
Rob
Bob, I am very sorry for you.
Great to hear your girl will be fine soon, that´s most important.
That could have ended much worse.
I guess both drivers are to blame.
You could have gone for a saver place to turn, we all know a TVR is not that car for a fast turn (reverse is sometimes tricky and the turncircle isn´t great at all). I assume you didn´t know that road as well and you couldn´t exactly judge how fast oncoming traffic could approach.
Probably that all speaks against you on court.
On the other side you were hit by - what seems to me - the one and only French driver who does not speed.
Sadly you will never know if there had Alkohol or Drugs
their part as I am quite sure that police did blame you immediately and of course don´t blame a probably local Frenchman, whom or his relatives they may know. Live is never fair and it is most likely that the accident records by police are not made to your benefit, especially if your French is not that fluish as well.
Good that you are all back home again and it seems, that your insurance company will have to pay the french guy and I hope you will get your own car paid as well.
Your next holiday isn´t going to be France again?
Martin
Great to hear your girl will be fine soon, that´s most important.
That could have ended much worse.
I guess both drivers are to blame.
You could have gone for a saver place to turn, we all know a TVR is not that car for a fast turn (reverse is sometimes tricky and the turncircle isn´t great at all). I assume you didn´t know that road as well and you couldn´t exactly judge how fast oncoming traffic could approach.
Probably that all speaks against you on court.
On the other side you were hit by - what seems to me - the one and only French driver who does not speed.
Sadly you will never know if there had Alkohol or Drugs
their part as I am quite sure that police did blame you immediately and of course don´t blame a probably local Frenchman, whom or his relatives they may know. Live is never fair and it is most likely that the accident records by police are not made to your benefit, especially if your French is not that fluish as well.
Good that you are all back home again and it seems, that your insurance company will have to pay the french guy and I hope you will get your own car paid as well.
Your next holiday isn´t going to be France again?
Martin
Sorry to hear of this 
If someone can post the pics I know a man who can from the point of view of impact speeds (although how the police can have a prayer of prosecution if they didn't take measurements on the scene I'm not sure 
) his opinions being frequently used as expert witness testimony.
If someone can post the pics I know a man who can from the point of view of impact speeds (although how the police can have a prayer of prosecution if they didn't take measurements on the scene I'm not sure ) his opinions being frequently used as expert witness testimony.Rob, so very sorry to hear about this and especially the injuries.
I hope Rachel makes a quick recovery with the ribs, I know it's
very painful having done it.
There certainly seems something that does not fit here.
The turning circle of the Cerbera is poor so a manoeuvre would
take longer and if I recall your car is grey, which would make
it harder to see, but for the guy to not have braked (did he
even swerve?) sounds very odd?
Could he possibly have been falling asleep at the wheel?
Where was he coming from, how long had he been driving?
The pictures may off course offer more clues and if it
helps, I'll house them at my site and link to it from here.
Once again Rob, so sorry to have heard this news, worrying too
as we'd planned to take ours to France at one stage.
Please keep us posted and if I can do anything to help
(not sure what) just let me know.
Best wishes to you and your girlfriend.
Graham
TCR The Cerbera Register
www.TVR-Cerbera.com
I hope Rachel makes a quick recovery with the ribs, I know it's
very painful having done it.
There certainly seems something that does not fit here.
The turning circle of the Cerbera is poor so a manoeuvre would
take longer and if I recall your car is grey, which would make
it harder to see, but for the guy to not have braked (did he
even swerve?) sounds very odd?
Could he possibly have been falling asleep at the wheel?
Where was he coming from, how long had he been driving?
The pictures may off course offer more clues and if it
helps, I'll house them at my site and link to it from here.
Once again Rob, so sorry to have heard this news, worrying too
as we'd planned to take ours to France at one stage.
Please keep us posted and if I can do anything to help
(not sure what) just let me know.
Best wishes to you and your girlfriend.
