Air/Fuel Ratio Guages
Discussion
Some will be along to say don't bother, but as part of converting to an aftermarket ECU I first installed an Innovate WB controller/sensor with an XD1 gauge. I wanted to use the sensor to run the ECU in closed loop/adaptive and the gauge seemed an obvious add-on as there was a serial output available to drive it in real time. By putting WB stuff in place ahead of the ECU conversion, I have a good idea now of what the stock ECU was doing in daily use and it has enabled me to get up and running quicker and with more confidence than I might otherwise have had ('though searches will show there were some electrical problems along the way). An example is that by the end of the first decent run I did, I had consistent AFR readings on a par with what I had been seeing previously and know I'm unlikely to be harming anything.
I got the XD1 for the right price but there are less featured alternatives available and so far I have been pleased with the Innovate stuff although I have read one or two reliability/accuracy criticisms so won't actively recommend until I've compared its output with an independent probe (on a rolling road, say) and have some more miles in (having said that, the sensor has been in since the New Year, and I started the ECU con at Easter). The only issue I have is that there is a difference between the gauge reading (off the serial feed) and the analogue linked reading on the PC via the ECU... seems a consistent difference and relying on Bill Shurvinton's advice that the gaugue is likely to be accurate, I'm assuming it's a grounding issue.
I got the XD1 for the right price but there are less featured alternatives available and so far I have been pleased with the Innovate stuff although I have read one or two reliability/accuracy criticisms so won't actively recommend until I've compared its output with an independent probe (on a rolling road, say) and have some more miles in (having said that, the sensor has been in since the New Year, and I started the ECU con at Easter). The only issue I have is that there is a difference between the gauge reading (off the serial feed) and the analogue linked reading on the PC via the ECU... seems a consistent difference and relying on Bill Shurvinton's advice that the gaugue is likely to be accurate, I'm assuming it's a grounding issue.
KMS do one that can be part of their management system. Try looking for the UEGO display on http://www.enginemanagement.co.uk/technical.asp or http://kms.vankronenburg.nl
Ian.
Ian.
Pupp - the issue sounds like a calibration issue .. the Emerald probably needs configuring to be the same as the Innovate.
Bluebootle - I have a zeitronic one on mine ..they sell the boss for the exhaust, 5 wire bosch wideband and controller - with either a display (LCD) or guage.
With the dollar at 2 to the pound .. then it makes sense to buy from the USA.
http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/Products.htm
Like the Innovate - they are stand alone and can be used without a new engine management system or used as it's input. Your choice.
Bluebootle - I have a zeitronic one on mine ..they sell the boss for the exhaust, 5 wire bosch wideband and controller - with either a display (LCD) or guage.
With the dollar at 2 to the pound .. then it makes sense to buy from the USA.
http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/Products.htm
Like the Innovate - they are stand alone and can be used without a new engine management system or used as it's input. Your choice.
Edited by rev-erend on Wednesday 23 April 22:10
rev-erend said:
Pupp - the issue sounds like a calibration issue .. the Emerald probably needs configuring to be the same as the Innovate.
They are configured on the same basis... I had followed the Emerald recommendation of narrowing the range (and increasing resolution) for the effective AFR range between 11.0 and 16.0 as between controller and ECU via the analogue input and had assumed the gauge would mirror the readings unless it was outside that assigned range. I'm sure Bill is right in that it will prove to be a difference in ground potential but the crucial Q is which can I rely on... not worried which especially as the other can be corrected but would like a verified reference to map from. Thanks for the response chaps, you have all confirmed to me that wideband is the way to go despite the myriad of £50 gauges on ebay.
The Zeitronix ZT-2 + ZR-2 Multi guage with the ability for egt readout is good, thanks for that link Rev-erend. I was going to go for the Innovate XD-16 until I saw that.
The KMS Wideband kit gets killed by the dollar exchange rate plus no 52mm guage (i want discrete)
The VEMS was already on my shortlist but i wanted a more visual gauge like the others.
The Stack Wideband guage, Auto Meter & AEM wideband kit both look good but lacks the functions of the above, for similar money.
The Zeitronix ZT-2 + ZR-2 Multi guage with the ability for egt readout is good, thanks for that link Rev-erend. I was going to go for the Innovate XD-16 until I saw that.
The KMS Wideband kit gets killed by the dollar exchange rate plus no 52mm guage (i want discrete)
The VEMS was already on my shortlist but i wanted a more visual gauge like the others.
The Stack Wideband guage, Auto Meter & AEM wideband kit both look good but lacks the functions of the above, for similar money.