Graham
TCR The Cerbera Register
www.TVR-Cerbera.com
GCerbera said:
There certainly seems something that does not fit here.
The turning circle of the Cerbera is poor so a manoeuvre would
take longer and if I recall your car is grey, which would make
it harder to see, but for the guy to not have braked (did he
even swerve?) sounds very odd?
Could he possibly have been falling asleep at the wheel?
Where was he coming from, how long had he been driving?
Yep, I understand that the car would be harder to see but the street had lights. Even without lights on his car he should have seen us.
He did not break, he did no even swerve! I don't think he was asleep as he had just negotiated a corner.
Also, YHM re hosting the pics.
Thanks,
Rob
Hi Folks,
Here is a link (kindly hosted by GCERBERA) to some pics of my car and the other car involved. Please take a look if you think you can comment on wether the car is a right off or if you can form an opinion on the speeds involed.
Cheers,
Rob
www.aauk.biz/Cerbera/accident.htm
Edited because I'm a bit stupid today.
>> Edited by rjben on Monday 11th August 14:09
Here is a link (kindly hosted by GCERBERA) to some pics of my car and the other car involved. Please take a look if you think you can comment on wether the car is a right off or if you can form an opinion on the speeds involed.
Cheers,
Rob
www.aauk.biz/Cerbera/accident.htm
Edited because I'm a bit stupid today.
>> Edited by rjben on Monday 11th August 14:09
Nasty accident - I hope you both recover quickly.
Looking at the pictures in my personal opinion (no crash test expert) this was not an esp. high speed impact. The damage to the white Clio is not great - and they are not strong cars, plus although your passenger did get injured the damage to the Cerbera looks quite small too (what are the chassis rails like underneath?). It looks like the door impact bar saved her from a far more serious injury.
Maybe drop the clutch and do a 180 next time eh?
Looking at the pictures in my personal opinion (no crash test expert) this was not an esp. high speed impact. The damage to the white Clio is not great - and they are not strong cars, plus although your passenger did get injured the damage to the Cerbera looks quite small too (what are the chassis rails like underneath?). It looks like the door impact bar saved her from a far more serious injury.
Maybe drop the clutch and do a 180 next time eh?
Ouch. Glad to hear there's no lasting damage to life and limb. Get well soon! Good to see what protection there is inside there, and I looks like it worked quite well too.
Personally, I wouldn't be too happy if the insurance company didn't call it a write-off. I'd be amazed if the chassis hasn't got rather bent beyond help. Not that I'm any authority.
As for the Clio, I was tempted to say that it doesn't look like a lot of damage, but then I though about my head-on (driver wing to driver wing) closing at a minimum of 60mph. That only pushed stuff back to the rear of the wheelarch and there was a much smaller area of impact.
Again, I'm no expert, but unless you were travelling sideways at about 30mph, I would guess that he was carrying a full 50.
Ugh. My best wishes to you Good Lady for a swift recovery.
I hope your insurance company consider it worth putting up a fight, personally. The Clio driver could not possibly have T-boned you without serious lack of due care and attention. You must have been practically stationary at the time. It is hard to understand how being almost stationary you could have been at fault...
Not being an expert I can't comment properly - but in my view I would encourage your insurance people to fight it all the way.
Let me put it this way.
A Clio driver has a head on, that's head on, collision with the car in front, T-boning it, seriously injuring one of the occupants. If it ends up as being *your* fault I'd say that the legal system was being partisan in the extreme...
I hope your insurance company consider it worth putting up a fight, personally. The Clio driver could not possibly have T-boned you without serious lack of due care and attention. You must have been practically stationary at the time. It is hard to understand how being almost stationary you could have been at fault...
Not being an expert I can't comment properly - but in my view I would encourage your insurance people to fight it all the way.
Let me put it this way.
A Clio driver has a head on, that's head on, collision with the car in front, T-boning it, seriously injuring one of the occupants. If it ends up as being *your* fault I'd say that the legal system was being partisan in the extreme...
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