Edited by Bluebottle on Friday 25th April 17:46
I fitted the AUTO Meter gauge and it works extremely well in our supercharged engine cars, the readings being validated for accuracy when on the dyno. To achieve accurate results the pre cats were removed and the sensor fitted to the RH exhaust manifold in the area of the pre cats, this giving an indication of what’s happening with 4 cylinders. You have to assume the LH bank is doing something similar. If leaving the cats in and fitting after the cats, the readings will change as it is influenced by the cats and all that plutonium.
For added security, we also fitted an EGT to the left bank on No7 cylinder manifold where it is hottest due to the sequential firing of No5 and No7 cylinders. Overall this gave us signals from each bank of cylinders and a better overview of what the engine is doing.
Out of interest our Auto Meter gauges are analogue and not digital, this to me being very easy to see when driving at speed and on track. You don’t 'read' the data but observe it, the same as primary instrumentation. AF shows 14.7 under low/moderate loads and 12.2 under full load, giving confidence to the fuel setup. The gauge comes into its own if used in conjunction with an adjustable fuel regulator where fuelling can be tweaked when on or off track.
I found with digital output you have to read the numbers, this takes time, becomes a distraction and could be a safety issue at track speeds. A bit like Satnav, but who needs that on track. If buying digital ensure you have 'green/red' zone illumination to give a good visual signal.
I am interested of your opinions and experience reading analogue or digital outputs of what could be critical gauges. Any thoughts?
For added security, we also fitted an EGT to the left bank on No7 cylinder manifold where it is hottest due to the sequential firing of No5 and No7 cylinders. Overall this gave us signals from each bank of cylinders and a better overview of what the engine is doing.
Out of interest our Auto Meter gauges are analogue and not digital, this to me being very easy to see when driving at speed and on track. You don’t 'read' the data but observe it, the same as primary instrumentation. AF shows 14.7 under low/moderate loads and 12.2 under full load, giving confidence to the fuel setup. The gauge comes into its own if used in conjunction with an adjustable fuel regulator where fuelling can be tweaked when on or off track.
I found with digital output you have to read the numbers, this takes time, becomes a distraction and could be a safety issue at track speeds. A bit like Satnav, but who needs that on track. If buying digital ensure you have 'green/red' zone illumination to give a good visual signal.
I am interested of your opinions and experience reading analogue or digital outputs of what could be critical gauges. Any thoughts?
Sorry, in my previous message I mentioned Plutonium in the cats when I meant to write Platinum. As we all know you get a bigger bang with Plutonium!
Will try to post some pics of sensors shortly. If fitting EGT the sensor is best placed adjacent to either No 5 cylinder manifold after the outlet bend with sensor fitted in a vertical downwards position as the upper section of the exhaust is obscured by No 7 exhaust tube, alternatively place vertically upwards on No 7 outlet after the bend where it is easier to access. Theoretically No5 will be hotter than No7, as it has No3 and No7 on either side and will receive more heat soak. I used No 7 for ease of access.
AF wideband lambda is mounted vertically in the centre of the pre cat area (if removing the Cats), otherwise fit in the proximity of the existing sensors, best avoiding the inside of exhaust bends.
If planning to fit a supercharger, to avoid possible conflict only use the RH bank for the Lambda as it gets a bit busy on the LHS with the AFM and Supercharger package.
Will try to post some pics of sensors shortly. If fitting EGT the sensor is best placed adjacent to either No 5 cylinder manifold after the outlet bend with sensor fitted in a vertical downwards position as the upper section of the exhaust is obscured by No 7 exhaust tube, alternatively place vertically upwards on No 7 outlet after the bend where it is easier to access. Theoretically No5 will be hotter than No7, as it has No3 and No7 on either side and will receive more heat soak. I used No 7 for ease of access.
AF wideband lambda is mounted vertically in the centre of the pre cat area (if removing the Cats), otherwise fit in the proximity of the existing sensors, best avoiding the inside of exhaust bends.
If planning to fit a supercharger, to avoid possible conflict only use the RH bank for the Lambda as it gets a bit busy on the LHS with the AFM and Supercharger package.
EGT ideally should be very close to the heads. I got some reasonable readings just by strapping a K type thermocouple to the header using a jubilee clip, but I think a tube welded onto the outside that a thermocouple could be inserted as required would give a more accurate reading. For permanent use it would need a bung and thermocouple with a threaded boss, this would let you put the thermocouple right in the gas stream for maximum accuracy. How often do you actually need that though? The only reason I needed it was to test for charge blow-through on boost at low revs, and that's not something that would require constant monitoring.
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